dialt Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 16 hours ago, Tucu said: Funnily enough the horns are created when other glacial formations (cirques) in the form of a bowl meet and suffer further erosion. So we have bowl(s) that end as a horn (an inversion of a horn ending as a drinking bowl). Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 49 minutes ago, lalt said: Yes, sure. But I am thinking about something a little different. And those legends may fit that idea (I won't call it "theory" because I am only trying to see if it may works). In short the legends tell us something more: that the pact preceded (for a few centuries) the Long Night. And in those stories you are mentioning it looks like there are 2 sides: on one side people like the Starks + the CotF and on the other side people like the Blackwoods. So the question/idea is: what if that that part of the legend is also true and therefore the pact was made prior to the LN (not because of it as many of us suspect)? That because there was some kind of competition, some power struggle among the FM. And therefore, some of them - like the Starks - signed the pact with the children to gain their help - and their magic - vs "others" FM (people like the Blackwoods). With that help some those clans/families gained the lands that became their ancestral seats. And the children not only the forests but the protection of clans/families like the Starks, that became the "winning side" among the FM. So after the pact - between the children and only some of the FM - fights, wars occurred between these two sides. Sacrificies maybe. Or maybe that is when the "tradition" to offer the entrails of traitors to the weirwood trees was born. And that is how these outcasted FM - those not aligned to the pact - became the "Others". Something under those lines. Sorry if I couldn't explain better myself, but I hope you get it. I think we are in agreement on several points. The main difference probably is that I believe that the CoTF/Weirwoods realised that none of the FM bloodlines could be trusted for long. So they designed a system where trust or a Pact is not needed. The mythical ancient enemy and The Wall that marks the end of the world of men would be part of that post-Pact system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialt Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 25 minutes ago, Tucu said: The main difference probably is that I believe that the CoTF/Weirwoods realised that none of the FM bloodlines could be trusted for long. So they designed a system were trust or a Pact is not needed. The mythical ancient enemy and The Wall that marks the end of the world of men would be part of that post-Pact system. I see... that would explain - I guess - why the children don't live south of the Wall anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janneyc1 Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 28 minutes ago, Tucu said: I think we are in agreement on several points. The main difference probably is that I believe that the CoTF/Weirwoods realised that none of the FM bloodlines could be trusted for long. So they designed a system were trust or a Pact is not needed. The mythical ancient enemy and The Wall that marks the end of the world of men would be part of that post-Pact system. So perhaps the Last Hero's journey to get the help of the CHildren was to reinstate a pact with them? The Children raise the Wall and leave the lands south of it to the humans. Later on, the children are upset that the Wildlings are still north of the Wall, possibly after a betrayal and send the popsicles to escort them south? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Stark Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 My take is something happened in Ashai to give 2 bloodlines magic, one tied to ice and the other to fire, by people overreaching for power. This threw off the seasons and the Fire side created the dragons. Both sides left Ashai after it became ruined by magic used for war between the two, Ice sailed to the East across the sea and Fire to the West. Fire became the Dragonlords, and both raised Valeria and led the First Men to Westerous. Ice created Moat Catelyn and befriended the Cotf before the first men arrived. When the First Men arrived, they arranged peace by a marriage between the two leaders and had a son who inherited great powers and inspired the story of Azor Ahai, the Last Hero and the Night King and brought the Long Night. After he was defeated the pact was signed. Being a Stark, he is buried in Winterfells Crypts. His sword is Dawn and the decents of the Dragonlords who led the First Men are the Dayne's. Jon as Rhaegar's son is the first born since to inherit both bloodlines, AA reborn. But some of who he was is lost when he is resurrected and he turns to darkness eventually becoming the new Night King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Janneyc1 said: So perhaps the Last Hero's journey to get the help of the CHildren was to reinstate a pact with them? The Children raise the Wall and leave the lands south of it to the humans. Later on, the children are upset that the Wildlings are still north of the Wall, possibly after a betrayal and send the popsicles to escort them south? Time for some tinfoil...from the weirwood perspective, we might look at the ancient FM and the current wildlings as dangerous hard to control cattle (or bacteria and mold in a blue cheese); as long as their number is kept in balance they are useful. What would happen if a terrible winter is coming that would kill them all? A sensible rancher would put some of them in a safe place. Were the weirwoods/CoTF responsible for the Long Night and the incoming Winter? Maybe at some level by sharing responsibility in the abuse of magic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Tucu said: Patience is required. On Groundhog Day he also wrote this in his blog: I think he is going back into his writing borrow. Hey - you - get off of my cloud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Daga Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 19 hours ago, Tucu said: For the god of wind I am not looking for a single person but for magical beings capable of controlling the wind and storms. Bran, Melisandre, Moqorro and maybe Euron have shown some power over the wind and weather. Daenerys has been linked to some impressive magic and she is certainly tied to storm imagery, which would include wind. 5 hours ago, LynnS said: I wonder what Ghost has to do with it since he belongs to the old gods and brought Jon to the hidden cache. Ghost is also mute, like the horn. I had not thought before about a link between the silent horn and the silent wolf. Interesting! I need to think on this a bit. On a very quick thought, it does remind be of Euron and his Silence and his crew of mutes! 