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Legitimate_Bastard

Glass Candles - Questions

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We are told of 4 that supposedly came to Westeros long ago.

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Pate knew about the glass candles, though he had never seen one burn. They were the worst-kept secret of the Citadel. It was said that they had been brought to Oldtown from Valyria a thousand years before the Doom. He had heard there were four; one was green and three were black, and all were tall and twisted.

AFFC Prologue

We know of 2 currently burning - are there more anyone can point to?

One is burning in the House of Urrathon Night Walker.

One is burning at the Citadel.

Quaithe must have one too - right?

Couple questions I have.

Are there more than 4 out there, other than the 4 previously mentioned?

Could the person who de-bollocked Varys have used a Glass Candle also?

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"One day at Myr, a certain man came to our folly. After the performance, he made an offer for me that my master found too tempting to refuse. I was in terror. I feared the man meant to use me as I had heard men used small boys, but in truth the only part of me he had need of was my manhood. He gave me a potion that made me powerless to move or speak, yet did nothing to dull my senses. With a long hooked blade, he sliced me root and stem, chanting all the while. I watched him burn my manly parts on a brazier. The flames turned blue, and I heard a voice answer his call, though I did not understand the words they spoke.

ACOK - Tyrion X

Also, does the person being watched/viewed through the Glass Candle also have to have one near by? I am not sure how they saw Sam without Sam having one...

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What feeds a dragon's fire?" Marwyn seated himself upon a stool. "All Valyrian sorcery was rooted in blood or fire. The sorcerers of the Freehold could see across mountains, seas, and deserts with one of these glass candles. They could enter a man's dreams and give him visions, and speak to one another half a world apart, seated before their candles. Do you think that might be useful, Slayer?"

AFFC - Samwell V

Idk if this indicates one can see with just one, but that to communicate takes two.

Help me out folks.

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Without an attached Hi-Def monitor and surround speakers, the only way a device like that can really convey information is through visions.  They are lit as a result of Drogo's funeral fire.  I like the proposed theory which states they are the actual Lightbringers.  

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20 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Idk if this indicates one can see with just one, but that to communicate takes two.

 

They've always sounded a lot like palantirs to me. Homage or blatant rip off, you make the call.

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45 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

We are told of 4 that supposedly came to Westeros long ago.

We are told they came to OLDTOWN - there could be more in Westeros as a whole...

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We know of 2 currently burning - are there more anyone can point to?

One is burning in the House of Urrathon Night Walker.

One is burning at the Citadel.

Urrathon Nightwalker is in Qarth iirc, so no reason to think this is one of 'the four', though Marwin's candle would be.

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Quaithe must have one too - right?

That's how I read it - she uses it to keep in touch with Dany

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Couple questions I have.

Are there more than 4 out there, other than the 4 previously mentioned?

Almost certainly - Valyrians used them a lot, they must have had a lot of them. Just because we've only heard about the Oldtown four is in no way any indication that they are all that exist. And Urrathon and Qaithe are probably doing their bits to show glass candles are out there in the world....

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Could the person who de-bollocked Varys have used a Glass Candle also?

Possible, but even Varys in his agony will not be mistaking a brazier for a glass candle, and he clearly said the flame was in a brazier. That's if this person even existed.....

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Also, does the person being watched/viewed through the Glass Candle also have to have one near by? I am not sure how they saw Sam without Sam having one...

The glass candle seems to enhance the magical abilities of the user - whether the user wants to see somewhere else, or project a 'vision', only the one is needed. Some sort of lens for magic.

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Idk if this indicates one can see with just one, but that to communicate takes two.

No, two not needed - Dany didn't have one when she and Qaithe communicated. Qaithe was entirely in control of that, and we can but assume she used a glass candle to do so.

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Help me out folks.

 

We know Marwin has one, and this probably isn't the one the Citadel use for their vigils, and I'd be most surprised if the Hightowers hadn't managed to nab one of the four. So I think there's at least one of the Oldtown four unaccounted for. Now, it could be safely locked up in the Citadel still, or there again.... someone else might have purloined it....

Edited by Rufus Snow
sp.

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32 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

Almost certainly - Valyrians used them a lot, they must have had a lot of them. Just because we've only heard about the Oldtown four is in no way any indication that they are all that exist. And Urrathon and Qaithe are probably doing their bits to show glass candles are out there in the world....

