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Lollygag

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  1. Lollygag

    Why do you all hate Sansa Stark?

    This. And I'll add a very western culture/action hero idea of what strength is combined with little understanding of and appreciation for more nuanced (feminine) types strength. Characters like Sansa, Jaime, Bran, Ned and Sam have gone through some pretty terrible things and they haven't let those experiences turn them bitter, angry, vengeful, rotten and hopeless.
  2. Lollygag

    Why do you all hate Sansa Stark?

    ????
  3. They're not dismissals, they are cause for doubt. As I said repeatedly. As for the bolded, possible self-delusion over Robert's paternity/her link to LF (or suspicions of Robert's paternity) and the Arryn/Lannister plot are not equivalents. Self-delusions can be so deep that breaking from the delusions can cause psychological breaks as we see when Lysa begins to realize that she's been deluding herself all along about LF's feelings for her. Lysa hasn't shown any conflict over killing Jon or lying to Cat. Can't disagree more. If you have two clean-limbed, handsome, straight as a lance, hard with muscle, same eye color and same nose but one is black haired and one is blonde, people will not describe them as looking alike in general. GRRM has constructed his world based on families and their similarities based primarily on hair color with other traits being secondary. No, this isn't typical usage on GRRM's part or on the part of everyday people. Technically we don't know, but any other conclusion would be a significant anomaly from what's already been written. If you want to take Lysa at face value, go ahead. But GRRM wouldn't give Robert these attributes if he didn't want readers to question this to whatever ends. He knew what questions would come up in readers' minds if he gave LF-esque qualities to Robert.
  4. I'm on the fence personally about this, but to point out a few things... Lysa is talking to Catelyn here. She's trying to sell Cat a story. GRRM often leaves clues when a character is lying and we have one here: "And strong too, don't you believe the things you hear" immediately precedes Lysa's swearing that Robert is strong. And the statement sounds a bit crazy. Whatever conclusion is made about this, I think it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Again, I think that what Lysa believes needs to be taken with several grains of salt as she's clearly delusional and has apparently spent most of her life in delusion. What Lysa believes doesn't necessarily mean it may be true especially when it affects her so personally. While Lysa didn't enjoy being Jon's wife in the least, she clearly loves the trappings of being Lady Arryn. If she believes that Robert is LF's then she's no more than Cersei passing off another man's child as his own and thus isn't entitled at all to the trappings she enjoys. It makes sense to me that Lysa would delude herself as to Robert's father if it means she gets to believe herself entitled to ruling the Vale. I think this is inconclusive. Agree. Lysa had reddish-brown hair, so based on Lysa alone, the brown may have been what carried. Technically we don't know what Jon's hair color was, but for it to be anything other than sandy-blonde would be very skivvy writing and unusual for GRRM who uses hair color to mark similarities between characters. I've never seen anyone say that two people with the same eye color or nose type look alike in general based on just that. Ever. There has to be more. Pale blue eyes and aquiline noses are just too common to be standout features in their own right. But hair color is often on it's own enough to say people look alike. They're usually wrong on this, but they do it all the same. But it's entirely possible for Jon to be sandy-blonde, Lysa to be red-brown and Robert to have brown hair. It would come from Lysa.
  5. Lollygag

    Daenery’s Diaherrea?

    It doesn’t really say anything either way. Mirri refers to Dany bearing a living child, but she said nothing about conceiving a child. There’s a lot of space between conceiving and bearing a living child. There are different types of infertility: a woman can have trouble conceiving due to her cycle not being regular, her eggs may not being viable, she may have endometriosis and a fertilized egg may not be able to take due to scar tissue. I’ve known women who conceived very easily, but were never able to carry to term for whatever reason. From the description of Rhaego and that Dany was out for so long after, I’m guessing Dany has had some physical scarring which sounds like carrying to term may be an issue. But that’s all really a mute point. Only death (or inability to create life) can pay for life. Dany has dragons when she shouldn’t. In GRRM’s world, there’s a price for this. In this series, people with exceptional abilities over life and death pay for that in some way with children. Maesters are healers (save lives) and they do not marry or have children. Healers among the Dothraki are eunuchs or barren women. The Silent Sisters are healers of the dead and they do not have children. The KG and the NW who are responsible for the lives of the King and his family and the lives of Westeros respectively are not permitted to marry and have children. Mirri is 40ish and childless and she says she paid a great price for what she’s learned so one can make a solid guess as to what this price may have been. Bran gets exceptional abilities when he becomes paralyzed and can’t have children. There are no reports of BR having children. Dany shouldn’t have dragons. But she does and so long as she does, that will be the price based on how it shakes out for so many of the exceptional in the books.
  6. Lollygag

    Daenery’s Diaherrea?