23 hours ago, LynnS said: On 2/3/2019 at 8:32 AM, St Daga said: Oh, I really like this. It really embraces the idea that horns can have duel purposes and be used for drinking cups OR for making signal horns! Is this then the ". . drink from the cup of ice . . . drink from the cup of fire . . ."? Would this make the horn that Victarion/Moqorro have the "Cup of Fire", a horn from the Lands of the Long Summer, also known as Valyria, while a horn from the Lands of Always Winter the "Cup of Ice". We don't yet know what Dragonbinder will do to Victarion. We just know that you can't wind it and remain alive. I'd just say that sorcery has a price. Certainly, there is a heavy price. When we see Dragonbinder blown by Euron's man, he seems to cook from the inside out and his tattoo's bleed. This could be the Horn of Fire. So, if there is a Horn of Ice, could it cause that person to freeze from the inside out. And what if these horns are blown by (or drank from) the correct person (not just one of Euron's mongrels), could it turn that person into a living being of fire or ice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 You would think the dragon-binding horn would need to be blown by the rider. Dany dreamt of being cleansed by fire: Quote Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt a dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Herblood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce. Something has to happen to the horn blower before he or she would be able to blow it without dying. They need to be transformed. Dany went through a lot of pain and suffering in the early days of her marriage, but somehow after she had this dream she became stronger and the eggs became warmer. This might sound strange, but I think Drogo's semen "seeded" the dragon eggs. Maybe Rhaego's life-force went into the eggs immediately instead of during the tent revival? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 1 hour ago, St Daga said: Daenerys has been linked to some impressive magic and she is certainly tied to storm imagery, which would include wind. If Daenerys Stormborn's birth is related to weather magic. Was the storm an attack on her or her birth cause the storm? This quote is about the stallion that mounts the world: Quote "The thunder of his hooves!" the others chorused. "As swift as the wind he rides, and behind him his khalasar covers the earth, men without number, with arakhs shining in their hands like blades of razor grass. Fierce as a storm this prince will be. His enemies will tremble before him, and their wives will weep tears of blood and rend their flesh in grief. The bells in his hair will sing his coming, and the milk men in the stone tents will fear his name." And this is from the House of the Undying: Quote mother of dragons . . . child of storm . . . Can we trace any Baratheon bloodline for Dany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Stark Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 34 minutes ago, Tucu said: Can we trace any Baratheon bloodline for Dany? Not if we assume everyone's parents really are who we think. I thought this quote from the hotu was unusual, I was born in a blizzard, but no one ever called me 'son of blizzard'. She is also child of three and daughter of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 53 minutes ago, Tucu said: Can we trace any Baratheon bloodline for Dany? The Baratheon's weren't the original Storm Lords...that would be Durran Godsgrief and House Durrandon. The Baratheon's married into the Durrandon - we're back to Oreo, I mean Orys, Baratheon who married Argella Durrandon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 2 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said: The Baratheon's weren't the original Storm Lords...that would be Durran Godsgrief and House Durrandon. They are Durrandon through the female line. Orys Baratheon married Argella Durrandon and took over the Stormlands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Just now, Tucu said: They are Durrandon through the female line. Orys Baratheon married Argella Durrandon and took over the Stormlands. Yes, I added that while you were posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 We could build on old Oreo's origin - he was rumored to be a Targaryen bastard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 This question on Quora made me laugh just now, Quote Which will be released first: Mueller’s report or The Winds of Winter? ...back to our scheduled programming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Stark Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 37 minutes ago, Feather Crystal said: We could build on old Oreo's origin - he was rumored to be a Targaryen bastard. He was rumored to be the son or brother of Aegon the Conqueror (I forget) but the daughter of a Durrandon. Durrandon's male line went extinct and we have no evidence the blood went on at all other than through Oreo. There is Targaryen ancestry in the Baratheon line, but the question was whether there was Baratheon or Durrandon ancestry in the Targaryen line, and I doubt there is any evidence for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucu Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 Too bad, it would have been an easy explanation of "child of storm". Now I need to think about how Robert got into Rhaella's or Ashara's bedchamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Crow Posted February 4, 2019 Author Share Posted February 4, 2019 6 hours ago, Janneyc1 said: So perhaps the Last Hero's journey to get the help of the CHildren was to reinstate a pact with them? The Children raise the Wall and leave the lands south of it to the humans. Later on, the children are upset that the Wildlings are still north of the Wall, possibly after a betrayal and send the popsicles to escort them south? I think that a simpler way of looking at it that the old allegiances are based on particular families rather the entirety of two races. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melifeather Posted February 4, 2019 Share Posted February 4, 2019 44 minutes ago, Brad Stark said: He was rumored to be the son or brother of Aegon the Conqueror (I forget) but the daughter of a Durrandon. Durrandon's male line went extinct and we have no evidence the blood went on at all other than through Oreo. There is Targaryen ancestry in the Baratheon line, but the question was whether there was Baratheon or Durrandon ancestry in the Targaryen line, and I doubt there is any evidence for that. Surely Oreo and Argella had children with some of the Durrandon genes passed into the child? If Argella had the "magic" blood, then she passed it on like all the other magic maidens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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