The Valyrian connection makes me wonder if the FM have one. Or if they are after one...

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1 hour ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Are there more than 4 out there, other than the 4 previously mentioned?

I think House Hightower has one. 

And beyond, where the Honeywine widened into Whispering Sound, rose the Hightower, its beacon fires bright against the dawn. From where it stood atop the bluffs of Battle Island, its shadow cut the city like a sword. Those born and raised in Oldtown could tell the time of day by where that shadow fell. Some claimed a man could see all the way to the Wall from the top. (Prologue, AFFC)

If they have a glass candle, then they would be able to see all the way to the Wall. Plus from what little we know of them,  the Hightowers seem to be fans of magic.

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2 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think House Hightower has one. 

And beyond, where the Honeywine widened into Whispering Sound, rose the Hightower, its beacon fires bright against the dawn. From where it stood atop the bluffs of Battle Island, its shadow cut the city like a sword. Those born and raised in Oldtown could tell the time of day by where that shadow fell. Some claimed a man could see all the way to the Wall from the top. (Prologue, AFFC)

If they have a glass candle, then they would be able to see all the way to the Wall. Plus from what little we know of them,  the Hightowers seem to be fans of magic.

Hell yeah - wicked catch there!

I never took it as a nod to glass candles, but you are right the Hightowers are all about some magic. 

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1 hour ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Hell yeah - wicked catch there!

I never took it as a nod to glass candles, but you are right the Hightowers are all about some magic. 

I think the Hightowers are going to be important. The idea that Leyton Hightower has not left the Hightower for ten years which is the length of the summer that's ending is I think telling.

And if they have a glass candle, then I wonder if they know about Euron. 

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9 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

And if they have a glass candle, then I wonder if they know about Euron. 

If they have one (which I now think they probably do) I'm sure they not only know about Euron, but have made some sort of preparation to defend against him.

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A Feast for Crows - Samwell V

"The Hightower must be doing something."
"To be sure. Lord Leyton's locked atop his tower with the Mad Maid, consulting books of spells. Might be he'll raise an army from the deeps. Or not. Baelor's building galleys, Gunthor has charge of the harbor, Garth is training new recruits, and Humfrey's gone to Lys to hire sellsails. If he can winkle a proper fleet out of his whore of a sister, we can start paying back the ironmen with some of their own coin. Till then, the best we can do is guard the sound and wait for the bitch queen in King's Landing to let Lord Paxter off his leash."
The bitterness of the captain's final words shocked Sam as much as the things he said. If King's Landing loses Oldtown and the Arbor, the whole realm will fall to pieces, he thought as he watched the Huntress and her sisters moving off.

An army from the deeps? Sounds magical. Also sounds like one of the only things I could think that could beat say, a Kraken?

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Archmaester Quillion suggests a connection between the fortress and the mazemakers of Lorath.[9] The legends of Lorath claim the mazemakers were destroyed by something from the sea.[10] Maester Theron, a bastard of ironborn ancestry, suggests in his Strange Stonethat there is a connection between the Hightower's base and the Seastone Chair, and that they were created by the Deep Ones, a legendary race created by the breeding of sea creatures with humans and which may have inspired the legends of merlings.[9]

From the Wiki

Sounds similar to what might be going to happen off of Oldtown? No?

 

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7 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

There is a theory that Marwyn saw the whole Alchemist/Pate/Rosey buisness through his glass candle and sent Lazy Leo to chase everyone else away, so that Pate and the Alchemist could meet in peace.

Not heard that one. Thanks!

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3 minutes ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Not heard that one. Thanks!

In broad strokes:

- Leo was confined to the Citadel, but someone released him three days early.

- There were red spots on Leo's clothes, and we know that Marwyn chews red sourleaf.

- Leo behaves like a jerk, until everyone gets tired and leaves the tavern, except for Pate, who has a meeting with the Alchemist.

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13 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

In broad strokes:

- Leo was confined to the Citadel, but someone released him three days early.

- There were red spots on Leo's clothes, and we know that Marwyn chews red sourleaf.

- Leo behaves like a jerk, until everyone gets tired and leaves the tavern, except for Pate, who has a meeting with the Alchemist.

