I don't like how the Summer Isles are potrayed

[BlackLightning]

On 6/3/2020 at 7:47 AM, Oak and Iron said:

I was just reading another thread about skagos.  The skagosi are about the exact opposite of the summer islanders or so we hear.  THe problem with both these places is that we have not actually been to either of these places.

I've noticed that too.

I think it plays into the ice vs. fire dichotomy Martin has been exemplifying

On 6/3/2020 at 7:22 AM, Walda said:

and does anyone know what Aeron Greyjoy's deal is? (Rhetorical question, thanks).

Aeron's deal? Aeron seems to be still suffering from years of sexual trauma and abuse at the hands of Euron.

It is not uncommon for people who have been raped, molested, sexually assaulted, etc. to become borderline asexual, if not outright develop a phobia pertaining to sex.

[Ran]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

High class brothels and gambling tend to go together.  I expect Anguy was fleeced at dice and cards.

Also wildly overpriced follies like bathing in a tub filled with Arbor gold. He got the brothel equivalent of "bottle service".

[Alyn Oakenfist]

This is basically called Orientalism, ie the West's tendency to imagine a mythological Est as a most unorthodox place. However I tend to think this is Orientalism on behalf of the characters and not GRRM, for as other people have noted, this view of a constant orgy no war paradise is probably false. Like just think how many murders would come out of pure jealousy. It's also a neat hippie allegory, with the whole make love not war.

[Springwatch]

21 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

If you imagine a less patriarchal, more equal society, where you also have a more sex positive attitude, then chances are not that bad that a society would not encourage their young people to do this kind of voluntary work. I mean, if you volunteer for something it is usually something that is held in high esteem in that culture, and George world, like the real world, do not all equally condemn prostitution - the courtesans of Braavos are women held in high regard, too.

Yes, it makes an interesting thought experiment, but you can see how it would fail. It works as long as everyone is perfectly generous and perfectly respectful, but if this was real (if!), human nature would break up the equilibrium very quickly. The young person's needs are neglected, and the client's sense of entitlement is inflated - this would build trouble down the line. If it was real. I don't think it is real, I think this sexual confidence of the Summer Islanders is as much of a fantasy element as dragon dreams are for the Targs.

Alayaya is extraordinary. She is beaten savagely, and compensated with a flashy trinket from Tyrion, which would make most people question their vocation. Yet she is offered to Prince Oberyn, who describes her as exquisite. So she's still the best of the best, not detectably damaged in spirit, but for the same reason, not a realistic character, in my opinion. Her blood is the blood of summer, and that is the start and end of it.

[Lord Varys]

18 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Yes, it makes an interesting thought experiment, but you can see how it would fail. It works as long as everyone is perfectly generous and perfectly respectful, but if this was real (if!), human nature would break up the equilibrium very quickly. The young person's needs are neglected, and the client's sense of entitlement is inflated - this would build trouble down the line. If it was real. I don't think it is real, I think this sexual confidence of the Summer Islanders is as much of a fantasy element as dragon dreams are for the Targs.

I'm not so sure about that. I mean, this is voluntary service, and it seems as if the people really liking to do it are the most empathic and most compassionate. There are people who like helping others, and it is not that they would be forced to service always ugly and sick and unpleasant 'customers', nor would they have their own romantic and sexual relationships only at those temples like slaves.

What little I know about this topic really is that there are studies showing that not all people have the same sex drive - some have a stronger sex drive, others is weaker. The same goes for your interest in sexual experimentation. So a Summer Islander culture could certainly work if there were a sufficient number of people who like doing this stuff - just as there are, in the real world, actually women and men who like to work as prostitutes. For them having sex with a lot of people is an attractive prospect, and they don't have to desire all of them to the same degree.

[H Wadsworth Longfellow]

On 6/1/2020 at 8:05 PM, Lord Varys said:

There might be some effects there this winter when the Others come, but it does not strike me as very likely the people on the Summer Islands or in Sothoryos are going to be affected by that very much - they might, if the good guys lose and the Others turn Dorne into an icy wastelands, and freeze the Narrow Sea to march to Essos and eventually on through the Summer Sea to the lands in the father south.

But that's not likely to happen.

I also don't think the Long Night affected Sothoryos and the Summer Islands in a meaningful way.

Realism would force GRRM to accept some science.  The whole planet cannot go completely cold and dark.  The skies may go overcast and cloudy in the south lands but it will not be the darkness of the northern latitudes.  

[Rose of Red Lake]

I think the critique can be focused on how they are used in the story. It's not necessarily how they are portrayed, it's how they are used. It's mostly just as props or tokens. They are they to help Sam get laid and one dude is in King's Landing so that the author can talk about race without really talking about it.

I am still disappointed in GRRM's response to the Oberyn casting by the way.