baxus

We can all agree that there are some douchebags in gyms. We've all had contact with them, we've all seen them. But there's a way to avoid those people and still get some exercise. We can all agree (I hope) that different sports attract different sorts of people. Try out different sports, see which crowd suits you the most. For example, a pretty obvious first choice can be joining a street runner's team/club. Those usually have different groups based on fitness levels and goals and you can find some people who are going through the same stuff. If you don't like that crowd (my experience says they're ok at first but can get tiresome after a while, but YMMV), you can move on to another sport. It's also important to mention that, just like in any other relatively large social group, you are likely to find some really great people, some real douchebags and most of the people will fall in between those. Find the ones you like and hang out with them, if you want to hang out with anyone in the first place.

That's one more thing - people who are not in shape think that all/most people who exercise are in shape.

I have seen this "people will make fun of me because I'm fat/slow/weak/etc." mentality in people who are out of shape and/or overweight quite a few times. On the other hand, I must say that I have never been HUGELY out of shape but I have changed sports and that often made me feel hugely out of shape and have never experienced people making fun of me for that nor have I ever witnessed people being made fun of for being out of shape. Furthermore, I must say that I have only seen people being supportive when someone is trying to improve their health and fitness levels. And I've seen people who have lost up to 70kgs. I'd say it's more personal fear than anything else. Not meaning to dismiss how people feel or say their fears are unreal, but I'd say people are usually not as bad as feared.

I'm not going to deny I enjoy gaining muscle, losing fat and looking better overall. It's definitely one of the reasons why I'm working out. That doesn't mean health is not one of the reasons, too. As far as society rewarding me for it, I don't think I'm anywhere near fit enough for that to happen

For the sake of argument, it needs to be pointed out that many middle and upper class people work more than 40 hours a week, too. It's not limited to lower class population. The difference being that it's for reasons other than basic survival, of course. Bolded part is what I meant when I said that food industry is doing what it's supposed to do - make profit. Wish I'd phrased it like this. I agree with you about restrictions, too. The tricky part might be that there's more of a grey area on what makes food healthy or not. For example, there are people who would claim red meat is healthy and others who would oppose such a claim. It's much more straightforward with alcohol and tobacco.

If we were to Google research on frequency of physical exercise and obesity rate would there be correlation? Just to point out that I'm not trying to negate the link between income and obesity rates. I do believe that poverty and obesity go hand in hand too often for the connection to be dismissed.

I don't find them at fault. They are working within the laws and rules set upon them. When we, as a society, impose different set of rules on them then they will operate within those. Until then, they are doing nothing wrong according to the current set of rules. We can disagree with what they are doing on a personal level, chose to spend as little as possible on their products and financially support alternative food manufacturers. If we don't do that, then it's OUR fault, not food industry's fault. Hey, let's get real here. It is in human nature to go down the path of least resistance. No one is denying that. Still, that doesn't mean we HAVE to take that path, does it? It is difficult to make the right choices again and again, but those are still the right choices to make whether we like it or not. No one forces your hand to fit into society's expectations. Society makes it easier for you to fit into its expectations than to stand out but you can still stand out. I don't give a rat's ass about people considering me weird. I'm not really going to go back to this one after saying this - you can chose to wait for society to shift so that it suits your wishes to lose weight and eat healthy or you can start eating healthy, exercising and losing weight by doing what needs to be done. I'm not even buying that you'd be sticking out of society's norms by doing that. It's never been more socially acceptable to eat healthy and workout. It is difficult though and that's why most people don't stick with it. You can try to absolve the individual people from all the responsibility all you like, it won't make it true. As long as there are non-obese people in societies you claim do not support a lifestyle that's not leading to obesity, that argument does not stand. Where am I saying that I'm not willing to support regulating the industries? I'm all for regulating the industries but I'm saying that it will take decades for that to work, like it did with tobacco and, to a lesser extent, alcohol. On the other hand, you are the one who gave up on generations of people who will suffer from obesity until that happens. When it comes to addiction, the addict needs to commit to rehab, needs to want to get clean, needs to do what therapists prescribe etc. If there is be a support system in place then that's great and might be helpful but it's once again down to the individual to put in all the work to fight it and beat it. I'm not blaming anyone, I'm saying there's an element of personal responsibility in the matter and there is. Once again, for people who seem to either have difficulty understanding English or have a tendency to put words into people's mouths - tobacco/food/pharma/petroleum/etc. industry should be as heavily regulated as possible but that takes time and generations of people will suffer until that gives results. Until that happens, individual people need to do whatever is up to them to help themselves. Seek therapy, go to a dietician (and stick to the diet plan they are prescribed), increase movement (whether it's walking, cycling, lifting weights or whatever). I'm definitely not going to come back to this subject since my arguments seem to fall on deaf ears and I don't see the point of continuing.

