Heartofice Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, JEORDHl said: While not much, I'm a little surprised criticism of Joker along these lines really bothers anyone. Kind of fascinating that it's predominantly men taking umbrage, though. Possibly because unjust criticism of a movie is demonstrative of parts of the media and internet that has a tendency to over react and create moral panic as part of its day job? Its a bit reminiscent of panic over playing records backwards and hearing satanic messages, that level of crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 @ Jace: Art lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Just now, JEORDHl said: Art lol Yeah? Someone had a vision. A short-sighted, shallow, pointless vision by all accounts. But a vision. I want more movies like that, not less. Look at what gets released upon the public these days. Tag, Night School, Ant Man and the Wasp, Justice League, The Hangover 14- The ReHangedining. I never at any point wanted to watch Joker until it's at my local library. But at least it looked like a fucking movie. Which, when not sterilized by a committee demanding focus-tested segments or dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, are supposed to be art. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Are you kidding right now, I can't tell lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 No. I'm pretty pro-expression. Actually having something to say is generally a prerequisite for me, which is why I have no intention of seeing this in theaters, but just trying to say something is how low the bar is for me to defend a Hollywood production these days. Or even, as it sounds in this case, knowing to try and say something even if it completely bungles the attempt. That's a helluva lot more artistic than Avatar 2000, Teryminator Genisis, or the Disney remakes. You want to give me reasons you feel differently or keep declaring a film you haven't seen needs censoring because of a stupid media controversy? One that inspired no actual violence, I'll add. Again, I haven't even seen the film and don't plan to in the near future. I'm just defending its right to exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I don't recall explicitly stating the film needs to be censored. Perhaps you can link me to that. Making observations about problematic associations, those I've definitely done. edited to add: You've made a good point though. I'll go see it this weekend and see for myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 3 hours ago, JEORDHl said: My criticism is less about what Philips [Phillips?] was trying to do with the actual movie-- and rather more about considering what some entitled, angry little white dude might think while watching AF more or less take his shit out on people. I don't think I'd even blame the movie per se, if it actually inspired one of them to violence. But... But. 2 hours ago, JEORDHl said: I don't know if I see a connection between films so much as a correlation between the radicalization of trademark angry little white supremacist and/or self professed incel misogynist types. It's them that we need to get a handle on. If they can be triggered by excessive Fox or Ben Shapiro viewing, etc etc, and they can, why can't they likewise be triggered by a movie that attempts to validate a Joker type murderer? 1 hour ago, JEORDHl said: I don't know if there is a solution. I'd certainly say we, as a society, should be more thoughtful however. It's unfortunate that we have to consider their feelings, but it's likely been the lack of concern that's led to their problematic identifications. So I'll concede that you didn't say the film should be censored. But am I the asshole for interpreting the above comments as painting the film in the light of something that shouldn't be allowed? Three different posts in succession where you stop just short of actually stating the film triggers violence and is a public danger. Am I misunderstanding what your loaded "but..." "But." and "why can't they likewise be triggered" and little call on society to conform to idiots was going for? If I misunderstood I apologize and we can shut this shit down right now. But... But. Looks to me like you were soft-pitching that the movie is dangerous and rabble-rousing and clutching your pearls. Didn't one of the texts to shared from your brother state that no one should see the film? Am I reading too much into your comments? Let me know if I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Nah. Saying [or sharing in that case] 'no one needs to see it' is hardly advocating that it should be pulled from theaters, Jace. Everyone, or critics I should say, can get bent about Fox, bent about Shapiro, Peterson, whatever, and the influence such programming has on mass shooters etc [it's documented] but film gets a pass because 'art'? If I've made a strong stand on anything, it's that we should be thoughtful. Like I said in my earlier edit however, I'll go and see it this weekend. I won't be hesitating to share my thoughts on that either, I suspect. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, JEORDHl said: Nah. Saying [or sharing in that case] 'no one needs to see it' is hardly advocating that it should be pulled from theaters, Jace. Everyone, or critics I should say, can get bent about Fox, bent about Shapiro, Peterson, whatever, and the influence such programming has on mass shooters etc [it's documented] but film gets a pass because 'art'? If I've made a strong stand on anything, it's that we should be thoughtful. Like I said in my earlier edit however, I'll go and see it this weekend. I won't be hesitating to share my thoughts on that either, I suspect. :p There is no significant indicator that suggests art influences violence. Fox, Shapiro, and Alex Jones however, are not art. I know Jones calls himself a 'performance artist' to avoid litigation, but there's a steep motherfucking difference between men and harpies selling themselves as beacons of light in a (real) world of darkness telling young incels that there are pedophile rings in the basement of a pizza parlor. Versus going to a dark room with 200 other people to watch a series of pictures run at 24 frames per second with accompanied auditory effects depicting a fictional story about a killer clown. Really, really, really, different. Eminem already beat this rap in the 2000's, Tipper Gore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I'm not as confident about that as you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Why is it such a problem to be critical of a film, or art in generañ for that matter. Like why is it sooo controversial to say that incels might identify with protagonist of joker or taxi driver. Im nont calling for the removal of this movie from all movie theaters, just pointing out that there are a loooot of movies depicting white men being fucked by society and there rightous anger. And this is another movie that depicts that. Why Cant i say that i find that problematic?. Why is that so triggering?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 7 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said: Why is it such a problem to be critical of a film, or art in generañ for that matter. Like why is it sooo controversial to say that incels might identify with protagonist of joker or taxi driver. Im nont calling for the removal of this movie from all movie theaters, just pointing out that there are a loooot of movies depicting white men being fucked by society and there rightous anger. And this is another movie that depicts that. Why Cant i say that i find that problematic?. Why is that so triggering?. It’s totally fine to be critical of a movie if you have some sort of proof it causes violence. It also makes it a bit less ridiculous if you have in fact seen the movie in question. I’m pretty sure the actual problem here is people getting ‘triggered’ by violence that hasn’t happened, inspired by non existent themes and events in a movie they haven’t even watched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Heartofice said: It’s totally fine to be critical of a movie if you have some sort of proof it causes violence. It also makes it a bit less ridiculous if you have in fact seen the movie in question. I’m pretty sure the actual problem here is people getting ‘triggered’ by violence that hasn’t happened, inspired by non existent themes and events in a movie they haven’t even watched. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conflicting Thought Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, Heartofice said: It’s totally fine to be critical of a movie if you have some sort of proof it causes violence. It also makes it a bit less ridiculous if you have in fact seen the movie in question. I’m pretty sure the actual problem here is people getting ‘triggered’ by violence that hasn’t happened, inspired by non existent themes and events in a movie they haven’t even watched. I dont think you understand the critique being made. Real life violence is not necessary to critique this and other movies like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Just now, Conflicting Thought said: I dont think you understand the critique being made. Real life violence is not necessary to critique this and other movies like it. If the critique of this movie is that it might inspire real life violence then yeah firstly you’d wanna say what about this movie would do that, then maybe what proof you have that movies cause violence in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Nah. Think I'll say whatever the fuck I want, for whatever fucking reason I want. Only one on this board that's going to change that is a mod. All opinions welcome, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Oh damn, I'll take that as a tacit admission of defeat then. Score one for the... good? I don't think we're the good guys for defending the Joker movie... Shit. This must be what a public defender feels like when using a procedural lapse by the police to get his client who probably did it off scot free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Is everyone smoking crack today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 I mean, I'm totally prepared to be thoughtful about that, but not to some tool trying to tell me what the fucking rules of debate are lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 For someone having so many lols you seem pretty irritated. In an argument if you state "I'll say whatever the fuck I want, for whatever fucking reason I want." You have lost the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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