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hiemal

Cleganebowl at the Nightfort?

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This was the castle . . . where blind Symeon Star-Eyes had seen the hellhounds fighting.

ASoS

Obviously there are a lot of ways to read this, but I think it is not unreasonable to look for deeper meaning in anything a blind man is said to have seen. Keeping that in mind, I speculate that the vision could be prophetic and refer to the brothers Clegane, both of whom have gone through their own version of death and transformation (assuming the Gravedigger is a Hound and not a Red Herring).

Tinfoil artist that I am, I'm going to go ahead call it now- After the new Battle for the Dawn in the Land of Always Winter, the victors (including the erstwhile inhumer) will return to find that they have been betrayed and that the Lannisters have taken the Nightfort and Sandor, now likely a brother of the NW, and company will use the Black Gate to sneak back in and the Cleganebowl can finally commence.

Anyways, I'm curious to see if anyone else is thinking along similar lines and, of course, what other interpretations of Symeon's vision folks have come up with.

 

Edited by hiemal

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Hey Man, good to see you!   So hrm, prophecy?  Why Cleganes when it could easily be direwolves instead?  Geez, Brother, even sweet Shaggy Dog fights with sweet little unicorns!   

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1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

Hey Man, good to see you!   So hrm, prophecy?  Why Cleganes when it could easily be direwolves instead?  Geez, Brother, even sweet Shaggy Dog fights with sweet little unicorns!   

Who wants to see direwolves fighting? How dare you! But maybe Nymeria and her pack against RS. I'd be down for that :) 

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Cleganebowl is just a meme. It has no narrative or character development reason to exist, especially given the the Mountain is basically dead at this point.

Edited by Alyn Oakenfist

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7 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Hey Man, good to see you!   So hrm, prophecy?  Why Cleganes when it could easily be direwolves instead?  Geez, Brother, even sweet Shaggy Dog fights with sweet little unicorns!   

That was actually my first idea (well, in terms of prophecy anwyays- in all honesty my first reading is almost always completely literal), but this one popped into my head awhile back I constructed a "plausible" scenario in which it might play out mostly as an exercise in tinfoil cat's cradle because it has indeed been awhile. Good to see you as well :)

If it refers to Starks it would probably have been either a figurative representation of a past event or perhaps refer prophetically to a clash between Bran and Benjen?

As for what a blind man might "literally" see I don't have any specific tinfoil, but the idea is creepily appealing which may be enough in and of itself.

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6 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Cleganebowl is just a meme. It has no narrative or character development reason to exist, especially given the the Mountain is basically dead at this point.

I used to think so, but I'm basically on board now. You never know when GRRM is going to buck narrative "inevitability", though. As for the Mountain,

Quote

"Death and guest right," muttered Long Jeyne Heddle. "They don't mean so much as they used to, neither one."

AFfC

 

Edited by hiemal

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14 hours ago, hiemal said:

As for the Mountain

What would be the point of Sandor dueling the Mountain? He's very clearly no longer Gregor Clegane but rather just a mindless, obedient killing machine (I don't even want to think about whatever it has on it's shoulders given that Gregor's head was sent to Dorne). So what would Sandor get out of killing FrankenMountain? Also he seems to have moved past all the bitterness and finally found a purpose in life.

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52 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

What would be the point of Sandor dueling the Mountain? He's very clearly no longer Gregor Clegane but rather just a mindless, obedient killing machine (I don't even want to think about whatever it has on it's shoulders given that Gregor's head was sent to Dorne). So what would Sandor get out of killing FrankenMountain?

Well, in my hypothetical scenario above he gets into the Nightfort.

53 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

 Also he seems to have moved past all the bitterness and finally found a purpose in life.

Digging graves on Quiet Isle? I don't think that's where his story will end and he doesn't need to be motivated by the same hatred that originally moved him in order to fight his brother.

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19 hours ago, hiemal said:

That was actually my first idea (well, in terms of prophecy anwyays- in all honesty my first reading is almost always completely literal), but this one popped into my head awhile back I constructed a "plausible" scenario in which it might play out mostly as an exercise in tinfoil cat's cradle because it has indeed been awhile. Good to see you as well :)

If it refers to Starks it would probably have been either a figurative representation of a past event or perhaps refer prophetically to a clash between Bran and Benjen?

As for what a blind man might "literally" see I don't have any specific tinfoil, but the idea is creepily appealing which may be enough in and of itself.

My oft referenced friend had the same idea as you so rock on, Man.   Your tinfoil is always fun for helping to look at a possibility.   

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I can only see a fight between the brothers happening, if Sandor feels like he needs to protect someone or to give RS mercy or both.

If he wants to kill him just for revenge, then there was no character development and he'd better just stay on the quiet isle 

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54 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I can only see a fight between the brothers happening, if Sandor feels like he needs to protect someone or to give RS mercy or both.

If he wants to kill him just for revenge, then there was no character development and he'd better just stay on the quiet isle 

You can never tell with GRRM when he is going to favor gritty "realism" over narrative satisfaction so I could see it going either way; a redeemed or on-the-way-to-redemption Hound fighting for a noble cause that transcends personal feelings, or a Hound who decides that he can't ignore a lifetime's hate and falls into old patterns. I don't think the motivations are really key, however, and the satisfaction of seeing Sandor get to eat his cake and have it, too by being "forced" by circumstances into doing what he's wanted to do for most of his life anyways could be an appealing twist.

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On 1/15/2020 at 3:42 PM, hiemal said:

Obviously there are a lot of ways to read this, but I think it is not unreasonable to look for deeper meaning in anything a blind man is said to have seen. Keeping that in mind, I speculate that the vision could be prophetic and refer to the brothers Clegane, both of whom have gone through their own version of death and transformation (assuming the Gravedigger is a Hound and not a Red Herring).

Tinfoil artist that I am, I'm going to go ahead call it now- After the new Battle for the Dawn in the Land of Always Winter, the victors (including the erstwhile inhumer) will return to find that they have been betrayed and that the Lannisters have taken the Nightfort and Sandor, now likely a brother of the NW, and company will use the Black Gate to sneak back in and the Cleganebowl can finally commence.

Anyways, I'm curious to see if anyone else is thinking along similar lines and, of course, what other interpretations of Symeon's vision folks have come up with.

 

I like it. Not gonna happen, but I like it. 

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