Formula One 2020

[Werthead]

1 hour ago, Loge said:

Imola used to host the "GP of San Marino", but isn't actually located there, just like the Nürburgring isn't in Luxemburg.

Well yeah, I meant a return to the name, which I think many people were not expecting.

They need eight races for the championship to count and they have eight currently in hand, with four more officially happening, just postponed, and five more "pending."

Of the postponed, Bahrain is the most likely to happen, China will likely happen if they get this new outbreak in in Beijing under control and it doesn't spread to Shanghai, Vietnam is a bit up in the air but possible, and Canada depends on when it can be slotted into the calendar. Basically it's either 26 Juy - which the teams will object to, as flying to Canada from Hungary and then having to be back for Silverstone a week later will be a killer, or 13 September at the earliest, which is borderline for the weather.

Of the "pending," I can't see Texas happening, at all, as the virus is out of control there. Ditto for Mexico and Brazil, although all of those races are far enough off (end of October through mid-November) that they might be able to turn things around. Abu Dhabi seems pretty certain to happen as well. Russia depends on how the pandemic unfolds there and the degree to which they can isolate Sochi, so it's possible.

Actually, at the moment it looks like they could slot in a 10-race season finishing within the usual time constraints, rising to 14 if they can slot in China, Russia, Canada and Vietnam. So a bit short by recent standards but not disastrously so. It would be shortest season since 1980 though.

[Loge]

Apparently they need 15 races to fulfil their TV contracts. There's a total of 34 tracks or track variants that qualify: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/circuits_fia20200302.pdf 

No shortage of tracks in Europe and quite a few in the Middle East. Interestingly, Thailand has a Grade 1 track. And Sepang is still on the list. Not sure about the logistics, though.

[williamjm]

It feels like a lifetime ago that the Australian GP got called off with a couple of days ago but now we've finally seen the cars out on track. It's always a bit risky reading too much into practice times but initial indications are that Mercedes might be likely to continue their domination with a lead of about 0.6 seconds over the next cars (and Austria's a short track so that's a significant time gap). It looks like potentially more of a contest for the final podium position with Sergio Perez the slightly surprising next-fastest car with the Ferraris, Red Bulls, Renaults and McLaren relatively close behind. Sadly Williams still seem to be adrift at the back of the field.

[Loge]

Well, the Racing Point seems to be a carbon copy of last year's Mercedes, with the current power unit. Ferrari have stated that there is a serious problem with their car that only a major upgrade can fix. Red Bull and McLaren couldn't use their 2018 cars for testing because they don't have the power units any more, so they are a bit behind there.

[williamjm]

7 hours ago, Loge said:

Well, the Racing Point seems to be a carbon copy of last year's Mercedes, with the current power unit. Ferrari have stated that there is a serious problem with their car that only a major upgrade can fix.

Ferrari do look like they're in trouble, with both their drivers significantly slower than in qualifying in Austria last year, Vettel missing out on Q3 shows how poor this year's car seems to be for them.

Good performance by Bottas to beat Hamilton to pole (despite going off on his final attempt). It looks like the Mercedes are in a very strong position for the race although Verstappen starting on the harder tires might be a challenger as well.

McLaren also looking decent with Norris in fourth, maybe they could challenge for a podium if something goes a bit wrong for one of the top 3.

[Werthead]

Current rumour is that the FIA decided that Ferrari's 2019 engine wasn't quite legal but they reached a deal to allow Ferrari to save face but turn down their engine modes for this year. Ferrari seem to have hoped to make up for that through other improvements, but those improvements weren't working properly.

Strong evidence for that in that it's all the Ferrari-powered teams who are similarly in trouble. Alfa and Haas both looking shocking compared to last year's performance (at least at the start of the season). Last year there were five Ferrari engines in the top ten (half the field), whilst this year it's just one, and Leclerc had to pull out all the stops to manage that.

I wonder if Sainz is wondering he's made a colossal mistake, and Riccardio actually came out the better in that race between the Ferrari and McLaren seats for next year. Still, you can never count Ferrari out for too long.

Even given Ferrari's performance, Vettel was pretty poor. Lando Norris was excellent, Albon did a solid job, much closer to Verstappen than he was for most of last year, and Bottas putting down a strong marker against Hamilton (albeit on one of Hamilton's weakest tracks and Bottas's best single track).

Williams actually looked a lot better than they have done. Russell outqualified both Alfas and is not far at all from the Haas, so whilst they're not doing too great, they are clearly very strongly ahead of where they were last year and are now part of the trailing pack, rather than behind even them.

The team hierarchy will be interesting. At the moment it looks like Mercedes - Red Bull - McLaren - Racing Point - Ferrari - Renault. Ferrari need to be hoping that big update package for Hungary is good, otherwise they're going to be in for a nightmarish season. Of course, it's only one quali session and the races could be very different.

