Mexal Posted January 8, 2018 Share Posted January 8, 2018 Counting down the days until Wenger leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 12 hours ago, polishgenius said: He's a brilliant player. We could use Mahrez a lot more than Liverpool or Barca. We wouldn't even need to shoehorn him in at #8 or #10. He would be a guaranteed starter in his favoured RW position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, Consigliere said: We could use Mahrez a lot more than Liverpool or Barca. We wouldn't even need to shoehorn him in at #8 or #10. He would be a guaranteed starter in his favoured RW position. The only issue I could see with Mahrez at Man United is that he’d be yet another wide player that will always want to cut inside, like Martial, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Rashford. I think Man United might benefit with a more old school type winger that would be willing to get to the by-line and cross the ball in, but there aren’t many of those around in the modern game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 4 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said: The only issue I could see with Mahrez at Man United is that he’d be yet another wide player that will always want to cut inside, like Martial, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Rashford. I think Man United might benefit with a more old school type winger that would be willing to get to the by-line and cross the ball in, but there aren’t many of those around in the modern game. I don't think we need an old school winger at all. None of the top sides play with old fashioned wingers - it is now the job of the fullbacks to provide width. Besides that, just going wide and lumping in crosses limits Lukaku. He is so much more effective when balls are played in behind or down the channels for him to run on to where he can use his pace and strength. Mahrez would be perfect for our right side because not only is he more creative than any of our other right side options but he also looks to beat players 1v1 which Mata never does and Mkhi has been unable to do. Although Mahrez does like to play more centrally than a traditional winger, he doesn't drift inside nearly as much as someone like Mata. When he plays RW, he usually holds a position between the CB and LB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 9 minutes ago, Consigliere said: I don't think we need an old school winger at all. None of the top sides play with old fashioned wingers - it is now the job of the fullbacks to provide width. Besides that, just going wide and lumping in crosses limits Lukaku. He is so much more effective when balls are played in behind or down the channels for him to run on to where he can use his pace and strength. Mahrez would be perfect for our right side because not only is he more creative than any of our other right side options but he also looks to beat players 1v1 which Mata never does and Mkhi has been unable to do. Although Mahrez does like to play more centrally than a traditional winger, he doesn't drift inside nearly as much as someone like Mata. When he plays RW, he usually holds a position between the CB and LB. That would be okay if Man United had penetrative options at right back, which we discussed before. You've highlighted on a few occasions issues with Antonio Valencia at right back, saying that he's a good runner, but is limited in his creative abilities, as his crossing isn't the best. When he is out injured, the situation on the right is made even worse with the fact Lindelof has been playing there despite naturally being a centre back. Darmian, a natural right back, isn't even being picked there. You are right, most top sides play with wingers or wide forwards that cut inside, but most of those clubs have full backs on either side that are of high enough quality to overlap: Walker and Delph (although a far cry from Mendy); Moses/Zappacosta and Alonso; Trippier/Aurier and Rose/Davies; Bellerin and Kolasinac. I'm leaving Liverpool's full backs out as I think that's an area they could strengthen on. When you have full backs/wing backs with that kind of quality, it is all right for the winger to come inside all the time. If Mahrez - a player that likes to cut inside so much to the extent he is a very good number ten - came to Man United while Lindelof was playing right back, it would seriously weaken Man United's right side. I haven't noticed Valencia's weaknesses as much as you, but it seems that even with him starting, Man United's right back is a weak area going forward, which again would mean that Mahrez would be the wrong type of player for Man United's RW/RM position. With Shaw finding form again, Man United might be good to go on the left, as Shaw is a brilliant attacking full back, and has the quality to create on the left and let Martial/Rashford have the freedom to cut in. Maybe if Valencia was Kyle Walker standard, Mahrez would be perfect. But I think that until Man United get a right back of that kind of quality, they can't afford to be playing players that are so keen to cut inside at RW/RM, as it narrows the pitch down and weakens their threat on the right flank as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 19 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said: That would be okay if Man United had penetrative options at right back, which we discussed before. You've highlighted on a few occasions issues with Antonio Valencia at right back, saying that he's a good runner, but is limited in his creative abilities, as his crossing isn't the best. When he is out injured, the situation on the right is made even worse with the fact Lindelof has been playing there despite naturally being a centre back. Darmian, a natural right back, isn't even being picked there. You are right, most top sides play with wingers or wide forwards that cut inside, but most of those clubs have full backs on either side that are of high enough quality to overlap: Walker and Delph (although a far cry from Mendy); Moses/Zappacosta and Alonso; Trippier/Aurier and Rose/Davies; Bellerin and Kolasinac. I'm leaving Liverpool's full backs out as I think that's an area they could strengthen on. When you have full backs/wing backs with that kind of quality, it is all right for the winger to come inside all the time. If Mahrez - a player that likes to cut inside so much to the extent he is a very good number ten - came to Man United while Lindelof was playing right back, it would seriously weaken Man United's right