Non Believers: I'm What's Called a Pessimist

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Dr. Pepper said:

There are a handful of states that have laws on the books that prevent atheists from running for office, probably many more municipalities and counties.  I'm sure they are unenforceable, but they still exist.  It's mostly logistics.  There are probably plenty of atheists in office, but in congress there are none who are open about it.  Even Bernie Sanders danced around the atheism issue during the campaign, which some Democratic staffers even discussing using it against it (thankfully it never came to that).  Peddling words about god is often a plus and even necessary for politicians here.

Whoa really? I thought that had been ruled unconstitutional a long time ago. I guess there are still a lot of dumb laws on the book. Here's my favorite:

Quote

Citizens may not enter Wisconsin with a chicken on their head. A version of the “duck atop his head” cited above. Again, there are no Minnesota laws that prohibit having “a chicken on their head”.

Also, I think it's still technically illegal for women to drive in New Orleans without having a large lantern in front of their car. It's also illegal to eat ice cream in a tub in one state, though I can't remember which one.  

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Whoa really? I thought that had been ruled unconstitutional a long time ago.

Well, they are unconstitutional.  If they're still on the books, that's because they haven't been challenged (at least in a very long time).

[Altherion]

22 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

I'm not sure how this addresses my point. So I'm going to go to bed and look at it again tomorrow.

Your statement was "IMO accepting something that's completely unverifiable and accepting something that has been proven wrong is functionally the same." This is experimentally false: we often take things we cannot verify and build on them (P ?= NP is just one example).

20 hours ago, Stubby said:

I guess it's because the simulation theory just isn't that interesting.

Yes, what it really needs is good story. Once VR becomes a little more common, somebody can make a lot of money off that...

[TrueMetis]

1 hour ago, Altherion said:

Your statement was "IMO accepting something that's completely unverifiable and accepting something that has been proven wrong is functionally the same." This is experimentally false: we often take things we cannot verify and build on them (P ?= NP is just one example).

And now I've been drinking a little bit so am probably not in any better mindset to tackle computer science which I'm not terribly knowledgeable in, but let's do it anyway.

Based on the Wikipedia page you cited this isn't really the same thing. Because the people using that this problem hasn't been solved one way or the other don't need to assume "No NP=complete problem can be solved in polynomial time" is true. They just need to know that since "NP=complete problems can be solved in polynomial time" hasn't been proven true there's no reason not to use NP-complete problems since no one has yet discovered a way to easily solve NP-complete problems.

It also doesn't seem to be unverifiable in the same way religious claims are anyway. This seems to be unverifiable in the same way the earth not being the centre of the universe spent time being unverifiable. Rather than god which is unverifiable by definition.

ETA: And there's that making a prediction and that using the prediction to do something is one of the best forms of verification. It doesn't work perfectly in this case, but it does make me wonder why you're saying it's unverifiable. And In this case the very fact that people have been trying for years to show that "NP=complete problems can be solved in polynomial time" is a form of evidence against the claim.

[Martell Spy]

9 hours ago, mankytoes said:

I think the most popular view is that it's primarily a result of Cold War propaganda. After the Second World War, I don't think there was a big gap in religious observance between Europe and the USA. The Americans added "In God We Trust" to their currency in '57, and being a Christian was very much promoted as the alternative to being a Godless commie atheist.

Here's another theory. Mainstream American Culture has pretty much rejected religion and made a mockery out of it, at least strong religiosity. The strongly religious have begun to realize this and are reacting to it. Reaction.

It is much like our first African American President and the creation of Obamacare led to reaction in response. Many of these very religious people are older though. And what's becoming very common in America from what I have seen is people that identify as Christian, but are pretty much lapsed. So the trends are looking like we are headed Europe's way in the long term.

[DireWolfSpirit]

10 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Citizens may not enter Wisconsin with a chicken on their head. 

Fuckinay right, come correct with a slab of cheddah on that head or stay out!

[mankytoes]

7 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Here's another theory. Mainstream American Culture has pretty much rejected religion and made a mockery out of it, at least strong religiosity. The strongly religious have begun to realize this and are reacting to it. Reaction.

It is much like our first African American President and the creation of Obamacare led to reaction in response. Many of these very religious people are older though. And what's becoming very common in America from what I have seen is people that identify as Christian, but are pretty much lapsed. So the trends are looking like we are headed Europe's way in the long term.

I guess that's true, I think a lot of Europeans are shocked when they find out how religious the USA is, because we get most of our culture from shows like Friends, and they never went "hey, what time you heading to church tomorrow?". I guess The Simpsons went. I'm not sure about the mockery thing, I mean I saw the Book of Mormon, which is amazing, but even then, at the end, they basically give the message that the church is a good thing because it gives people hope and morality. American religious satire (actually, this may apply to American satire generally) always seems a little tame by British standards.

I do think one reason is the geographic size of America. I'm fascinated by America because of its' cultural diversity, and a big reason for that is groups like the Mormons can just claim a big space, far away from most people, and crack on. Can't do that in Europe. We are all so smooshed together we have to interact more, and that leads to more shared ideas.

I think that's inevitable when people are educated and outside absolute poverty, but I accept that's a biased view. Stats do back it up though. The thing is, you might reach our current level, but we're heading even more secular. The average church attendee in England is very old. If a young person says they go to church, it's almost shocking (if they're white British. Black and Eastern European immigration is really propping up our Christian institutions). And that applies all over, we have nothing even approaching a "bible belt".

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Fuckinay right, come correct with a slab of cheddah on that head or stay out!

Keep your bad cheese and cheap beer!