I'm not blaming the food industry because the food industry is doing it's job there - it's trying to make money. It's what industry does - creates a product and sells it. It will not make sure their product is healthy and good for you unless forced to do so by government or something.y EDIT: It's not a matter of how things SHOULD BE, but how things ARE. There's not a single person in the world who wouldn't want eating healthy and keeping weight off to be easier, myself included, but if you expect it to be easy you're just going to get your bubble burst. Because it doesn't work and it will not work until we turn our society into some 1984 rip-off. Here's the thing - if you want to eat healthy and the rest of the group doesn't you don't have to go out with the group. If you can't trust yourself to eat healthy when going out with a group you need to make a choice - do the healthy thing or go out with the group that's not going to eat healthy. It's YOUR choice, it's YOUR responsibility. Other members of the group are under no obligation to make it easier for you and there's zero need for government to get involved. First of all, where do you come up with the whole "entire rest of society is against what you're doing"? There has been no time in human history up until now when it was easier to get support for trying to lose weight and eat healthier and there are many ways to get support on your way to healthier self. Not everyone is going to be supportive but guess what? That will be the case no matter what you are trying to do. Don't hold your breath until EVERYONE applauds you and change their lives to suit your weight loss. It's not my job to make anything easier on anyone nor am I obligated to give anyone structural support for anything. No one has given any of that to people who avoid getting obese by eating healthy and exercising and yet they manage. And I call bullshit on that being the same as condemning them myself. I have no influence on what you eat and how much you exercise. Stop shifting responsibility to other people.

I'm not sure if personal responsibility is the biggest factor at play or not but it definitely is one of the factors and it shouldn't just be dismissed.

It seems to me that you are trying to shift 100% of the responsibility to food industry and completely remove it from an individual. You can do that, but that's not going to work. Individual effort is a REQUIREMENT when combating obesity. We can regulate the shit out of the food industry and you know what's going to happen? A junk food black market. The same happened with prohibition, the same is happening with drugs, you can't ignore a pattern when you try to stop people from consuming what they love. I'm not ignoring anything. I'm just not as ready to count people as helpless entities at food industry's mercy. If someone choses to wait for the whole world to change to help solve their problems then they're welcome to do it. Where have I said that it wasn't hard? It is hard. It's hard for me too, and I do fail to stick with healthy food every so often. Still, I'm not blaming food industry and rather chose to accept my responsibility in the matter. I don't think it can be encouraged any more than it already is. It definitely can't be encouraged by the government. As I said, it comes down to a personal choice. Also, packed lunches aren't the only way to eat a (reasonably) healthy meal at work. You can always find a place with healthier meal options than burgers or pizza. Well, I don't buy that. I'm not cool with just writing off a whole generation of people with a serious health problem. If some of them choose to write themselves off, that's their choice but it needs to be said that there is a way out. It's a long and difficult journey and it will take massive effort and willpower but it is there. I'm not well versed in pharmacy (don't know what codeine even is) but I'm pretty sure you need a doctor's prescription for that, at the very least. Either way, pharma companies are a whole other can of worms that we probably should avoid opening.

@Triskele Don't mind @lessthanluke, he's crazy Congrats, Luke! It's way past impressive!

I didn't say that it's only up to people to stop eating so much unhealthy stuff, I said that that is what people can do at this moment. Everything else that needs to be done will take quite a lot of time to happen. Currently obese people will have little use of regulations enforced on the food industry in 30-40 years time. Of course, that wasn't an argument against starting to work on making and enforcing such regulations. It's funny how it switched from heroine to opiates in an instant, isn't it? Even so, I'd say that claim that billions of people are using opiates on a regular basis and have no problems because of it is a shaky one. The same goes for alcohol. We do need to fight the food industry but it's a long lasting process, just like it was with cigarettes and (to a lesser extent) alcohol. It took decades to get to the point where smoking became undesirable behavior. That happened through regulating tobacco industry and massive marketing effort and something similar needs to be done with food industry as well. Not trying to deny that. First of all, you seem to have just solved the whole "nature vs nurture" debate that has been going on in the scientific community for decades, if not centuries. Please, publish those findings and continue to collect your Nobel prize. Joking aside, genes do impose some limitations but don't determine your future. Also, metabolism is not something that is written in stone and can't be changed. Your metabolic rates can increase or decrease based on your actions. Exercise helps increase it and that's why it's is important, not just because of burning more calories. The Biggest Loser is probably the worst possible example you can use since it's had more than a fair share of controversy. Basically, it was a TV show and it had one goal only - to get participants to lose weight by any means necessary. Participants were even starved and deprived of water before weigh-ins. TV show producers didn't care about the long-term effects such treatment would have on participants' health or if the weight loss would stick around after cameras turn off. While I'm not trying to deny addiction to food, not having cupcakes is hardly going to cause cupcake withdrawal. How do you propose we change these "massive cultural, environmental, and physical things"? Let's say that you want government to, for example, impose additional taxes to sodas. I doubt it would make a significant dent in the sales (except if government goes crazy with tax rates). It will only make soda more expensive for people who buy it. Bottom line - less money in consumers' pockets (who you claim are mostly poor people who can ill afford to lose any more of it) and more money for the government. The only way that could work is if government then uses that money for educating people on how junk food is harmful. That would work, but it would take decades to work. For everyone to regularly pack their lunch, everyone needs to want to pack their lunch. That decision is an individual one and can't be enforced. The most effective way to do it is by not buying their products, or buying them less often. Regulating it through laws, taxes etc. will work but too late for most of the people currently affected. Again, I'm not quite sure that's true.

Dad Bod FTW!

If the obesity problem was ONLY down to food industry (which is shitty all over the world), we'd all be obese.

Read the part you quoted again. I'm saying that there are billions of people who have no addictions to food, not denying the existence of eating disorders. EDIT: It seems to me that I need to point out that in no way am I trying to free food industry of their share of the blame in the obesity problem around the world. I'm just saying that individuals (myself included) can't rely on food industry to do the right thing so we need to do our best to live healthier (including eating better and exercising more).