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The Frowning Kn1ght

Tyrion Lannister Imagery

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Hello,

New to the forum but a big fan already. I apologize if this has been discussed previously but I haven't seen it in my research.

 

I noticed during my second read through of AGoT that there are several references to imagery of Tyrion being large or casting a large shadow. In AGoT Jon I, Tyrion and Jon are talking outside of the feast and as Tyrion walks back in Jon notes his shadow as standing as tall as a king. Not long after that while Tyrion is visiting the wall, he is eating with the officers of the Night's Watch and Maester Aemon makes a reply to a jest that Ser Jaremy Rykker directed at Tyrion. Maester Aemon says he thinks Tyrion is quite a large man and also "a giant come among us" and we know these things are not meant literally. Shae also refers to Tyrion as her giant of Lannister.

 

I may have missed one or two from AGoT and I thought there was another similar mention at the beginning of ACoC but I can't find them. So if anyone else spots one please mention it. Thoughts or comments on the imagery surrounding Tyrion?

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Lots of others:

Shae calling him "my giant."

Moqorro: "Dragons young and old, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow snarling in the midst of it all."

Varys: "(Power is) a shadow on the wall, yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow."

The thing about all the giant/shadow imagery around Tyrion is that the Ghost of High Heart dreamed of a girl with purple serpents in her hair, and later that same girl killing a giant in a castle made of snow. May Tyrion be that giant? Shadows (shades) are often represented as death. So after Sansa kills Tyrion, might he come back as a shadow (or a wight) to wreak untold mischief, particularly to all of the dragons he is snarling at?

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6 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Lots of others:

Shae calling him "my giant."

Moqorro: "Dragons young and old, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow snarling in the midst of it all."

Varys: "(Power is) a shadow on the wall, yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow."

The thing about all the giant/shadow imagery around Tyrion is that the Ghost of High Heart dreamed of a girl with purple serpents in her hair, and later that same girl killing a giant in a castle made of snow. May Tyrion be that giant? Shadows (shades) are often represented as death. So after Sansa kills Tyrion, might he come back as a shadow (or a wight) to wreak untold mischief, particularly to all of the dragons he is snarling at?

That is a fantastic theory. I actually prefer it to Sansa slaying Littlefinger or Robert’s doll. Sansa being the one to kill Tyrion would be a genuinely cool twist. Tyrion Lannister, killed by his own wife, the she wolf finally born.

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7 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Lots of others:

Shae calling him "my giant."

Moqorro: "Dragons young and old, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow snarling in the midst of it all."

Varys: "(Power is) a shadow on the wall, yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow."

The thing about all the giant/shadow imagery around Tyrion is that the Ghost of High Heart dreamed of a girl with purple serpents in her hair, and later that same girl killing a giant in a castle made of snow. May Tyrion be that giant? Shadows (shades) are often represented as death. So after Sansa kills Tyrion, might he come back as a shadow (or a wight) to wreak untold mischief, particularly to all of the dragons he is snarling at?

Heh. I really don't like the idea of Sansa killing Tyrion unless he truly goes off the rails and stays there but this is really ringing a bell.

Anyhow I've noticed that the Casterly/Lannister history if you include the Rhoynar (see my sprawling crackpot Is Craster a Casterly?) lines up very nicely with the 12 Labors of Hercules. Help from @Seams on this one. The first labor lines up with the Casterlys and the Lions, the Hydra lines up with Garin's Curse being the cause of the Doom somehow, and so on.

Anyhow, your theory starts to fall into line with Hercules' last labor of Cerberus and the Eleusinian Mysteries which have to do with monster dogs and how the seasons work. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/Herakles/cerberus.html

 

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Sansa will poison Tyrion (though Jaime will take responsibility for it), his tongue will be the death of him, the Tyrant of Tyrosh poisoned by his queen, his alignment with Aegon II and so on, as to his rebirth;

Quote

Haldon nodded. "Benerro has sent forth the word from Volantis. Her coming is the fulfillment of an ancient prophecy. From smoke and salt was she born to make the world anew. She is Azor Ahai returned … and her triumph over darkness will bring a summer that will never end … death itself will bend its knee, and all those who die fighting in her cause shall be reborn …"

"Do I have to be reborn in this same body?" asked Tyrion. The crowd was growing thicker. He could feel them pressing in around them. "Who is Benerro?"

This one makes it seem like he's going to get a second life, as what I don't know but lion or dragon seem the only fitting options.

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10 hours ago, The Frowning Kn1ght said:

I may have missed one or two from AGoT and I thought there was another similar mention at the beginning of ACoC but I can't find them.

Did you mean this one?

