Shouldve Taken The Black Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 On 27/08/2017 at 2:42 AM, Livesundersink said: Renly was far from the political mastermind he believed himself to be Once again, I find myself standing up for Renly. His plan was actually pretty sound. He knew that if Cersei got her way he was on the way out, and so he set about removing her, in quite a clever manner. Probably the best way to manipulate Robert was to appeal to his sexual appetite, so Renly probably thought the plot was, while not a guaranteed success, certainly a good one. We see Robert talking about what Renly told him about Margaery to Ned, so obviously he’d got in Robert’s head to some degree. Given the obvious deterioration of Robert’s marriage, to the point that he clearly hated Cersei, it must have seemed like a fair bet. Added to that, who better than the Tyrells to turn to if Tywin suddenly decided to call in the Crown’s debts? They might actually be rich enough to extend a new loan to cover them. They’re also a military power in their own right, and united with the Stormlands, fielded by far the largest army in the WOTFK. Combined with the North, the Crownlands, and possibly the Riverlands and the Vale as well, Tywin would stand no chance. The one point we don’t know is whether there was an added element in the plot to topple Cersei. Renly was not aware of the twincest, and doesn’t appear to have had any charges to lay against her. However, he may have reckoned that the key was for Robert to become sick of the sight of her (job done), convince him he should abandon her for Margaery (work in progress), and then they could trump up whatever charges they felt like. It was not beneath Renly just to make something up, or beyond Robert to pretend to believe something because he wanted to. Of all the plans on how to deal with the Lannisters, Renly’s was by far the best. Compared to Stannis just whining about his rights, then running off to Dragonstone and not telling anyone what he found out until after Robert was dead and the allegation became meaningless, or Ned Miss Marpling it round Kings Landing, this is proper House of Cards level thinking. Renly was far from flawless, but he at least played the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angel Eyes Posted February 1, 2018 Author Share Posted February 1, 2018 16 hours ago, goldenmaps said: It was just one of the plans that the Tyrells had to make Marg queen. I don't think Renly thought that she looked like Lyanna. Marg is pretty, so even if she doesn't look like a Stark, they thought it wouldn't matter. As I recall, Viserys was still alive and Robert was terrified about the Targs. He had spies and didn't like that Dany married Drogo. I thought that one of the reasons he married Cersei was to bind the Lannisters to the crown. They would need a good reason to set Cersei aside. Anyway, the only woman who looked like Lyanna was Arya. If Renly didn’t think Margaery looked by Lyanna, why would he ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 48 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said: If Renly didn’t think Margaery looked by Lyanna, why would he ask? You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Sir Isaac Newton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I suppose it's possible Ned just denied it to keep Lyanna out of Robert's mind for other reasons close to him. Rather doubt that was it though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenmaps Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 7 hours ago, Angel Eyes said: If Renly didn’t think Margaery looked by Lyanna, why would he ask? 7 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said: You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Sir Isaac Newton Exactly. It was to show that the Tyrells were already plotting, that Cersei was correct that people were already manuvering against her and that Robert will fall for their schemes. I don’t think the Tyrells could have influenced Robert. I think the only people who can influence Robert was Jon Arryn or Ned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livesundersink Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 On 2/2/2018 at 2:54 AM, Angel Eyes said: If Renly didn’t think Margaery looked by Lyanna, why would he ask? Maybe because it is possible that he never met Lyanna On 2/2/2018 at 1:17 AM, Shouldve Taken The Black said: Once again, I find myself standing up for Renly. His plan was actually pretty sound. He knew that if Cersei got her way he was on the way out, and so he set about removing her, in quite a clever manner. Probably the best way to manipulate Robert was to appeal to his sexual appetite, so Renly probably thought the plot was, while not a guaranteed success, certainly a good one. We see Robert talking about what Renly told him about Margaery to Ned, so obviously he’d got in Robert’s head to some degree. Given the obvious deterioration of Robert’s marriage, to the point that he clearly hated Cersei, it must have seemed like a fair bet. Added to that, who better than the Tyrells to turn to if Tywin suddenly decided to call in the Crown’s debts? They might actually be rich enough to extend a new loan to cover them. They’re also a military power in their own right, and united with the Stormlands, fielded by far the largest army in the WOTFK. Combined with the North, the Crownlands, and possibly the Riverlands and the Vale as well, Tywin would stand no chance. The one point we don’t know is whether there was an added element in the plot to topple Cersei. Renly was not aware of the twincest, and doesn’t appear to have had any charges to lay against her. However, he may have reckoned that the key was for Robert to become sick of the sight of her (job done), convince him he should abandon her for Margaery (work in progress), and then they could trump up whatever charges they felt like. It was not beneath Renly just to make something up, or beyond Robert to pretend to believe something because he wanted to. Of all the plans on how to deal with the Lannisters, Renly’s was by far the best. Compared to Stannis just whining about his rights, then running off to Dragonstone and not telling anyone what he found out until after Robert was dead and the allegation became meaningless, or Ned Miss Marpling it round Kings Landing, this is proper House of Cards level thinking. Renly was far from flawless, but he at least played the game. A rather well thought out response, i would take my hat off to you except i'm not wearing one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shouldve Taken The Black Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, Livesundersink said: A rather well thought out response, i would take my hat off to you except i'm not wearing one I wouldn't be able to see you do it anyway, so lets both just pretend you did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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