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Theda Baratheon

Outlander II: Sing me a Song...

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So, HE was back and it was amazing... (Episode 4x06 spoilers)

Spoiler

Lord John is truly amazing TV character. I have enjoyed every single moment he has been on screen and I adore how careful writing becomes when he is around. And I especially enjoyed that this episode delved more into Claire/John territory than Jaime being the common denominator in their respective stories.

The confrontation between Claire and John was rather solid, even though it missed some notes. Seeing John all ill and with his heart all there opened in front of Claire was so different from the usual picture we have of him, calm and composed with that twinkle in his eyes when Jaime appears. In this episode he was so devastatingly human and it was painful to see him having to converse with the woman who is having the love he desires so much. 

The best thing is that they are not above hurting each other with the painful truths. Claire, by mentioning Brianna and John, by mentioning the "indecent offer". This "war" for that piece of intimacy, for that piece of Jaime that the other one can't have culminates in the exceptional understanding of each other. 

The unrequited love may be the greatest tragedy and a lot of tears throughout the history has been shed because of it. It is just so sad regardless of the homosexuality which plays a role here. But, that brings a whole new dimension. John's tragedy is not just the fact that he is a homosexual in a period during which it was a capital offence or the love he will never have. Count Black Randall and the entire fantasy, the last of the possibilities one may even somehow conjures up just gets destroyed.

I have no idea what happens to Lord John in the books, but I do hope ends up happy. As happy as he can be, at least.

 

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22 minutes ago, King Roberts beard said:

Claire is starting to annoy me. 

She's so snarky.

I love her. She’s so direct and unflinching in her principles - it means she’s incredibly stubborn which can be annoying but I don’t know if she is snarky 

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I think that she reacted very humanely when she saw John. I don't blame her for lack of tact. She felt threatened and she was ready to defend what she considered was hers.

It reminded me a bit of Catelyn Stark...

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When she said "Because I was born that way" talking about her character, I wanted to believe she was also acknowledging John's nature, too, but I don't think she was, and that disappointed me some.

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19 hours ago, Corvinus said:

When she said "Because I was born that way" talking about her character, I wanted to believe she was also acknowledging John's nature, too, but I don't think she was, and that disappointed me some.

I think she was acknowledging him. 

19 hours ago, Risto said:

I think that she reacted very humanely when she saw John. I don't blame her for lack of tact. She felt threatened and she was ready to defend what she considered was hers.

It reminded me a bit of Catelyn Stark...

I think she was quite tactful really. 

 

Ive been rewatching season one and it’s definitely my favourite - the episodes in Scotland when Claire just wants to escape  and then slowly falls in love with Jamie and I love all the side characters and miss them a lot. 

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10 minutes ago, Martini Sigil said:

I thought so too... I mean there's no way to know for sure.... but that's how I interpreted that. 

Just the choice of words - it was like she was extending an olive branch to him and waiting for him to accept it. 

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On 12/13/2018 at 5:59 PM, Corvinus said:

When she said "Because I was born that way" talking about her character, I wanted to believe she was also acknowledging John's nature, too, but I don't think she was, and that disappointed me some.

I also think she acknowledged him. The thing about John is not his sexuality, but his undying love for her husband. She understands his suffering.

11 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

I think she was quite tactful really. 

I am not so sure. John certainly meant no harm when he mentioned William, and he was right about her being envious of that small part of their shared history. But Claire "reclaimed her territory" by invoking Brianna. And she did that just to point out that as much as John thinks he has of Jaime, she has that. AND MORE. I don't blame her. She acted naturally and it would be truly weird had she acted any other way. That's why I loved this scene. 

11 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

Ive been rewatching season one and it’s definitely my favourite - the episodes in Scotland when Claire just wants to escape  and then slowly falls in love with Jamie and I love all the side characters and miss them a lot. 

I want to do a rewatch of this show, but... So many things on TV, so little time :D

Just remembering Jaime's courtroom scene from Season 1 and his break-in and rescue was SO AMAZING that I may be looking for some time to rewatch the entire thing :D

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13 hours ago, Theda Baratheon said:

Just the choice of words - it was like she was extending an olive branch to him and waiting for him to accept it. 

right... the acting was done with her eyes... what was unsaid was the real message... 

.... but then again, maybe I was just imagining it....lol

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20 hours ago, Risto said:

I also think she acknowledged him. The thing about John is not his sexuality, but his undying love for her husband. She understands his suffering.

I am not so sure. John certainly meant no harm when he mentioned William, and he was right about her being envious of that small part of their shared history. But Claire "reclaimed her territory" by invoking Brianna. And she did that just to point out that as much as John thinks he has of Jaime, she has that. AND MORE. I don't blame her. She acted naturally and it would be truly weird had she acted any other way. That's why I loved this scene. 

I want to do a rewatch of this show, but... So many things on TV, so little time :D

Just remembering Jaime's courtroom scene from Season 1 and his break-in and rescue was SO AMAZING that I may be looking for some time to rewatch the entire thing :D

Yes the devils mark is one of my favourite episodes and also makes me wish that Geillis hadn’t turned out to be such a one dimensional mad woman in the book and show. I loved her in season 1 - she’s an interesting character. 