Quote

 “I truly must see my sister and present my letter, ser. If you would be so kind as to open the door for us?” The white knight did not respond. Tyrion was almost at the point of trying to force his way past when Ser Mandon abruptly stood aside. “You may enter. They may not.” A small victory, he thought, but sweet. He had passed his first test. Tyrion Lannister shouldered through the door, feeling almost tall. Five members of the king’s small council broke off their discussion suddenly.

Tyrion I, ACoK

 

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To better understand the giant imagery surrounding Tyrion, I would recommend examining giants in the story.

Rattleshirt wears a giant's skull as a helmet.

Most of the giant references come from Ygritte as she educates Jon Snow, who knows nothing. She sings the song, The Last of the Giants, and tells Jon about them. There is a definite emphasis on the "endangered species" aspect as Jon sees mammoths for the first time at about the same time he sees his first giant.

Later, the smith Donal Noye dies in combat while killing a giant (Mag Mar Tun Doh Weg, better known as Mag the Mighty) in the tunnel through the Wall near Castle Black. Donal is the former smith at Storm's End and made the warhammer that Robert used to kill Rhaegar and the first sword of Stannis Baratheon.

Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun, nicknamed Wun Wun, is a vegetarian and speaks the old tongue. He likes wine. He becomes Val's guard. Wun Wun killing Ser Patrek, a supporter of Queen Selyse, is the last thing Jon sees before he is attacked.

I haven't focused a lot on giants, but I get the feeling that they might be symbolic Targaryens. We are told that Targaryens have mostly died out, like giants. Maester Aemon is the one who calls Tyrion a giant, as you point out. I buy the theory that Tyrion is a secret Targ (A + J = T) or a chimera of Targaryen and Lannister. So the fact that he is recognized as a "giant" by another "giant" might be the first evidence for this giant = Targ hunch.

Ygritte most likely is not a hidden Targ, but she is kissed by fire (= red hair). This might signal someone who communes with the spirit of the Targaryens (for lack of a better way to describe it) and her role in the story seems to be to teach Jon Snow about the world outside of Winterfell.

Donal Noye made Robert's warhammer. Robert used that warhammer to kill Rhaegar Targaryen in a river (the Red Fork). Donal then kills a giant in the Wall. I think we are supposed to compare the one-on-one combat of Robert and Rhaegar with the one-on-Wun Wun combat of Donal and Wun Wun.

The quote cited, above, by @Baela Underleaf is also useful. We know that Ser Mandon Moore will attempt to kill Tyrion in the river at the Battle of Blackwater. The fact that we see Ser Mandon as a gatekeeper in this earlier scene, and that Tyrion feels tall after getting past Ser Mandon, may foreshadow the later combat confrontation. Of course, Tyrion's squire, Podrick Payne, kills Ser Mandon just in time and saves Tyrion. I think the Payne family is a manifestation of The Stranger, so Podrick is sort of "Death, Jr." after his uncle, Ser Ilyn Payne. So Tyrion (the giant) prevails in his encounter with Ser Mandon (= Robert? Donal?) because death intervenes on his side.

If you really want to dig into Tyrion's giant imagery, you would also need to take a close look at Penny. She is the equivalent in Tyrion's arc of Ygritte in Jon Snow's arc. Instead of educating Tyrion about giants, however, she educates him about little people and small folk. She also becomes his master-at-arms, armorer and squire, teaching him the jousting act and helping him to put on his armor (both the wooden armor for the dog/pig jousting and real armor in the sell sword company).

A good topic!

 

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On 10/24/2018 at 6:03 PM, John Suburbs said:

Lots of others:

Shae calling him "my giant."

Moqorro: "Dragons young and old, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow snarling in the midst of it all."

Varys: "(Power is) a shadow on the wall, yet shadows can kill. And ofttimes a very small man can cast a very large shadow."

The thing about all the giant/shadow imagery around Tyrion is that the Ghost of High Heart dreamed of a girl with purple serpents in her hair, and later that same girl killing a giant in a castle made of snow. May Tyrion be that giant? Shadows (shades) are often represented as death. So after Sansa kills Tyrion, might he come back as a shadow (or a wight) to wreak untold mischief, particularly to all of the dragons he is snarling at?

How will Wight-Tyrion be force of the Others towards the dragons? Will his knowledge help defeat the dragons, mitigate the dragons, controll the dragons for the Others? Will Tyrion need to have dragon's blood to be a mischief, when it comes to the dragons?

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2 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said:

How will Wight-Tyrion be force of the Others towards the dragons? Will his knowledge help defeat the dragons, mitigate the dragons, controll the dragons for the Others? Will Tyrion need to have dragon's blood to be a mischief, when it comes to the dragons?

Who knows? Who's to say he will be in league with the Others at this point or that he will defeat, mitigate or control the dragons? All Moqorro says is that he is a "small man with a big shadow snarling in the midst of it all." So my assumption is that he is snarling at all of these dragons, but this isn't exactly clear in the quote.

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