Team losses/gains versus 2019. Williams have made a huge step-up. Red Bull are going to be pissed about that change, especially when their sister team has done better.

1. Racing Point -0.921
2. Williams -0.737
3. Renault -0.493
4. McLaren -0.473
5. AlphaTauri -0.360
6. Mercedes -0.323s
7. Red Bull +0.038
8. Haas +0.619
9. Ferrari +0.920
10. Alfa Romeo +1.119

[williamjm]

21 hours ago, Werthead said:

Still, you can never count Ferrari out for too long.

After the qualifying struggles I don't think many would have picked them as ending up on the second step of the podium, it's a great result for Le Clerc in the circumstances. Their race pace seemed to be more competitive than their single lap performance but I think they'd still have struggled to do so well in a less eventful race.

I was a bit worried early on that this might turn into a Mercedes procession after Verstappen's unfortunate retirement but it did turn into a very entertaining race. I guess the reliability struggles aren't too big a surprise since this is the first race of the season at a deceptively tricky track, although it's got to be a concern for many teams that they'll be doing it all again next week for the first and probably only Styrian Grand Prix.

It is the perfect start for Bottas and he must be happy that the first two races in an abbreviated season are at what seems to be one of his favourite tracks. He didn't really put a foot wrong in the race, although he'll be a bit concerned about reliability worries next weekend. Great performance from Norris as well to get the final podium spot for McLaren. Albon could very nearly have been the hero of the day but he doesn't have much luck with trying to overtake Hamilton.

[Werthead]

Hamilton did seem to be significantly faster than Bottas on race trim but first the safety cars and then the gearboxes nearly failing on both cars helped Bottas maintain the victory.

Racing Point seems strong, but really that step forward only helped them draw level with McLaren, with not much between those two teams. McLaren do seem stronger strategically, which may prove the key to them getting ahead of Racing Point over the season. The question will be if they can perhaps overhaul a struggling Ferrari. Renault look like they've also made a nice step forwards, but between everyone else, they kind of got lost in the mix, and clearly aren't as strong as McLaren and Racing Point, but do seem to have drawn comfortably clear of Haas, AlphaTauri and Alfa Romeo.

Outstanding performance by Leclerc who did a bit of a Fernando Alonso and massively outdrove the car's limitations. Vettel was shit, and his post-race grumble about the car was a really bad idea. The last Ferrari driver who was that negative about the car after a race was fired instantly. Even Alonso wasn't quite that cavalier in his time.

Really bad result for Red Bull, but I suspect they'll bounce back quite quickly.

[polishgenius]

Vettel grumbling that it's all the car's fault when Leclerc took the same car to second is really telling on himself.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, polishgenius said:

Vettel grumbling that it's all the car's fault when Leclerc took the same car to second is really telling on himself.

I think leclerc also admitted the car was shit but his performance was championship winning in a way reminiscent of alonso and Schumacher in terms of getting a car into positions they had no right to be in.

I thought Norris was lucky to get away with his collision considering Hamilton's punishment (although i think Hamilton would have got away with it if albon hadn't lost so many places). As always with F1 penalties I don't mind as long as they are consistent.

I think bottas had the measure of Hamilton throughout in the sense I don't think he could have passed him on the road. I was relieved the safety car forced the pit stops as i was expecting mercedes to bring Hamilton in first and allow him time to perform the undertake on Bottas.

Take home for me is how far back the Ferrari engine has fallen since the fuel delivery system was banned. Across the board Ferrari cars are struggling. It was great to see McLaren looking like top 3 and racing point potentially top 4. I guess racing point is already transitioning into Aston Martin and the cash injection is starting to show.

[polishgenius]

17 minutes ago, red snow said:

I think leclerc also admitted the car was shit but his performance was championship winning in a way reminiscent of alonso and Schumacher in terms of getting a car into positions they had no right to be in.

Well exactly. We know the car is shit, we were expecting that, but one of the drivers drove the wheels off it and the other one had a bit of a whine and a moan.

eta: I mean what a don

https://twitter.com/giulyleclerc/status/1280012972384038912

[red snow]

3 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Well exactly. We know the car is shit, we were expecting that, but one of the drivers drove the wheels off it and the other one had a bit of a whine and a moan.

eta: I mean what a don

https://twitter.com/giulyleclerc/status/1280012972384038912

I suspect Vettel would have also been less whiny if he had finished second too. I'm not questioning le clerc's performance but I think F1 has done a good job of making Vettel into a whiny villain when it's not fully deserved and that's coming from someone who does think he's over-rated (In that I'm starting to think the best i can say about him is that he's better than Webber and Raikonnen). Speaking of whiny I was impressed by Hamilton's mature interview post race where he took the penalty on the chin. 