    GRRM actually writes about waste a lot. Dany has explosive diarrhea and we see that some other things have come out. She begins reassessing her life. She realizes that she’s never come to terms with Viserys’ death. There’s been quite a bit that she’s not processed for a long time because of psychological and emotional constipation. Explosive diarrhea indicates to me the degree to which Dany was emotionally constipated. Whenever you see shit and piss, look for what that character is holding back if they can’t relieve their problem or what they’ve just dealt with when they can. It may be emotional, psychological, something in their past or their situation, whatever. ASOS Tyrion VIII He found a privy and sighed gratefully as he relieved himself of the morning's wine. There were times when a piss felt near as good as a woman, and this was one. He wished he could relieve himself of his doubts and guilts half as easily.
  7. I think that's because it hasn't come yet in any broad or significant way as of the end of AFFC though she does have moments both good and bad. She's been in sponge mode this whole time just trying to stay afloat in the tide. She's a Stone which doesn't move until she gets kicked. But the Vale looks like a powder keg about to blow and I think a big kick is coming and she'll have to make choices. @Widow's Wail There's been a bit of topic drift (nothing wrong with that for me!), but to come back around, LF has heard something recently which lowered his opinion of Cersei even more, something which may interfere with his plans. Thus, look to the Cersei chapter preceding AFFC Alayne I for what she might have done that LF may have heard and feels warrants a change of plan on his part. As I said before, I think he's reacting to Cersei's plans to assassinate Jon (Sansa may need another placeholder if fArya falls through and let Jon and Stannis take care of the mess up North) because of the amount of time spent on including Osney. I know a lot of people don't like the idea of LF in Jon's arc, but you know LF is accounting for all Starks who he knows to be alive because that affects Sansa. But I do think it's worth considering that LF may have someone on the council informing him thus he may be reacting to anything in the council meeting. Pycelle, Qyburn, and Harys Swyft (daughter married to Kevan) seem unlikely. Gyles Rosby, Orton Merryweather and Aurane Waters (of the LF-like grey-green eyes and the LF-like wit) are questionable. Aurane's LF-esque character and that he took off with Cersei's ships (maybe LF didn't want Cersei to have many ships?) is in the lead for me.
  8. Lysa ruling the Vale as regent or whatever the term is until Robert Arryn comes of age becomes like Cersei ruling as regent until Tommen comes of age if Robert, like Tommen, is fathered by another man. Both Cersei and Lysa are in a position which isn’t their’s and they’re there by deceit. I don’t know if it’s true or not, but I think a good case could be made that Lysa is not being honest with herself about Robert’s father because of the implications and that a position which she enjoys is not actually hers. If so, then Lysa may be dissing LF because his son can't give her the position that Jon's son could, which should surely sting for LF. Not that I'm crying for him, but that might explain why that scene ended with LF killing her.
  9. The Kettleblacks work for LF, so whatever they know of substance, LF likely knows. In AFFC Cersei IV which is the Cersei chapter which immediately precedes AFFC Alayne I, Cersei tries to get Osney Kettleblack to seduce Marg wherein he would be convicted and sent to the Wall to assassinate Jon because he's a Stark who Cersei especially hates after Joff's murder and because he's working with Stannis. LF knows that Cersei is going after Marg. That's nothing new. But it's a safe bet that LF knows that Marg isn't going to be seduced or even allow for speculation of seduction by Osney. It doesn't work that LF is reacting to this part of the plan so I think LF is reacting to Cersei's assassination plan of Jon. If Osney doesn't work out, she'll try something else. Something he may not find out about in time.
  10. Historical context, hints, whatever. Also a connection between Starks and stars in the text. Anything else of that nature. Just saying, but the bolded is a black hole and could be anything. I could think Starfall means the arrival of aliens from outer space or arrival of dead Dothraki as they see stars as dead ancestors, or that it's wordplay on the Others/wights being from outer space and I could slap that onto anything in turn. I like playing with ideas, but it's a good thing to test those ideas to see if they actually hold up, especially since this is how the author writes even if it's a new idea. You're in wish fulfillment territory until you find that backup.
  11. I'm all for playing with names, but they're just a starting point and not sufficient in themselves. Things need to fall into place around that if you have any interest in actually substantiating your idea. And if it's really a thing, we know it's there to find because that's how GRRM rolls. Starkhole? I think those names weren't used because they sound horrible compared to Starfall which sounds pretty cool. Another reason why you would need to back this up is that there's another interpretation of "fall". I see that Winterfell is generally interpreted on the forum as Winter falling like in a battle which is possible. But I think another interpretation is stronger. Snowfall means snow is arriving or present. Nightfall means night has arrived. Evenfall means evening has arrived. Rainfall means the arrival or presence of rain. Starfall would mean a star has arrived or is present. None of these mean that anything was eliminated but the presence or arrival of something with a bit of a negative connotation included. So might Winterfell mean the arrival of Winter in the past? The first long night? And there's a commonality in all of these words: snowfall, nightfall, even(ing)fall, rainfall, winterfell, and yes, maybe starfall.... This is why I think you need to find where this is backed up if it's true. And you've got a little assuming your own conclusion going on here which isn't very convincing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question If you don't want to do the work to back this up or just don't have the time, ok, but don't be surprised if the only people you convince are those who just like the idea and want it to be true.
  12. Lollygag

