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Daenerys has always been a killer

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6 minutes ago, adiman83 said:

Don't compare an injured dragon that could barely keep himself in the air with Drogon. Both in that episode as well as episode 5, Euron's fleet failed miserably to hit Drogon. As for her political abilities, I agree she has no talent for politics. Her only real talent is conquest, as Daario pointed out. But what lord of Westeros (or Essos) do you think will dare to challenge her rule? Considering what she did to King's Landing, she wouldn't have shied away form burning the lands and people of anyone in open rebellion. Knowing your family might be ash tomorrow serves as a pretty good deterrent.

Now the question is would her descendants manage to hold on to her potential empire? I believe the answer is no. It was the same during the Conqueror's time. As long as he ruled, the former kingdoms didn't rebel because they were afraid they would share Harren the Black's fate. But his successors slowly started to lose grip on the seven kingdoms. 

She knew where Euron's fleet were standing and she sky dived on them in the second time, as I said all it takes one ambush with Ballista scorpions. Bronn managed to hit Drogon's shoulder, if it was the head instead of the shoulder she was finished.

Daenerys simply didn't have any plan for the future, she just wanted to take the kingdoms, even when she knows she can't have children, if she cared about House Targaryen she would support Jon's claim as he was the only one who could further the Targaryen line, so I guess she doesn't care about the future.

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On 5/13/2019 at 2:03 AM, Raksha 2014 said:

 

We probably should have guessed, when she watched her brother's horrible death with no discernible emotion, and said 'he was no true dragon; fire cannot kill a dragon' or whatever.  (not that I thought Viserys didn't deserve to die, but he was her brother and you'd think she'd have regretted, afterwards, his being such a fool as to push Drogo into killing him)

Daenerys used to care about all the smallfolk; but not anymore; she just roasted thousands of them and also caused them to die from the collapse of the buildings her dragonfire destroyed.

He was clearly insane, a terrible person to be ruler, and had just threatened to stab Dany in the belly and kill her and the unborn child she carried... He most likely sexually molested her ask well, was constantly abusive (I would let his 10000 horses fuck you also if it got me my throne) etc etc.  Watching an evil person who deserves to be killed, get killed, and showing a lack of empathy is not a sign of Dany's evil heart or evil nature or anything like it.  It shows that she has grown beyond her petty tyrant brother.  Also he did about everything possible to get himself executed, they should have replaced her line of "he is no true dragon" with "Fucking A, about time!  Were you planning on waiting until after he murdered your queen in front of everyone?"  

Edited by Mindrot

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Compassion and mercy is an important distinguishing feature in the series. Viserys begged for his life, and they were kin. How Dany acted during the execution is in contrast to Sansa shedding tears over executing LF, and Jon killing Dany. She's always had something a bit "off" to me, couldn't put my finger on it...but now we know she was a hidden villain.

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On 10/26/2019 at 12:15 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

Compassion and mercy is an important distinguishing feature in the series. Viserys begged for his life, and they were kin. How Dany acted during the execution is in contrast to Sansa shedding tears over executing LF, and Jon killing Dany. She's always had something a bit "off" to me, couldn't put my finger on it...but now we know she was a hidden villain.

Was LF only minutes before threatening to kill Sansa and her unborn child?  Same for Jon and Dany.  Dany had a lifetime of experience of what her brother was really like, his behaviors, his vile actions etc.  Did Sansa shed a tear when Ramsey was being eaten by his dogs or did she have a smile on her face?  Over and over again we see Dany's compassion is reserved for people that have been victimized, like her.  Viserys was not a victim, he was a PoS that deserved his crown, Dany better than any other person would know this, certainly a Dany whos eyes are being opened by her new Dothraki experiences.

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25 minutes ago, Mindrot said:

Was LF only minutes before threatening to kill Sansa and her unborn child?  Same for Jon and Dany.  Dany had a lifetime of experience of what her brother was really like, his behaviors, his vile actions etc.  Did Sansa shed a tear when Ramsey was being eaten by his dogs or did she have a smile on her face?  Over and over again we see Dany's compassion is reserved for people that have been victimized, like her.  Viserys was not a victim, he was a PoS that deserved his crown, Dany better than any other person would know this, certainly a Dany whos eyes are being opened by her new Dothraki experiences.

The anti-Daenerys arguments get ever more bizarre. Viserys had just threatened to murder her and her child, and had abused her for years.  Why would she be anything other than cold.  Being cold is the normal reaction in that situation.  Leaving aside the fact that the matter is not in Dany's hands anyway.

As for Sansa, of course she's not crying for LF.  She's just sentenced him to death, summarily.  Her tears are for her family.