It'll be interesting to see how they all approach the same race as the results weren't exactly representative of actual car speed/performance. Will Mercedes sort out their sensor issues in time or will they have to avoid the kerbs? What would Verstappen do with a car that doesn't break down? etc, etc. 

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

I suspect Vettel would have also been less whiny if he had finished second too.

Sure, and even Leclerc pretty openly said the car was bad at the finish, but the point is that Vettel making himself out purely to be let down by the car doesn't look good when his teammate did miracles

[red snow]

52 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Sure, and even Leclerc pretty openly said the car was bad at the finish, but the point is that Vettel making himself out purely to be let down by the car doesn't look good when his teammate did miracles

It certainly isn't helping him secure a drive elsewhere. Did you see that Vettel, Horner and Marko got a warning/slap on the wrist for having visible discussions? 

I can't really see how Vettel could return to red bull as Albon seems to be a less problematic number two driver but it is interesting how he's chatting with them and i imagine Ferrari won't be happy as even info on how Ferrari is crap is probably useful information for rival teams.

[polishgenius]

Yeah he's really gotta be careful, Alonso is proof that no driver is safe from being not wanted by any of the top teams if they moan and talk too much and Alonso was, it is proving, a much better driver than Vettel. If he drops into the middle pack he's going to find it very tough to prove his way back.

[Werthead]

Just realised that if Hamilton wins this season, he'll become the first driver to win a world championship in three different decades, presumably a record that can never be beaten (unless we get a driver who's going to be driving into his late forties and still winning championships, which seems very unlikely).

5 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Yeah he's really gotta be careful, Alonso is proof that no driver is safe from being not wanted by any of the top teams if they moan and talk too much and Alonso was, it is proving, a much better driver than Vettel. If he drops into the middle pack he's going to find it very tough to prove his way back.

Vettel should recall that Alain Prost - an infinitely superior driver and a much more respected one - was fired mid-season by Ferrari in 1991 for saying the car was handling like a truck in Spain (which was a relatively mild comment, also fairly accurate as his power steering had failed). There was a lot more weird grumbling going on behind the scenes, but just a couple of races earlier Prost was being touted for a promotion to team principal as well as as main driver (which would have been weird). Obviously a different era, but Ferrari clearly see Vettel as being quite disposable at the moment, especially when they have both Giovanazzi and Wehrlein available to put in the car immediately (Giovanazzi they'd have to faff around finding a replacement for Alfa, but that shouldn't bee to much of a problem).

[red snow]

16 hours ago, polishgenius said:

Yeah he's really gotta be careful, Alonso is proof that no driver is safe from being not wanted by any of the top teams if they moan and talk too much and Alonso was, it is proving, a much better driver than Vettel. If he drops into the middle pack he's going to find it very tough to prove his way back.

Alonso's off track behaviour is part of the reason he's not driving which seems ridiculous but the shit he pulled with McLaren when ratting them out to Ferrari when he was Hamilton's team-mate makes it more surprising he ever raced with a non Ferrari team.

I think unless he finds himself at mercedes, red bull or a development position with Aston Martin he may as well quit rather than diminish his legacy further. I think the aston Martin move could work as it brings another dimension and he does seem quite interested in the technical side of the sport.

I guess if someone starts their career in 2029 they have a chance of breaking the 3 decade, 3 championship rule as you can do within 11 years. But it's unlikely for anyone winning their first championship in mid 2020s to achieve. Max can forget about it and leclerc.

[Werthead]

And so it begins.

Quote

Fernando Alonso is set to return to Formula 1 with Renault next year.

Alonso on a two-year contract with Renault. This also ends Vettel's only realistic hope of remaining in F1. Now it will come down to Mercedes and the chances of him getting Bottas's seat are approximately 1 in 10,000.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, Werthead said:

And so it begins.

Alonso on a two-year contract with Renault. This also ends Vettel's only realistic hope of remaining in F1. Now it will come down to Mercedes and the chances of him getting Bottas's seat are approximately 1 in 10,000.

I really hope it works out for him and that Renault can come close to matching mclaren's performance. It still seems painful how after all that time with the awful mclaren honda that he's going to be joining renault in a worse position than mclaren renault.

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

I really hope it works out for him and that Renault can come close to matching mclaren's performance. It still seems painful how after all that time with the awful mclaren honda that he's going to be joining renault in a worse position than mclaren renault.

Alonso may have been a great driver but he was often terrible at picking teams. I suppose at least the Renault might be an upgrade on the McLaren Honda even if as you say McLaren themselves are also better than their previous incarnation.