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Lady Dayne

Tyrion: No Longer the Smartest Guy in the Room

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2 minutes ago, Timm said:

I think we are looking at the same thing from two sides.

Why send an assassin? Why send Bronn?

I don't know. But it is strange sending Bronn with that mission. She cannot be that stupid as to ignore he's a friend of both. He's greedy, that she knows. Perhaps it was an attempt to persuade them to change side.

If I were Cersei and wanted to kill someone, I wouldn't send thier friend to do the job. Would you?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Ranger Kragin said:

But not in the show, if I remember correctly. There's only the vision of the the wall wit hKhal Drogo's tent right in front of it, foreshadowing her death by the wall... or so it was said. Although, I am almost certain Tyrion is trying to depose Dany in favor of Jon. Or Tyrion has gone mad.

What I do not know is: When did this happen? Has it always been so, or his change of heart is more recent?

Yes not in the show, as they left many characters aside or under developed, but in combination with Martins words that the end is going to be the same and so the major plot points, since it’s foreshadowed in the books and since Tyrion’s arc can’t be changed (at the end I mean), I at least come to the conclusion that he will betray her. Again in combination, not just because it’s in the books. 

 

Edited by Nightwish

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3 minutes ago, Ranger Kragin said:

I don't know. But it is strange sending Bronn with that mission. She cannot be that stupid as to ignore he's a friend of both. He's greedy, that she knows. Perhaps it was an attempt to persuade them to change side.

If I were Cersei and wanted to kill someone, I wouldn't send thier friend to do the job. Would you?

Lol, certainly not, but it can be a plot hole, as the script suffers these late seasons. 

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Posted (edited)

Would that be the "betrayal of love"? So, shall we assume that Tyrion is in love with her?

Poor Sansa, I had hoped...

Edited by Ranger Kragin

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4 minutes ago, Ranger Kragin said:

I don't know. But it is strange sending Bronn with that mission. She cannot be that stupid as to ignore he's a friend of both. He's greedy, that she knows. Perhaps it was an attempt to persuade them to change side.

If I were Cersei and wanted to kill someone, I wouldn't send thier friend to do the job. Would you?

Maybe it was not her fault. Did she actually select Bronn? She didn't give him the crossbow...

Or maybe it was just bad writing.

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10 minutes ago, Timm said:

Maybe it was not her fault. Did she actually select Bronn? She didn't give him the crossbow...

Or maybe it was just bad writing.

Yes, she allegedly selected him...at least, that's what Qyburn said when he handed Bronn the crossbow.

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38 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

Quaiths warning in the books has foreshadowed Tyrion’s betrayal. Since Martin said major plots stay the same, I expect Tyrion to betray her. 

Tyrion has already betrayed her, he admitted as much in S7: "Daenerys didn't want to bring you words, she wanted to bring you fire and blood until I advised her otherwise. I never wanted to hurt my family I never have!"

He prioritized keeping his own family alive to the detriment to the war plan of the queen he serves as hand to.
That's a betrayal no matter how you twist and turn it. He might betray her again in S8, but then it would hardly be the first time. 

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2 hours ago, Timm said:

I think we are looking at the same thing from two sides.

Why send an assassin? Why send Bronn?

 

2 hours ago, Timm said:

So why would Cersei send a sell sword to kill him?

Unless there was a code in what Bronn said to them...

Ok, so if Cersei sent Bronn just to deliver them a message to act, and we assume they are still with Cersei, why didn't he just say it out loud and not threaten to kill them. There was no one else in the room. Does it mean that only the other brother is in with the plan and got the message?

Tyrion sounds more likely then. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Deminelle said:

 

Ok, so if Cersei sent Bronn just to deliver them a message to act, and we assume they are still with Cersei, why didn't he just say it out loud and not threaten to kill them. There was no one else in the room. Does it mean that only the other brother is in with the plan and got the message?

Tyrion sounds more likely then. 

Yes, this is what I fear. Tyrion is with Cersei and Cersei, once Jaime left her for Winterfell, didn’t mention that to him. But it’s hard to make a sense of it because Jaime and Tyrion have always been close and in good terms. So why does Tyrion keep Jaime in the dark?

So Tyrion buys Bronn. Jaime is more compromised, now that Bronn knows that he and Brienne are lovers.

I rewatched the scene where Qyburn charges Bronn with the task... Bronn says: “The queen wants me to kill someone but she cannot send her soldiers to do it”... well, it’s clear why she cannot send Lannister guards or soldiers, but she has 20,000 mercenaries from the Golden Company and perhaps so many Ironborn to choose from. I’m sure Euron would love to kill both or has enough people who could do it. Why Bronn?

Because Tyrion can inform him that the fleet is leaving the day after. So that Cersei can send the Ironborn for a proper welcome. In fact they have been taken by surprise, haven’t they? 

And once Jaime hears of the ambush to the fleet fleet, he understands his brother is no longer supporting Dany. So, either he decides to support his family (and we all expect that, since he said that himself) or the real twist is: He's the one who tear Cersei down. And we have been saying that as well. 