 

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11 minutes ago, SeanF said:

As for Sansa, of course she's not crying for LF.  She's just sentenced him to death, summarily.  Her tears are for her family.

Nope:

"She (Sophie) was great, because she showed that Sansa really felt conflicted about it (killing Littlefinger) by the end. It’s in real contrast with Dany when she executes people, she (Dany) doesn’t show any hint of compassion or mercy.” - David Benioff Season 7 commentary

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45 minutes ago, Mindrot said:

Was LF only minutes before threatening to kill Sansa and her unborn child?  Same for Jon and Dany.  Dany had a lifetime of experience of what her brother was really like, his behaviors, his vile actions etc.  Did Sansa shed a tear when Ramsey was being eaten by his dogs or did she have a smile on her face?  Over and over again we see Dany's compassion is reserved for people that have been victimized, like her.  Viserys was not a victim, he was a PoS that deserved his crown, Dany better than any other person would know this, certainly a Dany whos eyes are being opened by her new Dothraki experiences.

It is still a contrast. I don't really care if he is executed, but it's the method of it (unnecessarily cruel) and how she responded: "Fire cannot kill a dragon." LOL yes it can.

The way Dany was executed herself was also cruel, so what goes around comes around. Show compassion and mercy and you'll be repaid with it. Dany never did that to others so...now she knows how it feels.

The Ramsay-Sansa scene is, of course, never happening in the books and was added at Sophie Turner's request.

 

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4 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Nope:

"She (Sophie) was great, because she showed that Sansa really felt conflicted about it (killing Littlefinger) by the end. It’s in real contrast with Dany when she executes people, she (Dany) doesn’t show any hint of compassion or mercy.” - David Benioff Season 7 commentary

And, you rely on David Benioff, who was lauding Daenerys as a heroine in previous seasons?  We know by now that Inside the Episode bore no relation to what was happening on screen,

Crying over the person you execute is not generally a good look.  It denotes hypocrisy.  There was no conflict here.  She and Arya had decided to kill him in advance of the meeting.  Not that I blame them.  But, there was nothing LF could have done that would have saved his life.

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11 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

It is still a contrast. I don't really care if he is executed, but it's the method of it (unnecessarily cruel) and how she responded: "Fire cannot kill a dragon." LOL yes it can.

The way Dany was executed herself was also cruel, so what goes around comes around. Show compassion and mercy and you'll be repaid with it. Dany never did that to others so...now she knows how it feels.

The Ramsay-Sansa scene is, of course, never happening in the books and was added at Sophie Turner's request.

 

Dany had no control over her brother's execution, or the manner of it, as you well know.  Dany showed compassion and mercy towards hundreds thousands of people in Slavers Bay.

Sansa of course, did have control over LF's death, and could have chosen to show him mercy and compassion, had she wished.  She did not wish to.

What's worse?  Cutting someone's throat, and shedding a tear over it, or reacting coldly to the death of an abuser, over which you have no control?

Edited by SeanF

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2 minutes ago, SeanF said:

And, you rely on David Benioff, who was lauding Daenerys as a heroine in previous seasons?  We know by now that Inside the Episode bore no relation to what was happening on screen,

Crying over the person you execute is not generally a good look.  It denotes hypocrisy.  There was no conflict here.  She and Arya had decided to kill him in advance of the meeting.  Not that I blame them.  But, there was nothing LF could have done that would have saved his life.

Benioff has said Sansa is his favorite character multiple times. I think he doesn't understand her, but I believe him when he says that, because Sansa is one of the most hated ASOIAF characters. 

And Dany is a heroine in many ways. What's wrong with that?

I do think her crying is true to the book character. Sansa wouldn't like killing anyone, period. Her response to Joffrey is the same way: 

Quote

“He had not been dead when she left the throne room. He had been on his knees, though, clawing at his throat, tearing at his own skin as he fought to breathe. The sight of it had been too terrible to watch, and she had turned and fled, sobbing. Lady Tanda had been fleeing as well. “You have a good heart, my lady,” she said to Sansa. “Not every maid would weep so for a man who set her aside and wed her to a dwarf.”

 

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2 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Benioff has said Sansa is his favorite character multiple times. I think he doesn't understand her, but I believe him when he says that, because Sansa is one of the most hated ASOIAF characters. 

And Dany is a heroine in many ways. What's wrong with that?

I do think her crying is true to the book character. Sansa wouldn't like killing anyone, period. Her response to Joffrey is the same way: 

 

Well, sure.  Sansa of the books is a completely separate character from that of the show.  Book Sansa would definitely have huge qualms about killing someone.

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26 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Dany had no control over her brother's execution, or the manner of it, as you well know. 

