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Brandon Ice-Eyes

Lady Stoneheart's Purpose in ASOIAF

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Lady Stoneheart's Purpose in ASOIAF

*Firstly, this isn't a theory, it's more a debate i'm trying to spark as to what will happen to Lady Stoneheart in TWOW and ADOS.

So in ASOIAF, one of the many characters that we meet is Lady Stoneheart. She is Catelyn Stark brought back from the dead after The Red Wedding where Catelyn's throat is slit. Beric Dondarrion ends up giving Catelyn the kiss of life to bring her back to life - although wether this was kind or cruel is entirely different debate. Now Lady Stoneheart, as she comes to be known as, seems to spend her days hunting Freys in The Riverlands with the help of The Brotherhood Without Banners, of which she is the leader off and for a while i wondered what her purpose even was as she seemed fairly pointless yet she seems to have a larger role than i'd thought.

One thing Lady Stoneheart has is knowledge of is Robb's Will which states that Jon Snow is the rightful heir to The North and that if Robb were to die, (he does) then Jon should inherit his kingdom. Not only that but Lady Stoneheart has The Crown of Winter with her meaning that she does hold the ability to crown the new King in The North (Although having the crown does not mean she holds exclusive rights to crown the next king.) This does mean that she will be able to strengthen Jon's claim to The North, but why would she want to do that?

Next is her simply being here for Frey blood. Obviously there is another Frey wedding coming soon at Riverrun and with what happened at The Red Wedding and The Purple Wedding, i would not surprised if this Frey Wedding turns into a bloodbath that the Brotherhood Without Banners cause as revenge. She has been targeting Freys in The Riverlands and has had many hung in her lust for vengeance yet this is not enough for her. Perhaps she has been brought back from the dead by The Red God to avenge The Red Wedding?

And of course we have to consider Jaime Lannister and Brienne. Lady Stoneheart as of the end of ADWD seems to have had Brienne lure Jaime to her. What do you believe will happen to Jaime and Brienne?

And what of her fate? Personally i see the most plausible way for her to die is that when Arya returns to Westeros, she crosses path with Lady Stoneheart and delivers her the gift of mercy.

So ultimately there is a whole host of different ways that Lady Stonehearts story could go yet i do believe she will hold a large role in TWOW. 

I've wrote above some ideas that the ASOIAF fandom has for Lady Stoneheart, now leave down below your thoughts and how you think her story will play out in TWOW and how she will die? :closedeyes:

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Granted we don't know how it will play out, but I'm honestly not a fan of the concept of Lady Stoneheart. The concept is literally adding insult to injury(character assassination to death?) to Catelyn's tragic story arc. It just belittles everything she struggled for and died for to become a mindless zombie that her own surviving children would probably be horrified of.

I guess it could be meant to demonstrate the a narrative of the futility and hollowness of revenge, but there seem to be plenty of examples of that across the novels where it might have more meaning to still living characters. 

I suppose her purpose could be a test of the bond between Jaime and Brienne, though honestly I thought him jumping into a bear pit for her was proof enough of that. Martin may surprise us with this one, but honestly I'm just seeing either more tragedy out of this confrontation or a cliche love conquers all story.

Plus she hurt/killed Pod. Anyone who does that sucks.

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I quite like the idea of Lady Stoneheart/Catelyn letting go of her discomfort of Jon Snow and giving him the kiss to revive him, as a way of acknowledging him and for her to finally let go of lingering negative emotions and rest in peace. Of course, a lot of things would have to happen in her arc to make that sort of big change plausible.

And Jon Snow is too far away and he would have to stay dead for a long time if we have to wait for Stoneheart to arrive there. Not to mention that there are other factors(Melisandre, Ghost, burning of Shireen) that could contribute to his rebirth.

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40 minutes ago, shameeka said:

I quite like the idea of Lady Stoneheart/Catelyn letting go of her discomfort of Jon Snow and giving him the kiss to revive him, as a way of acknowledging him and for her to finally let go of lingering negative emotions and rest in peace. Of course, a lot of things would have to happen in her arc to make that sort of big change plausible.

And Jon Snow is too far away and he would have to stay dead for a long time if we have to wait for Stoneheart to arrive there. Not to mention that there are other factors(Melisandre, Ghost, burning of Shireen) that could contribute to his rebirth.

Damn, id actually never thought of that, I’d always assumed that Shireen will be sacrificed to bring him back to life but that’s a really interesting point that she could give him the kiss of life and finally let go of her hate for him. That being said it does feel like Arya is destined to give her the gift of death.

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2 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Granted we don't know how it will play out, but I'm honestly not a fan of the concept of Lady Stoneheart. The concept is literally adding insult to injury(character assassination to death?) to Catelyn's tragic story arc. It just belittles everything she struggled for and died for to become a mindless zombie that her own surviving children would probably be horrified of.

I guess it could be meant to demonstrate the a narrative of the futility and hollowness of revenge, but there seem to be plenty of examples of that across the novels where it might have more meaning to still living characters. 