Perhaps Leo was rewarded by getting to look at "naked women". LOL

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I have read the WOIAF and F&B. I have not however scoured those books. Is there some reference in those books as to the sorcerers of the Freehold using the glass candles?

A Feast for Crows - Samwell V     The sorcerers of the Freehold could see across mountains, seas, and deserts with one of these glass candles. They could enter a man's dreams and give him visions, and speak to one another half a world apart, seated before their candles. Do you think that might be useful, Slayer?"/

The above quote ^ gives a bit of information about glass candles.

Lots of room to imagine how Quaithe interacted with Dany.

Lots of room to ponder whether Jaime's dream was from the weirwood stump or whether Jojen's green dreams were from the old gods or whether Bran's comatose dreams were from BR.

According to Marwyn, who has studied and traveled the Westeros world, the candles could be used to enter a man's dreams and give him visions.

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3 hours ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Sounds similar to what might be going to happen off of Oldtown? No?

Visions danced before her, gold and scarlet, flickering, forming and melting and dissolving into one another, shapes strange and terrifying and weeping blood. Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. Shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. Through curtains of fire great winged shadows wheeled against a hard blue sky. (Mel I, ADWD 31)

Three Towers? Sam makes sure to point it out to Gilly when they sail past.

ETA: Sorry, this is so outside the scope of your thread.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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9 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think House Hightower has one. 

And beyond, where the Honeywine widened into Whispering Sound, rose the Hightower, its beacon fires bright against the dawn. From where it stood atop the bluffs of Battle Island, its shadow cut the city like a sword. Those born and raised in Oldtown could tell the time of day by where that shadow fell. Some claimed a man could see all the way to the Wall from the top. (Prologue, AFFC)

If they have a glass candle, then they would be able to see all the way to the Wall. Plus from what little we know of them,  the Hightowers seem to be fans of magic.

Totally agree, that's the quote that made me think the Hightowers would have laid hands on one of the Citadel's candles given half a chance....

 

4 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Lots of room to ponder whether Jaime's dream was from the weirwood stump or whether Jojen's green dreams were from the old gods or whether Bran's comatose dreams were from BR.

According to Marwyn, who has studied and traveled the Westeros world, the candles could be used to enter a man's dreams and give him visions.

Yeah, I've wondered about that, but in the end, it seemed to me that Qaithe thought it news-worthy that the candles were NOW burning, after dragons came back. I think those dreams that happened before the dragons hatched were unlikely to have been mediated by candles (so Bran and Jojen, say...) but those later ones (like maybe Jaime...) could have been done with candles.

As to what the Hightowers can see, we'll probably not discover unless Leyton comes down and tells us ...

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21 minutes ago, Rufus Snow said:

Totally agree, that's the quote that made me think the Hightowers would have laid hands on one of the Citadel's candles given half a chance....

I don't think they took anything from the Citadel. The Hightowers had their own Valyrian steel sword, so nothing says they didn't just bring the glass candle from Valyria before the Doom. 

One thing I find curious is the Targaryens don't seem to have any glass candles. I was expecting a mention in passing in Fire & Blood, but there was none of that. 

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17 hours ago, Legitimate_Bastard said:

We are told of 4 that supposedly came to Westeros long ago.

We know of 2 currently burning - are there more anyone can point to?

One is burning in the House of Urrathon Night Walker.

One is burning at the Citadel.

Quaithe must have one too - right?

Couple questions I have.

Are there more than 4 out there, other than the 4 previously mentioned?

Could the person who de-bollocked Varys have used a Glass Candle also?

Also, does the person being watched/viewed through the Glass Candle also have to have one near by? I am not sure how they saw Sam without Sam having one...

Idk if this indicates one can see with just one, but that to communicate takes two.

Help me out folks.

https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/150476-daenerys-is-azor-ahai/&tab=comments#comment-8137799

That link will lead you to a really good discussion of the glass candles.  My opinion, they are Martin's homage to Sting.  They glow now because they react to the Others.  Drogo's sacrifice gave birth to the dragons because he is the Nissa Nissa of this age.  The return of the dragons and the rebirth of Daenerys into Azor Ahai increased the magic on Planetos.  The candles are drawing their power from this magic.  