I disagree that Dany had no control in that situation over the manner of Viserys' death. Drogo would have listened to her if she wanted him executed in a less barbaric way. But this scene showed Dany was ALL Dothraki and foreshadowed her becoming more like her brother. It served its purpose. 

26 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Dany showed compassion and mercy towards hundreds thousands of people in Slavers Bay.

It's easy to show compassion to people who look up to you as some kind of demi-god/savior. The contrast is how characters respond to enemies/awful people who still (no matter how awful they are) experience pain and suffering. Mocking him for not being "a dragon" was just unnecessary and supremacist. That's why Sansa's scene with Ramsay was so off-book. They wrote her to be more like Dany. 

26 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Sansa of course, did have control over LF's death, and could have chosen to show him mercy and compassion, had she wished.  She did not wish to.

 What's worse?  Cutting someone's throat, and shedding a tear over it, or reacting coldly to the death of an abuser, over which you have no control?

The point is that Sansa felt sorrow of some kind and this indicates that she has her humanity intact. They repeated the contrast with Sam/Dany in Season 8. Dany is missing ...something. And that's why she ends up murdering a ton of people. There is a through-line from Viserys to King's Landing. 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I disagree that Dany had no control in that situation over the manner of Viserys' death. Drogo would have listened to her if she wanted him executed in a less barbaric way. But this scene showed Dany was ALL Dothraki and foreshadowed her becoming more like her brother. It served its purpose. 

It's easy to show compassion to people who look up to you as some kind of demi-god/savior. The contrast is how characters respond to enemies/awful people who still (no matter how awful they are) experience pain and suffering. Mocking him for not being "a dragon" was just unnecessary and supremacist. That's why Sansa's scene with Ramsay was so off-book. They wrote her to be more like Dany. 

The point is that Sansa felt sorrow of some kind and this indicates that she has her humanity intact. They repeated the contrast with Sam/Dany in Season 8. Dany is missing ...something. And that's why she ends up murdering a ton of people. There is a through-line from Viserys to King's Landing. 

I also think her reaction is a character moment that doesn't make much sense by itself but when its put together, 

Daenerys is a privileged sex slave.  If you or I were in Daenerys' position, you or I (anyone really) would react similarly.  We would be in a state of shock, after nearly being murdered.  It would not "foreshadow" our becoming multiple murderers.

As it happens, the relevant chapter of AGOT does show her trying to save Viserys, by offering the dragon eggs,  She just knows there's nothing she can do once he's threatened to murder her.

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44 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Well, sure.  Sansa of the books is a completely separate character from that of the show.  Book Sansa would definitely have huge qualms about killing someone.

I think it's important though that this is Joffrey and then Littlefinger, both people who abused her. She's not calling them cowards or weak as they're screaming in agony or choking to death. 

21 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Daenerys is a privileged sex slave.  If you or I were in Daenerys' position, you or I (anyone really) would react similarly.  We would be in a state of shock, after nearly being murdered.  It would not "foreshadow" our becoming multiple murderers.

I mean sure? I can put myself in Dany's shoes. Doesn't mean that there isn't a larger point here about characterization. 

Scenes build on one another.

Otherwise it's just the story of a girl who was abused by her brother, nothing more than that. 

The cycle of abuse appears to be going on with Dany. 

21 minutes ago, SeanF said:

As it happens, the relevant chapter of AGOT does show her trying to save Viserys, by offering the dragon eggs,  She just knows there's nothing she can do once he's threatened to murder her.

Dany is right to kill Viserys but I do think there are foils here that are important later, as her brutality continues to build. 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

 

Dany is right to kill Viserys but I do think there are foils here that are important later, as her brutality continues to build. 

She did not kill him.  I think a lot of people (like Arianne Martell) will assume that she plotted with her husband for him to die, but we know that is not the case.

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3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

She did not kill him.  I think a lot of people (like Arianne Martell) will assume that she plotted with her husband for him to die, but we know that is not the case.

Okay. Sansa didn't kill LF then either I guess? I dont know where you're going with this. 

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15 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Okay. Sansa didn't kill LF then either I guess? I dont know where you're going with this. 

Sansa was the one in charge, and authorised Arya to cut his throat. Arya looked to her for approval, before going ahead.

Daenerys was not in charge at Vaes Dothrak, and had no authority in this situation.

Edited by SeanF

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1 hour ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Okay. Sansa didn't kill LF then either I guess? I dont know where you're going with this. 

I'm still disappointed that she didn't kill Littlefinger herself.

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21 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

I'm still disappointed that she didn't kill Littlefinger herself.

It would have been rather, messy, I imagine. Arya is practised at cutting throats, whereas Sansa would probably need several goes.

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