I suppose her purpose could be a test of the bond between Jaime and Brienne, though honestly I thought him jumping into a bear pit for her was proof enough of that. Martin may surprise us with this one, but honestly I'm just seeing either more tragedy out of this confrontation or a cliche love conquers all story.

Plus she hurt/killed Pod. Anyone who does that sucks.

I agree that it feels really cruel to bring her back after all she suffered which is why I feel she might serve a greater purpose. I do think she will definitely test Jaime and Brienne. There was another person down below who suggested that she could give Jon the kiss of life which could be another alternative but Im not sure because she feels destined to be given mercy by Arya.

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1 hour ago, shameeka said:

And Jon Snow is too far away and he would have to stay dead for a long time if we have to wait for Stoneheart to arrive there.

Or could be a different time and place for that to happen ... not TWOW, but maybe ADOS.

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2 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

Or could be a different time and place for that to happen ... not TWOW, but maybe ADOS.

Will GRRM wanna keep Jon dead until ADOS. Feels like it’s going to be wrapped Up in TWOW

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12 minutes ago, Brandon Ice-Eyes said:

Will GRRM wanna keep Jon dead until ADOS. Feels like it’s going to be wrapped Up in TWOW

I believe Jon will be resurrected at the Wall in TWOW.
And he dies later again on his march South in ADOS.
This is where Lady Stoneheart meets him and revives him again ... passing on Beric Dondarrion's life-force, and the plot-purpose of the Red Wedding to Jon.

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I think all of the suggestions are plausible, but I really hope that there is some deeper purpose to her resurrection.
I have to be honest, I'm not a fan of this part of the storyline and as things stand I feel like it just diminishes Catelyn's arc.

Her literal resurrection is simply superfluous to everything in her immediate storyline and just seems so unnecessary. The same results could be achieved equally well without the magical aspect. In fact, a barely breathing Cat left for dead and remaining mentally broken even while her body heals could be far more poignant. Cat being of so little importance and consequance to the Freys that her body is just dumped without even checking for signs of life. Her clinging to life by sheer power of will for the sake of avenging her children. A broken Cat emerging, driven purely by vengeance.

I believe that GRRM writes everything he does for a reason though, so I have faith that it will all become clear and that there will be a purpose in the upcoming books that actually necessitated a physical death and resurrection.
I can definitely get behind theories of her passing on her life-force to revive another character, although I agree that her path seems more destined to cross with Arya than Jon . . . and I'm not sure that I would want to see both Jon and Arya killed off only to be revived from the dead.

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Hi Brandon,

That is a good question. What is Cat's purpose in the plot?

Cat is a better person compared to Cersei. Still, our author comes down hard on those who fail the people. Cat put her own needs above what is good for the many. That is a no, no for a person in a leadership role.  She is an example of how not to be. That is why she's "walking on, walking on broken glass."

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She will soon have Jaime and kill him either herself or by orders. And possibly he will then be revived as was Beric. 

I personally have always thought she wouldn't last long after this - maybe Brynden will take over leadership of the BWB - but maybe not. Maybe she will go on a big raiding and vengeance plot - it will be a time for wolves, after all.

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Everyone seems to assume that Stoneheart's revenge arc will stay within the Riverlands, I'm not too sure about that.  There should be two main targets for her at this point, Walder Frey and Roose Bolton, the man who slew her son right in front of her

Quote

"She wants her son alive, or the men who killed him dead," said the big man.  "She wants to feed the crows, like they did at the Red Wedding.  Freys and Boltons, aye.  We'll give her these, as many as she likes."

Quote

Behind it sat a woman all in grey, cloaked and hooded.  In her hands was a crown, a bronze circlet ringed by iron swords.  She was studying it, her fingers stroking the blades as if to test their sharpness.  Her eyes glimmered under her hood.

My assumption is that she's not necessarily interested in killing Jaime, but instead in using him as a tool in her revenge plan.

After she takes revenge on Walder Frey, I could see her turning her sights north and marching an army into Winterfell, perhaps arriving there around the same time as another character raised from the dead and bent on revenge.  

Two dark shadows who both have very selfish, competing desires for the same prize.

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2 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

Everyone seems to assume that Stoneheart's revenge arc will stay within the Riverlands, I'm not too sure about that.  There should be two main targets for her at this point, Walder Frey and Roose Bolton, the man who slew her son right in front of her

My assumption is that she's not necessarily interested in killing Jaime, but instead in using him as a tool in her revenge plan.

After she takes revenge on Walder Frey, I could see her turning her sights north and march an army into Winterfell, perhaps arriving there around the same time as another character raised from the dead and bent on revenge.  

Two dark shadows who both have very selfish, competing desires for the same prize.

Very good point -_-

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I think her purpose has something to do with her name,  Lady Stoneheart.  Why was it appropriate for her to personify a dead, petrified heart tree?  I think we can only guess at reasons until we see a little more of her.

