If Robert Arryn Died of a Fever -

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

1 minute ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

she has the loyalty of the vale, and she is the current ruler. There would be no reason to unseat her until Harry comes of age. Again. Details 

No she doesn't. They followed her because of Robert Arryn. With him gone, they will not follow a madwoman.

[Dorian Martell's son]

19 minutes ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

No she doesn't. They followed her because of Robert Arryn. With him gone, they will not follow a madwoman.

she does. Which is why littlefinger had to arrange a show to get the lords of the vale of his back.  As regent of the vale, there would be no reason to remove her until Harry came of age to rule. Simple as that 

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

52 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

she does. Which is why littlefinger had to arrange a show to get the lords of the vale of his back.  As regent of the vale, there would be no reason to remove her until Harry came of age to rule. Simple as that 

No she doesn't. Their loyalty was to House Arryn. Jon and Robert Arryn are dead.

 

Their reason for deposing her would be that the Vale lords desire to enter war, and she would try and counter that. But without Robert, they have no reason to obey.

 

And Harry is 18 years old by this point.

[Dorian Martell's son]

4 hours ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

No she doesn't. Their loyalty was to House Arryn. Jon and Robert Arryn are dead.

Their reason for deposing her would be that the Vale lords desire to enter war, and she would try and counter that. But without Robert, they have no reason to obey.

And Harry is 18 years old by this point.

she is married into the Arryn family. Her name is not Lysa Tully in the first book. It is Lysa Arryn. Besides, Petyr taking power in the vale is the necessary plot and GRRM would write a suitable power grab for him 

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

she is married into the Arryn family. Her name is not Lysa Tully in the first book. It is Lysa Arryn. Besides, Petyr taking power in the vale is the necessary plot and GRRM would write a suitable power grab for him 

GRRM would simply have Lysa marry Harrold.

But if that doesn't happen, she is deposed, and Harrold takes over.

[Frey Kings]

One big thing I don't like about the plot is lack of information about the hand of the king Jon Arryn, he served for nearly two decades. We are lead to believe he was a competent ruler but everything goes straight to hell after he dies. 

 

I would imagine if Robert died too, the Vale would've gone straight to hell as well. 

[Dorian Martell's son]

16 minutes ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

GRRM would simply have Lysa marry Harrold.

But if that doesn't happen, she is deposed, and Harrold takes over.

I doubt he would marry her to Harry, but he would have her stick around until Harry was able to rule the vale 

 

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

2 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

I doubt he would marry her to Harry, but he would have her stick around until Harry was able to rule the vale 

 

He already is of age. By the time Ned is executed, Harrold is 17-18. And 16 is the age of adulthood in Westeros.

[Frey Kings]

Would Harry the Heir join Robb during the War of the 5k?

[Dorian Martell's son]

4 hours ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

He already is of age. By the time Ned is executed, Harrold is 17-18. And 16 is the age of adulthood in Westeros.

This is not really clear. In feast Petyr suggests that Harry become his ward to be a companion to Bobby. That is not something an adult heir to a kingdom would do.  

[zandru]

9 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

This is not really clear. In feast Petyr suggests that Harry become his ward to be a companion to Bobby. That is not something an adult heir to a kingdom would do.  

Hmmph. As if that would work out. A 20-yo paired with a 7-yo who acts like an infant? If Harry were a girl, he might enjoy playing "Mommy" with little Robin (at least until he tried to suckle off her); as an overly-testosteroned young man, no way. But then, why would Baelish care? He just wants closer control of Harry, right?

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

20 hours ago, zandru said:

Hmmph. As if that would work out. A 20-yo paired with a 7-yo who acts like an infant? If Harry were a girl, he might enjoy playing "Mommy" with little Robin (at least until he tried to suckle off her); as an overly-testosteroned young man, no way. But then, why would Baelish care? He just wants closer control of Harry, right?

 

The amount of plot armor Petyr has.

 

 

As if he could ever control anyone who isn't weak or demented.

[Lion of the West]

I would say that if Robert Arryn died then it would likely be a civil war between those loyal to Harold Hardying and those loyal to Lysa Arryn. Just like the Ladies Dustin, Hornwood and Whent could hold power so I would think that Lysa would want to hold on to power. And there's no way that Littlefinger won't try stick Lysa on the throne and thus use his ways to get support behind Lysa and we can see how well Littlefinger can play the Lords of the Vale when needed.

[Tygett Lannister]

5 hours ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

The amount of plot armor Petyr has.

Petyr's plot armor compared to Dany's or Tyrion's is like Oberyn's armor compared to Mountain's. Only Tyrion's chapters are actually interesting while Dany is cringe and boring.

