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Eternally_His

Was Robb drugged?

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2 hours ago, Robb4Ever said:

I was inspired to make this by a rather interesting discussion that took place in another thread. Let's continue that here.

Robb knowingly broke his oath to Walder Frey.  He made that decision deliberately.  He is responsible for his decision.  Robb is an oath-breaker.  He crapped on old Walder Frey and deserved to lose the war.

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Does this then imply Jeyne raped him? Because she obviously liked him and knew nothing of her mother's plans. Also she was a virgin herself, so that seems quite unrealistic to me, that she would do something like that.

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27 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Does this then imply Jeyne raped him? Because she obviously liked him and knew nothing of her mother's plans. Also she was a virgin herself, so that seems quite unrealistic to me, that she would do something like that.

Nah. Not her. Her mom, on the other hand...... :ack:

After all, Sybil liked younger men. It is known. The seed is strong when sown. :devil:

Edited by Robb4Ever

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4 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

What? you mean the mom raped Robb? 

No. I mean that she drugged him and then he raped her daughter under the influence.

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5 minutes ago, Robb4Ever said:

No. I mean that she drugged him and then he raped her daughter under the influence.

Hm, okay... I just can't see what kind of drugs would make you do that... Also I don't think Sweetie would with or without drugs ever rape someone (and I'm a bit surprise you do?) I also don't think Jeyne would have wanted to marry Robb and have loved him so much, if he had done that.

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10 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Hm, okay... I just can't see what kind of drugs would make you do that... Also I don't think Sweetie would with or without drugs ever rape someone (and I'm a bit surprise you do?) I also don't think Jeyne would have wanted to marry Robb and have loved him so much, if he had done that.

I dunno. Talk to the person who first mentioned that he was drugged.

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I think it's more realistic, that he was just overwhelmed by grief, 16 years old, felt alone in the world and Jeyne and him being attracted to one another. But yeah maybe there is some magic potion, that makes two people desperately want to sleep with on another (but it's kinda weird that they then still felt attracted to each other afterwards)- it is a fantasy after all

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4 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I think it's more realistic, that he was just overwhelmed by grief, 16 years old, felt alone in the world and Jeyne and him being attracted to one another. But yeah maybe there is some magic potion, that makes two people desperately want to sleep with on another (but it's kinda weird that they then still felt attracted to each other afterwards)- it is a fantasy after all

Like I said, ask the person who first came up with 'Robb was drugged' thingy, rather than criticizing me. >.>

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You have two teenagers left alone, one consumed by grief, and the other probably encouraged to be more forward and willing than she normally would have been.  I don't think much more was really needed.  Also, we haven't been told elsewhere of any drugs that would work in this fashion.  So, no, he wasn't drugged.

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1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

@Nagini's Neville, @Robb4Ever is talking about the possibility that Sweetie was given a love potion by Jeyne's mother. It's not a new theory but @John Suburbs touched on it in another thread. 

Oh, merci, dear L<3R. Does that than mean he was under a spell the whole time? Jeyne as well? Wouldn't seem reasonable to only give him the potion and not Jeyne as well. Why take the risk of her to rebuffing his advances. And wouldn't her mom then try to reverse the spell after Sweetie's death? Because Jeyne is still very much in luuv with Sweetie. And also that's definitely some very strong magic. So maybe we should look out for Jeyne's mom.

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29 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Oh, merci, dear L<3R. Does that than mean he was under a spell the whole time? Jeyne as well? Wouldn't seem reasonable to only give him the potion and not Jeyne as well. Why take the risk of her to rebuffing his advances. And wouldn't her mom then try to reverse the spell after Sweetie's death? Because Jeyne is still very much in luuv with Sweetie. And also that's definitely some very strong magic. So maybe we should look out for Jeyne's mom.

I'm not sure about giving it to Jeyne or not but maybe it's something that can't be reversed? Or maybe it was given to Robb only after Jeyne expressed some feeling for him? 

She could indeed be a strong maegi or herbal woman or what have you. 

Where is John Suburbs when you need him? 

I'll see if I can find his tid bit in the other thread. He lays it out nicely. 

 

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Quote

 

Quote

 

Well, take a look at the history of house Spicer. First we have the original spice merchant who could have married the daughter of a business partner or a magistrate, most likely from Yi Ti, the spice capital of the Jade Sea, which would have gotten him a nice fat dowry and cemented his business relationships. But instead he takes a strange witch priestess from Asshai by the Shadow, which is known mostly for its trade in amber, dragonglass and other relatively low-value goods. Ultimately, this woman is banished or removes herself from her house and lives as a wretched old hag telling fortunes and selling love potions on the streets of Lannisport.

Then we have the son of this woman who, for no discernible reason, receives a lordship from Tytos Lannister. Now, lordships can be an empty title, as Varys and Petyr B demonstrate, but even these are not handed out for nothing. Kennelmaster Clegane was knighted and given lands and a keep for saving Tytos' life, so a lordship wouldn't require that level of service, but there should be something there -- something more important than introducing a particularly tasty saffron.

 

Quote

 

Next, we have Sybelle, who manages to land herself a Westerling who has "more honor than sense" by marrying the daughter of an upjumped merchant. Now, his children are not likely to increase the dwindling fortunes of his house because of their low pedigree.

Finally, we have Jeyne who, despite her low pedigree, manages to land not just a powerful lord but a king -- again, one who placed his honor above his kingdom.

So in four generations, the Spicer women have made three lucrative matches to men who should have known better, rising from creepy Asshai priestess to Queen in the North. Quite impressive.

There is also the matter of Jeyne's heart-shaped face. Only two other women are described in this way: Melisandre, creepy weird shadowbinder/whatever from Asshai, and Shiera Seastar, magical-type daughter of Aegon IV and magical-type Serenai of Lys. Shiera was also the object of ardent, even violent, passion from Brynden Bloodraven Rivers and Aegor Bittersteel Rivers.

And finally, if you look close, you can see Robb becoming increasingly cold and distant toward Jeyne as time goes by -- to the point where Jeyne seeks advice about it from Catelyn. Sure, this could just be the pressures of the crown weighing on him, but this girl he was so madly in love with just a few months before is no longer a source of strength and comfort to him -- a pretty rapid turnaround IMO.

Of course, none of this is absolute proof, but it does fit perfectly with Martin's style of seeding the text with clues before revealing it outright -- just enough to make you go hmmmmm.

So before we hang Robb out to dry for making a stupid mistake, I think we ought to give him the benefit of the doubt until all the facts are in. It could very well be that he was not in his right mind when all of this happened.

 

@Nagini's Neville here is the beginning of @John Suburbs post, I think there is one more I'll quote as well. 

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