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On 2/1/2019 at 10:20 AM, Legitimate_Bastard said:

Pate knew about the glass candles, though he had never seen one burn. They were the worst-kept secret of the Citadel. It was said that they had been brought to Oldtown from Valyria a thousand years before the Doom. He had heard there were four; one was green and three were black, and all were tall and twisted.

AFFC Prologue

What do you think is the significance of the colors? Would the green and the black candles have different powers? Maybe one color can see past / present / future and the other can see only the present? Maybe the combined green and black create special synergy although each has powers that can be used individually.

We know that GRRM used these colors to represent factions in the Dance of the Dragons. Will the distribution of these four candles tell us which factions are working together and which are in opposition in the current events?

The last little description of the candles as tall and twisted may also be significant. The word "twisted" is used in a number of ways in ASOIAF and all of the uses tend to be negative: Tyrion's legs are stunted and twisted, people's mouths twist when they contemplate something unpleasant, branches and roots of trees in scary contexts can be twisted. The first use of the word is someone joking about Ser Waymar Royce twisting heads off of martens to get fur to make his sable cloak - sort of foreshadowing the beheadings we will see later? I think these twisted candles may also be ominous.

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29 minutes ago, Seams said:

What do you think is the significance of the colors? Would the green and the black candles have different powers? Maybe one color can see past / present / future and the other can see only the present? Maybe the combined green and black create special synergy although each has powers that can be used individually.

We know that GRRM used these colors to represent factions in the Dance of the Dragons. Will the distribution of these four candles tell us which factions are working together and which are in opposition in the current events?

The last little description of the candles as tall and twisted may also be significant. The word "twisted" is used in a number of ways in ASOIAF and all of the uses tend to be negative: Tyrion's legs are stunted and twisted, people's mouths twist when they contemplate something unpleasant, branches and roots of trees in scary contexts can be twisted. The first use of the word is someone joking about Ser Waymar Royce twisting heads off of martens to get fur to make his sable cloak - sort of foreshadowing the beheadings we will see later? I think these twisted candles may also be ominous.

Just stopping by quickly before I have to run out, but I share the same inquisitiveness with you regarding the colors. I have been super curious for a long time about the different colors of obsidian as well. Alas, I do not have any theories that I feel has legs to stand on, but I do wonder if the colors have different capabilities/powers as well. Or, are they just different because mineral deposits make rocks look different? <--- super boring answer :ack:

A Storm of Swords - Samwell V

"Dragonglass." The red woman's laugh was music. "Frozen fire, in the tongue of old Valyria. Small wonder it is anathema to these cold children of the Other."
"On Dragonstone, where I had my seat, there is much of this obsidian to be seen in the old tunnels beneath the mountain," the king told Sam. "Chunks of it, boulders, ledges. The great part of it was black, as I recall, but there was some green as well, some red, even purple. I have sent word to Ser Rolland my castellan to begin mining it. I will not hold Dragonstone for very much longer, I fear, but perhaps the Lord of Light shall grant us enough frozen fire to arm ourselves against these creatures, before the castle falls."
Sam cleared his throat. "S-sire. The dagger . . . the dragonglass only shattered when I tried to stab a wight."
 
And with this, I always wondered just what was going on under the mountain and if it is anyway associated with the obsidian and candles and colors? I will add that a minor crackpot I used to have was that Mel's necklace wasn't an actual ruby, but a chunk of ruby-colored (red) obsidian, giving her that direct connection to the "red god" (or whatever) controlling her. But that is neither here nor there and on topic :)

A Storm of Swords - Davos II

Davos shook his head. "I will be fine. Tell me, Salla, I must know. No one but Melisandre?"
The Lyseni gave him a long doubtful look, and continued reluctantly. "The guards keep all others away, even his queen and his little daughter. Servants bring meals that no one eats." He leaned forward and lowered his voice. "Queer talking I have heard, of hungry fires within the mountain, and how Stannis and the red woman go down together to watch the flames. There are shafts, they say, and secret stairs down into the mountain's heart, into hot places where only she may walk unburned. It is enough and more to give an old man such terrors that sometimes he can scarcely find the strength to eat."
Melisandre. Davos shivered. "The red woman did this to him," he said. "She sent the fire to consume us, to punish Stannis for setting her aside, to teach him that he could not hope to win without her sorceries."
 
This, or I need to stop for more coffee when I go out :cheers:
 
Edited by The Fattest Leech

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