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I'm in the minority.  Grey bores me down to the soles of my pretty lavender cashmere sox.  :laugh:  However, he is a great friend for those in the wilderness, sending over big boxes of books and surveying instruments and other nice things people don't have in North Carolina in the later part of the 18th century, demonstrating materially the adage that the next best thing to being rich oneself is having rich friends. 

Soze, this latest episode, hmmmmm?

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1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Soze, this latest episode, hmmmmm?

Spoiler

I know you told me before about the jewels being the means of travel, but this is the first time we see someone know to use one in the show. I also find the ease to which people just use the stones to travel through time disconcerting. There should be hundreds, if not thousands of travelers going about, if all it takes is some precious stone.

I loved people inquiring about Brianna's accent. Are you a lowlander? Ha. 

The bits with Steve Bonnett were intense.

 

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1 hour ago, Zorral said:

I'm in the minority.  Grey bores me down to the soles of my pretty lavender cashmere sox.  :laugh: 

On one hand, I am sad because for me, he is such a wonderful character. On the other, I am so amused by your lavender socks :D

2 hours ago, Zorral said:

However, he is a great friend for those in the wilderness, sending over big boxes of books and surveying instruments and other nice things people don't have in North Carolina in the later part of the 18th century, demonstrating materially the adage that the next best thing to being rich oneself is having rich friends. 

Truer words could not have been said! :D

The last episode...

Spoiler

It was a bit meandering. There is always, not just in Outlander, but in all serialized TV shows, a moment when the plot starts to wander a bit, progressing but not actually leading to somewhere. Yes, I understand how big the passing of both Brianna and Roger through stones was, and there were some great parallels done in this episode. I was so sorry not to see Jenny in this episode. I expected Bonnet to have the bigger role and indeed he has. Overall, it was a bit slow, but I liked it. Especially with the reappearance of Tobias Menzies. 

BTW, does the obituary mentions Claire by name? Did Frank find out Claire would eventually return to Jaime?

 

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4 minutes ago, Risto said:

 

  Hide contents

BTW, does the obituary mentions Claire by name? Did Frank find out Claire would eventually return to Jaime?

 

Spoiler

Yes, I believe it does. That's what got him depressed. He likely assumed Claire would leave him. I wonder how Brianna found out. Maybe she was going through his things, and recalled that night and how upset he was, so she paid attention to that document.

 

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8 minutes ago, Risto said:
Quote

On one hand, I am sad because for me, he is such a wonderful character. On the other, I am so amused by your lavender socks :D

Truer words could not have been said! :D

The last episode...

I'll have you know I acquired those sox in a Heathrow Airport shop!  :laugh:

Quote
  Hide contents

It was a bit meandering. There is always, not just in Outlander, but in all serialized TV shows, a moment when the plot starts to wander a bit, progressing but not actually leading to somewhere. Yes, I understand how big the passing of both Brianna and Roger through stones was, and there were some great parallels done in this episode. I was so sorry not to see Jenny in this episode. I expected Bonnet to have the bigger role and indeed he has. Overall, it was a bit slow, but I liked it. Especially with the reappearance of Tobias Menzies. 

BTW, does the obituary mentions Claire by name? Did Frank find out Claire would eventually return to Jaime?

 

Spoiler

Isn't that part of the Claire - Frank scenes back in the day?

See: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/outlander-season-4-episode-7-down-the-rabbit-hole-recap-frank-returns-tobias-menzies-sophie-skelton

As far as Brianna learning these things, Roger plays a big role.

 

 

Edited by Zorral

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3 hours ago, Zorral said:

I'll have you know I acquired those sox in a Heathrow Airport shop!  :laugh:

  Hide contents

Isn't that part of the Claire - Frank scenes back in the day?

See: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2018/12/outlander-season-4-episode-7-down-the-rabbit-hole-recap-frank-returns-tobias-menzies-sophie-skelton

As far as Brianna learning these things, Roger plays a big role.

 

 

I am glad you are enjoying it :D 

As for the rest...

Spoiler

I always thought that the scene from Season 3 was about Frank wanting a bit of happiness for him. More tragically, he wanted some happiness for both of them. But, Claire never understood it back in the days. I wonder whether once the family is reunited, it will get mentioned.

 

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28 minutes ago, Risto said:

I am glad you are enjoying it :D 

As for the rest...

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I always thought that the scene from Season 3 was about Frank wanting a bit of happiness for him. More tragically, he wanted some happiness for both of them. But, Claire never understood it back in the days. I wonder whether once the family is reunited, it will get mentioned.

 

Spoiler

Trust me -- Frank never goes away. Any more than Jaimie went away in the Frank and Claire years.  I am speaking of the books here, since I know no more than the rest of you about the tv, which isn't the same, yet is remarkably, especially emotionally, true to what we get in the books.  But the book stuff is crazier and more piling on without revelations as time goes on.  Honestly, after The Firery Cross, I don't know why I bothered. I'm still stuck on Breath of Snow and Ashes, years after I started it.

 

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I love this show, but the amount of unfortunate coincidences that befall these people is beginning to get silly 

Spoiler

in the entire country of Scotland, Brianna just wanders to Loghaire's house....  and of all the boat captains in Scotland, Roger simply bumbles onto Bonnet's?

.... c'mon.... pull the other one. 

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