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Well, to be sure, Stoneheart seems to be a given name and well earned.  Seems to me the last emotions or motives Beric and Cat felt before dying are exactly what became prominent in their after life activities.   Beric wanted justic, Cat wanted revenge.  (Jon doesn't understand what's happening so I expect befuddlement if he ever rejoins the fray.)  I doubt Cat will do anything in any for at any time to help Jon Snow.  The likelihood that Cat was resurrected in this manner to become a lesson in true Mercy for Arya is the best fit.  Cat wasn't wrong to hate Jon Snow, just a jerk.  In kind, Arya's had all this indoctrination about mercy and death, with the lines well blurred.  That's what.  Arya will have to give LSH the gift of mercy. 

Jamie gets a report that LSH was seen heading into the Neck, so North is not a bad call.  This is where she actually lived most her life or close to it.  But all the way to Winterfell?  I'd be really interested to see how Howland Reed would react to this unnatural creature his liege lord's wife became.  Or Maege Mormont or Galbart Glover for that matter.  I'm thinking fire wight in the North can't possibly end well.  

What happens after LSH's death is a mystery with many potential outcomes.  I cannot say what happens or how, but once LSH is gone, little power vacuums appear.  In that Jamie & Brienne will likely be with or very near her when she dies I would look to her death to heavily influence both of them as well as Uncle Blackfish.  I think a priest knight like Thoros could do with a good leader. It's fun to imagine Jamie being overwhelmed by events and taking up the helm and purpose of the BWB but I can't see to what end.  The BWB doesn't meet Brienne's high standards, but the Blackfish could be a perfect fit.   Whatever the BWB becomes under new management, it cannot continue as a vigilante crew.  Most of them are good men with good intentions, not this blood lust.  

I think Arya killing this creature would do them both a great deal of good.  Short of that all I know is LSH has got to go.  

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Her role is primarily for Arya's arc relating to love, mercy and justice vs vengeance. Arya will join the BwB without her real face, observe Stoneheart and conclude that without the capacity to love Stoneheart is not her mother. Arya will observe Stoneheart's merciless pursuit of vengeance and judge it ill, a wrong that should be righted. Arya will help destroy Stoneheart, and in doing so come to understand that her own current path of vengeance and mercilessness will lead her to become a loveless evil. It'll help her to learn to forgive, to be merciful and just. It is the making of a queen.

Stoneheart will play a role in other character arcs. For Jaime she is a lesson in what happens when the crown fails in its duty to do justice. In lieu of any king's justice the Riverlands have turned to the BwBs for justice, and that is morphing into something heinous, hateful and merciless. A void in justice became mob justice is becoming a death cult. Jaime is to be the Hand of the series, and this is an important education for Goldenhand the Just in running the realm, the crown must do justice, or at the least be seen to be doing justice.

For Brienne the high and mighty, Stoneheart forces her into dishonourable action by giving her choices of only dishonourable actions. Stoneheart is to Brienne what Aerys was to Jaime.

Stonheart has nothing to do with Jon directly. Only in Arya's arc is there a connection. Cat died and came back from the dead evil and loveless, and Arya will decide she needs to be put down. It will become known or rumoured that Jon died, and came back to life. And when he comes back he will be armoured all in ice, all warmth having fled from him, the boy dead the man born etc. The King of Winter. His merciless romp south will make Arya wonder about Jon. She will need to confront the question - is Jon the hardened leader doing the drastic but necessary things to consolidate the realm and survive the Long Night? Or has he come back from the dead like Catelyn did as Stoneheart, loveless and merciless, fuelled in his conquest of the south by revenge against the Lannisters and all those who did the stark's wrong? And so Arya will have to decide if the new Jon is something that, like Stoneheart, should be removed for everyone's collective sake.

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2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

Jon doesn't understand what's happening so I expect befuddlement if he ever rejoins the fray.) 

His last thoughts were on Arya and the sword.  He's not coming back as a good guy.  If he comes back at all. 

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15 hours ago, Son of Man said:

His last thoughts were on Arya and the sword.  He's not coming back as a good guy.  If he comes back at all. 

Yah I think he muses "stick them with the pointy end", as he told Arya.  He's still not really aware of what's happening though by the time this thought pops into his mind he may be getting the point.   Sorry, bad pun.  I'm not so sure Jon isn't just inherently good, making it impossible for him to be a bad guy.  I hope he will be clear on his mission and what he has to do with a little blood and fire pep in his step.   Regardless our opinions of Jon's diplomatic skills I think that ability progressed the story to the place where Jon would be attacked by less enlightened men of the NW.  And there is that small quotient Jon possesses that neither Beric nor Cat had...Jon is a magical being.   I expect Jon to be more Targaryen whether he knows his identity or not.   Maybe more of his brooding over feeling so strange, more accrediting swords with his ability to kick ass, less tolerant of pretty much everything he isn't on board with.  Don't lose faith in The Prince Who Was Promised, brother!   

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15 hours ago, chrisdaw said:

 

For Brienne the high and mighty, Stoneheart forces her into dishonourable action by giving her choices of only dishonourable actions. Stoneheart is to Brienne what Aerys was to Jaime.

 

Brilliant! 

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