side. I haven't noticed Valencia's weaknesses as much as you, but it seems that even with him starting, Man United's right back is a weak area going forward, which again would mean that Mahrez would be the wrong type of player for Man United's RW/RM position. That's why I'd rather have Mahrez because in the next season or two we will have to sign a right back anyway as Valencia isn't getting any younger. We might look to give TFM an opportunity at RB next season. An old fashioned winger doesn't help us at all. We need a top class creative player like Mahrez on the right to shoulder some of the creative burden with Pogba. Besides, like I've said, pumping in crosses doesn't play to Lukaku's strengths. And I think you are overestimating how much Mahrez cuts inside. When he plays on the right he actually holds that position i.e. between CB and LB. This is not my subjective opinion either; you could have a look at his heat maps when he plays on the right. Unfortunately, even the shitty tabloids aren't linking us to Mahrez. If rumours are to be believed then Lucas Moura is the target which is disappointing to say the least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Brazilian media reporting that United are in negotiations to sign Lucas Moura for €25m. Apparently Globo Esporte are usually quite reliable when it comes to transfers involving Brazilian players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Fuck's sake. Jose's got no imagination has he? He's only going for him now coz he tried to get him back when people still thought he might be really good. Same as Ozil - Jose's going for him coz he knows him. Same as Matic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Matic at least has been a rock in our midfield. Moura, otoh, looks likely to be just as frustrating as Mkhi. Very underwhelming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Let's be honest here, Matic is a significant improvement over the rest of DMs United had at their disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, Consigliere said: Matic at least has been a rock in our midfield. He has been good and so will Ozil be if we get him most probably but they're not exactly building for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, polishgenius said: He has been good and so will Ozil be if we get him most probably but they're not exactly building for the future. Possibly. Although players like Matic and Özil don't really rely on pace. Barring major injuries they could still play at a reasonably high level until age 34/35. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baxus Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, polishgenius said: He has been good and so will Ozil be if we get him most probably but they're not exactly building for the future. Matic is 29 and considering that before he came Carrick spent quite a bit of time on the pitch (38 matches last season) at 35-36 I'd say Matic is quite an improvement even on "building for the future" front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Just now, baxus said: Matic is 29 and considering that before he came Carrick spent quite a bit of time on the pitch (38 matches last season) at 35-36 I'd say Matic is quite an improvement even on "building for the future" front. Because the options were Matic and absolutely nobody? In any case my problem was never really with Matic (though I don't think Matic has been a huge upgrade on how Herrera was playing last season- some probably, but not an enormous difference except in that it's made Jose more confident in using Pogba properly) but with what it said about Jose's attitude. That hasn't really changed even if Matic has been better than I expected him to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Bristol City fully deserving of their 1-0 lead. They’ve been brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 8 minutes ago, polishgenius said: Because the options were Matic and absolutely nobody? In any case my problem was never really with Matic (though I don't think Matic has been a huge upgrade on how Herrera was playing last season- some probably, but not an enormous difference except in that it's made Jose more confident in using Pogba properly) but with what it said about Jose's attitude. That hasn't really changed even if Matic has been better than I expected him to be. It's not just a Mourinho thing though. Lots of clubs are unimaginative. Look at Barca: they decided it was Coutinho or bust and overpaid to get him. Same with Dembele. Liverpool didn't bother with other options apart from VVD and paid a premium to sign him. It was the same with us and Pogba. It can be argued that there were players of similar potential/ability in all of those positions that could have been signed for much less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 All this is true, but it drives me up the all nonetheless. Maybe I was spoiled by years of Fergie not really doing that, even if for every Solskjaer we got a Bellion. eta: though I don't think Pogba fits the description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, polishgenius said: eta: though I don't think Pogba fits the description. Don't think there was a player of similar ability who could have been signed for less than 89mil? Although I will say that with Pogba, I don't think we were looking at purely footballing ability. I suspect we also wanted a high profile midfielder with huge marketing potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Consigliere said: Don't think there was a player of similar ability who could have been signed for less than 89mil? Not really. I think there's a solid chance Pogba ends up one of those 'once a generation' type midfielders, on the level of a Xavi or Keane. That's not a guarantee, but that (as well as the marketing of course) is what we paid the premium for. And even if he only becomes one of the best midfielders of his time, there still aren't too many around like him, with the passing ability combined with the athletic talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan La Cabra Posted January 9, 2018 Share Posted January 9, 2018 Whenever Kevin De Bruyne gets the ball, you have a feeling something is going to happen. What a player. 1-1. ETA: Brutal for Bristol City, who have played so well tonight. But Man City are persistent and press you right until to the final whistle. And in the end, they usually find a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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