    The House of the Undying

    This feels like a completely different series to me but .
  13. I think you'd need to find some sort of connection between the Starks and stars in the text, otherwise, it's a bit out of nowhere. I can't think of anything offhand but that's not to say nothing's there. The wights' eyes are compared to stars, but the Stark connection to the Others and wights is just speculation and theory at this point. It would help a lot to find some hints that the Starks had some connection to this area during that time. Houses aren't honorable or dishonorable. People are. Ned personally was big on honor from his being raised by High as Honor Arryns. The Starks have had to be Kings of Winter, hard men for hard times. Honor falls to the wayside when you're just struggling to save your family and your people in the face of Winter. ADWD Davos IV "Then a long cruel winter fell," said Ser Bartimus. "The White Knife froze hard, and even the firth was icing up. The winds came howling from the north and drove them slavers inside to huddle round their fires, and whilst they warmed themselves the new king come down on them. Brandon Stark this was, Edrick Snowbeard's great-grandson, him that men called Ice Eyes. He took the Wolf's Den back, stripped the slavers naked, and gave them to the slaves he'd found chained up in the dungeons. It's said they hung their entrails in the branches of the heart tree, as an offering to the gods. The old gods, not these new ones from the south. Your Seven don't know winter, and winter don't know them." Dany, Viserys, Aerys and Rhaegar were completely different. Are the Targs honorable or not? Hoster, the Blackfish, Catelyn, Lysa and Edmure are all Tullys. Was this house honorable or not? It's an individual thing. These sorts of tribalistic generalizations don't make sense.
  14. It's been a long time between books, so it's easy to forget, but GRRM is very good at surprising the reader and taking the story on a hard turn in a direction no one expected. To make my point, what would you answer to the same question when ACOK was the most recent book? I'm hoping and expecting to be surprised. Maybe a wildling? Maybe those old and ambitious kings, the Thenns? Signorn's stock will rise with his marriage to Alys (almost a Stark!) Karstark and also with his knowledge of wights and Others. ASOS Jon III Jon bowed his head stiffly, and went. If all the wildlings were like Styr, it would be easier to betray them. The Thenns were not like other free folk, though. The Magnar claimed to be the last of the First Men, and ruled with an iron hand. His little land of Thenn was a high mountain valley hidden amongst the northernmost peaks of the Frostfangs, surrounded by cave dwellers, Hornfoot men, giants, and the cannibal clans of the ice rivers. Ygritte said the Thenns were savage fighters, and that their Magnar was a god to them. Jon could believe that. Unlike Jarl and Harma and Rattleshirt, Styr commanded absolute obedience from his men, and that discipline was no doubt part of why Mance had chosen him to go over the Wall. Old things and ways coming back. Maybe much older ways than we think? The Starks were known as the Kings of Winter. All of Westeros will soon be in a deep freeze, so the King of Winter might have a very, very broad reach. And here’s Alys getting married in a frosty crown. ADWD Jon X The girl smiled in a way that reminded Jon so much of his little sister that it almost broke his heart. "Let him be scared of me." The snowflakes were melting on her cheeks, but her hair was wrapped in a swirl of lace that Satin had found somewhere, and the snow had begun to collect there, giving her a frosty crown. Her cheeks were flushed and red, and her eyes sparkled.
  15. Lollygag

    The House of the Undying

    By story, do you mean ASOIAF is about the birth of Dany's three human children? Why bother with Starks, Lannisters, Greyjoys and the rest? The Game of Thrones? TWOIAF? Why any of it because if this is the point of the whole story, so much of the rest becomes filler. What role would 3 kids all under 5 have to the story? Dany cares about not having human kids, but she doesn't mull over it much. She chose to give up Rhaego and I've not seen where she ever regretted this. Why should the reader care more than she does? This whole series is about a teenager's fertility problems? I feel like I'm missing something... Again, this seems to go against themes brought up in Cersei's arc about the role of women in that world which Dany is supposed to be above when she finds her Bride of Fire self. ASOS Tyrion III "Three children is quite sufficient. I am Queen of the Seven Kingdoms, not a brood mare! The Queen Regent!"
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