867-5309 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Stoneheart is what happens to those who are consumed by the thoughts of revenge. She is what Arya is becoming and will become. They are both grotesque. Aegon Frey and the old insurance man are collateral damage to their madness. Martin wants to show how obscene revenge is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Arya is a story of vengeance, not mercy. Sandor asked for mercy and Arya decided he doesnt deserve it. She can tell Polliver her names whatever she wants, we know its vengeance. Mercy is not in her arc, neither is kinslaying. I mean, who kills their mother? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narsil4 Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I've sorta gotten the impression that the deaths of Beric might parallel the Emperors of the GEotD, with Stoneheart representing the Amethyst Empress. So it might be Edmure that ends her suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Hugorfonics said: Arya is a story of vengeance, not mercy. Sandor asked for mercy and Arya decided he doesnt deserve it. She can tell Polliver her names whatever she wants, we know its vengeance. Mercy is not in her arc, neither is kinslaying. I mean, who kills their mother? Arya is a character arc. Shit changes, that's the point. Character has one position, undergoes learning experiences, takes a new position. You're either being wilfully ignorant or not reading carefully enough, as her arc has already progressed past things you've listed as defining her. Quote The Titan's eyes seemed brighter now, and farther apart. Arya did not know any Many-Faced God, but if he answered prayers, he might be the god she sought. Ser Gregor, she thought, Dunsen, Raff the Sweetling, Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei. Only six now. Joffrey was dead, the Hound had slain Polliver, and she'd stabbed the Tickler herself, and that stupid squire with the pimple. I wouldn't have killed him if he hadn't grabbed me. The Hound had been dying when she left him on the banks of the Trident, burning up with fever from his wound. I should have given him the gift of mercy and put a knife into his heart. Mercy not in her arc? I don't know, maybe GRRM will provide us a hint otherwise in the coming books, doing something like having her literally take Mercy for a name or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 55 minutes ago, chrisdaw said: Arya is a character arc. Shit changes, that's the point. Character has one position, undergoes learning experiences, takes a new position. You're either being wilfully ignorant or not reading carefully enough, as her arc has already progressed past things you've listed as defining her. Mercy not in her arc? I don't know, maybe GRRM will provide us a hint otherwise in the coming books, doing something like having her literally take Mercy for a name or something. She didnt think he deserved it. Perhaps at the time she equated mercy with vengeance, its like what the Lannisters said, Quote "You promised him vengeance as well." "I promised him justice." "Call it what you will. It still comes down to blood." Its all blood. Your quote kinda reinforces this idea, that vengeful list and the graphic description of a knife in the heart being a gift are the same in her mind Like even if you give her the name of Mercy she wears it as descriptively as a Cat or Weasel. Quote "Mercy," she said. "My name is Mercy. Can you say it?" "Mercy," he said. "My name is Raff." "I know." Does that sound like a Weasel? Raff is not seeking suicide like an obsidian slave miner yet Arya still heard mercy. Catelyn used to be upset when Arya didnt comb her hair or fold her clothes, but I dont think shes gonna make Aryas list for that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 16 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: She didnt think he deserved it. Perhaps at the time she equated mercy with vengeance, its like what the Lannisters said, Its all blood. Your quote kinda reinforces this idea, that vengeful list and the graphic description of a knife in the heart being a gift are the same in her mind Like even if you give her the name of Mercy she wears it as descriptively as a Cat or Weasel. Does that sound like a Weasel? Raff is not seeking suicide like an obsidian slave miner yet Arya still heard mercy. Catelyn used to be upset when Arya didnt comb her hair or fold her clothes, but I dont think shes gonna make Aryas list for that No its not all blood and its not all the same. That there is a difference between justice and mercy is a theme of the whole series. She thinks back on the Hound and thinks her actions were wrong. She learned from her experiences, she should have done things differently. The series is not over, she will learn more, she will change more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 1 hour ago, chrisdaw said: No its not all blood and its not all the same. That there is a difference between justice and mercy is a theme of the whole series. The theme is its all the same. Perhaps Ned thought he was doing justice, perhaps mercy. Night watch dude still dead though Quote "Lord Eddard, yes, he had that reputation, but they named him traitor and took his head off even so." The old woman's eyes bore into her, sharp and bright as the points of swords. "Joffrey," Sansa said. "Joffrey did that. He promised me he would be merciful, and cut my father's head off. He said that was mercy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: The theme is its all the same. No it isn't and you have to ignore large portions of text to come to this understanding. The idea that Tywin is the guiding of light in the series on matters of justice is comical. When GRRM has Ned execute a deserter as lord, in the name of the king, in daylight and in front of witnesses, he does it for a reason. When he has Arya murder a deserter in the dark of night, in a back alley, as an anonymous, faceless person, he also does it for a reason, it is saying something. Justice is done in the light, it is seen, it enforces laws and keeps the peace. He muses on it multiple times, from Thoros to the Kindly Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 10 minutes ago, chrisdaw said: No it isn't and you have to ignore large portions of text to come to this understanding. The idea that Tywin is the guiding of light in the series on matters of justice is comical. When GRRM has Ned execute a deserter as lord, in the name of the king, in daylight and in front of witnesses, he does it for a reason. When he has Arya murder a deserter in the dark of night, in a back alley, as an anonymous, faceless person, he also does it for a reason, it is saying something. Justice is done in the light, it is seen, it enforces laws and keeps the peace. He muses on it multiple times, from Thoros to the Kindly Man. Bullshit. Dudes as dead as Dareon. Thoros too has come to the realization that his masters not a pretty knight doing justice but a stonehearted zombie, either way the outcomes the same, a noose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 On 3/18/2020 at 7:24 PM, chrisdaw said: Arya is a character arc. Shit changes, that's the point. Character has one position, undergoes learning experiences, takes a new position. You're either being wilfully ignorant or not reading carefully enough, as her arc has already progressed past things you've listed as defining her. Mercy not in her arc? I don't know, maybe GRRM will provide us a hint otherwise in the coming books, doing something like having her literally take Mercy for a name or something. It's not realistic for Arya to go back to being normal. What she has done is beyond even what a hardened soldier could do. She's already dead inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisdaw Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 1 hour ago, Moiraine Sedai said: It's not realistic for Arya to go back to being normal. What she has done is beyond even what a hardened soldier could do. She's already dead inside. She will return to society perfectly functional, and the cries of unrealistic by character haters will go completely unheard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 On 3/20/2020 at 2:42 AM, chrisdaw said: She will return to society perfectly functional, and the cries of unrealistic by character haters will go completely unheard. No, she won't. Arya is far too messed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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