What is gonna be?

Edited by Ranger Kragin

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1 minute ago, Ranger Kragin said:

Yes, this is what I fear. Tyrion is with Cersei and Cersei, once Jaime left her for Winterfell, didn’t mention that to him. But it’s hard to make a sense of it because Jaime and Tyrion have always been close and in good terms. So why does Tyrion keep Jaime in the dark?

So Tyrion buys Bronn. Jaime is more compromised, now that Bronn knows that he and Brienne are lovers.

I rewatched the scene where Qyburn charges Bronn with the task... Bronn says: “The queen wants me to kill someone but she cannot send her soldiers to do it”... well, it’s clear why she cannot send Lannister guards or soldiers, but she has 20,000 mercenaries from the Golden Company and perhaps so many Ironborn to choose from. I’m sure Euron would love to kill both or has enough people who could do it. Why Bronn?

Because Tyrion can inform him that the fleet is leaving the day after. So that Cersei can send the Ironborn for a proper welcome. In fact they have been taken by surprise, haven’t they? 

I wish that was true (even though the Cersei - Tyrion alliance seems so far fetched according to their history) but at least this would be a clever twist instead of another stupid meeting with Bron intending to lead nowhere. 

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Ok. Now you have me at least considering that Tyrion is in league with Cersei. I remember the look on Tyrion's face when he saw Jon making the booty call to Dany's room in season 7. He looked devastated. He also had a private audience with Cersei in the ep when they brought the WW to show Cersei. I suppose it could be possible. Improbable, but possible. But if true, it doesn't appear that Jaime is in on the conspiracy. I know many believe he took off for KL to kill Cersei, but I think Cersei will kill Jaime. It's just the type of lame twist D&D would pull.

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@Lady Dayne so you are suggesting that Tyrion is sending Jaime to a trap. That would be indeed Machiavellian on Tyrion’s side, considering that his brother has always been kind to him and saved his life.

I cannot think of a reason why Tyrion would keep Jaime in the dark. While I am almost 100% sure that Tyrion sold Dany to Cersei already in season 7.

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Posted (edited)

The series has come to an extremely delicate part for most of the characters developments. GRRM must have ideas where he wants the characters to peak. I was expecting big things from Tyrion, and potentially there will be a major revelation in the next episode but would him selling out Dany be too obvious? Or is Varys almost acting as a smokescreen, making us all believe it will be him to finally be rid of, but to turn the tables on Tyrion, he after all has the ability to manipulate almost anyone as we’ve seen.

On a personal note I love the highly unlikely Tyrion the Targaryen theory....but that would crazy right? 

Edited by Calaryion

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46 minutes ago, Ranger Kragin said:

@Lady Dayne so you are suggesting that Tyrion is sending Jaime to a trap. That would be indeed Machiavellian on Tyrion’s side, considering that his brother has always been kind to him and saved his life.

I cannot think of a reason why Tyrion would keep Jaime in the dark. While I am almost 100% sure that Tyrion sold Dany to Cersei already in season 7.

No, no...I don't believe Tyrion would ever do that to Jaime. If Tyrion is in league with Cersei (and I'm not sold on that theory), Jaime is unaware of it. My belief that Cersei will kill Jaime is wholly unrelated to the alleged conspiracy. 

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Well as most spoilers give it know

Spoiler

Tyrion will betray Dany to rescue Jamie 

Which is probably the most predicable since Jamie get back to the capital to be with Cersei. :ack:

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Hrm. I don't think Tyrion is getting less smart, he's getting more moral. He's always had that element to his character - he was right to chastise Joffrey all the way back in episode 2 of the series - but on the whole his arc has been to go from an amoral lout, to a practical but Machiavellian schemer, to a moral advisor. He's not wrong in his advice to Dany, even if it doesn't result in strategic victory. If Cersei can abdicate peacefully, the moral thing is to try to persuade her to do just that. And while Tyrion has grown so much he can even find it in his heart to believe Cersei has some goodness in her that can be redeemed, the reverse is not true. Cersei blames Tyrion for killing both her parents, and if there was a message in sending Bronn with Joffrey's crossbow it was that Cersei still hasn't forgotten or forgiven how Tyrion used that same crossbow.

Jaime is harder for me to read right now. He could have been a good man, and his time with Brienne has shown him that. But he's addicted to Cersei and he lets that relationship give him permission to be a very bad man. So either he's redeemed and he is going back to the Keep to kill his addiction, or he realizes he damned himself a long time ago and neither deserves nor even truly desires the life of a good man.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Nightwish said:

Well as most spoilers give it know

  Reveal hidden contents

Tyrion will betray Dany to rescue Jamie 

Which is probably the most predicable since Jamie get back to the capital to be with Cersei. :ack:

That makes no sense, but then not a single leak these days seems to make any form of sense...

Seems D&D are dead set on making us hate every single character by the end...

Edited by MinscS2

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