4 hours ago, LionoftheWest said:

I would say that if Robert Arryn died then it would likely be a civil war between those loyal to Harold Hardying and those loyal to Lysa Arryn. Just like the Ladies Dustin, Hornwood and Whent could hold power so I would think that Lysa would want to hold on to power. And there's no way that Littlefinger won't try stick Lysa on the throne and thus use his ways to get support behind Lysa and we can see how well Littlefinger can play the Lords of the Vale when needed.

This is good idea though Harold still has better claim and as I already said Lysa would probably hide that Robin is dead, while LF could arrange support for Lysa.

[Lion of the West]

9 hours ago, Tygett Lannister said:

This is good idea though Harold still has better claim and as I already said Lysa would probably hide that Robin is dead, while LF could arrange support for Lysa.

To be honest I have no idea who has the better claim between a wife and a niece's son.

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

35 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

To be honest I have no idea who has the better claim between a wife and a niece's son.

In Westeros, it is a matter of blood ties, hence Catelyn not asking to be named heir of Winterfell, and instead suggesting distant Vale cousins.

 

Lysa has no blood ties to house Arryn, so she would be deposed. If she was a competent leader, she might have been able to cultivate a following strong enough to stall her inevitable fall, but she is a madwoman trying to keep a bunch of testosterone filled killers from getting their hands bloodied.

 

She won't last.

[Angel Eyes]

7 minutes ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

In Westeros, it is a matter of blood ties, hence Catelyn not asking to be named heir of Winterfell, and instead suggesting distant Vale cousins.

 

Lysa has no blood ties to house Arryn, so she would be deposed. If she was a competent leader, she might have been able to cultivate a following strong enough to stall her inevitable fall, but she is a madwoman trying to keep a bunch of testosterone filled killers from getting their hands bloodied.

 

She won't last.

How was she able to keep them down?

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

17 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

How was she able to keep them down?

 

In the books? Robert Arryn was alive, making her his regent until he came of age.

 

But in this scenario, the Lords of the Vale would have no reason to follow her ramblings because Jon and Robert Arryn are dead.

 

 

Unless Petyr has godlike plot armor, whatever following he maybe able to gain for her would be miniscule considering her detestable personality, and Petyr's lowbirth. I don't believe he would waste time on such a lost cause. He probably focuses even more on Sansa.

[Lion of the West]

1 hour ago, Daenerys Targaryen's slave said:

In Westeros, it is a matter of blood ties, hence Catelyn not asking to be named heir of Winterfell, and instead suggesting distant Vale cousins.

 

Lysa has no blood ties to house Arryn, so she would be deposed. If she was a competent leader, she might have been able to cultivate a following strong enough to stall her inevitable fall, but she is a madwoman trying to keep a bunch of testosterone filled killers from getting their hands bloodied.

 

She won't last.

Problem is that I don't think its that simple. We have examples of wives ruling after the death of their husbands because a woman enters the House of her husband and so Lysa is as much an Arryn, or possibly more, than Harry the Heir is.

And do note that Lady Lysa has kept these killers at bay for some time and that she is Jon's wife. If loyalty to Jon Arryn was strong enough to keep people in line for the sake of his son, why wouldn't that extend to the sake of his wife? I can perfectly well see that many lords would favor keeping Lysa in power to either stay out of the war or have a shot at ingrating themselves with Lysa or even becoming her heirs.

The Lords of the Vale are not a hive mind, as I think that GRRM himself commented on at some occasion, and they are not all set for another war.

[Daenerys Targaryen's slave]

13 minutes ago, LionoftheWest said:

Problem is that I don't think its that simple. We have examples of wives ruling after the death of their husbands because a woman enters the House of her husband and so Lysa is as much an Arryn, or possibly more, than Harry the Heir is.

And do note that Lady Lysa has kept these killers at bay for some time and that she is Jon's wife. If loyalty to Jon Arryn was strong enough to keep people in line for the sake of his son, why wouldn't that extend to the sake of his wife? I can perfectly well see that many lords would favor keeping Lysa in power to either stay out of the war or have a shot at ingrating themselves with Lysa or even becoming her heirs.

The Lords of the Vale are not a hive mind, as I think that GRRM himself commented on at some occasion, and they are not all set for another war.

 

The main problem is that the Vale is a Kingdom that has been rule by the Arryns for 1000+ years. Tradition means much to the Lord of the Vale.

 

Jon Arryn is dead, Robert Arryn is dead.

 

Keeping Lysa in power accomplishes nothing.  She is not an Arryn. And she is a madwoman.

 

There is someone with Arryn blood and looks, however.  Harold Hardyng.