How did Barristan known that Ashara had a stillborn daughter? A possible answer.

[Curled Finger]

17 hours ago, Saint Alia of the Knife said:

@Curled Finger Thanks, I did try to keep a pretty clear through-line on everything. And happy to be here!

I do recall in the books that Ned said in a certain passafe:

"Gods, Catelyn, Sansa is only eleven," Ned said. "And Joffrey … Joffrey is …"

 

She finished for him. "… crown prince, and heir to the Iron Throne. And I was only twelve when my father promised me to your brother Brandon."

 

That brought a bitter twist to Ned's mouth. "Brandon. Yes. Brandon would know what to do. He always did. It was all meant for Brandon. You, Winterfell, everything. He was born to be a King's Hand and a father to queens. I never asked for this cup to pass to me." - A Game of Thrones - Catelyn II

 

Ned was clearly bitter over something, but admittedly besides hearing that Brandon liked the ladies and was hotheaded, we don't honestly know that much of his personality. Ned just having one dance with Ashara, and maybe a crush...but I don't know if that would have stopped Brandon from swooping in or not.

Also, Ned was friends with Bobby B, and Bobby B was a dick. And Ned stayed loyal to him to the bitter end. Ned could be doing the same for Brandon despite any misteps on his brother's part.

Admittedly, I only put Ashara in the "she's dead" column because I can't think of anything she'd substantially add to the story if she turned up alive. If she's with FAegon, she should have just showed up with FAegon instead of smoke and mirrors. We're running closer to the end than not by now, so she'd have to be bringing something really juicy or thematically interesting to the table for GRRM to conjure her up. But that's just how I feel about it.

That is precisely the quote I was thinking of.   I always read that to mean that Ned felt pushed into a role specifically designed for his older, better prepared brother.  I never picked up on resentment toward Brandon.   Ah, that is what this story does to us isn't it? 

Just for fun, because I do agree with most of your end statement here about any substantial thing Ashara being alive might contribute.   All I've got for that is she was in the thick of all Rhaegar's conspiracies and could validate not only Jon's claim, but maybe prove Varys was stirring things up unnecessarily.   Some folks have thought that perhaps Aerys was the father of this stillborn daughter.   If nothing else, she could name the father of her child if this child ever actually existed.  Who knows?  Perhaps she could illuminate Elia's or Lyanna's parts in Rhaegar's prophecies.   Not an A player by any stretch, but she knows every bit as much about Rhaegar and Lyanna as Howland Reed.   If Ashara really was Septa Lemore as you lay out, her involvement with the fAegon group could be a very interesting undercover job.   Just a lot of fun GRRM could have with this character.  I admit, I do like the possibility that Howland Reed was the guy who captured her attention and heart.   I wouldn't hate it at all if she turned out to be Jyanna Reed.   Not saying it is so, but I do like it.  

[Megorova]

3 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

If Ashara really was Septa Lemore as you lay out, her involvement with the fAegon group could be a very interesting undercover job. 

Isn't Lemore too old to be Ashara (according to Tyrion she is in her 40s)? Furthermore, Ashara was the most beautiful woman of 7K (in those times), and while Lemore is fairly goodlooking, she's not goodlooking enough to be Ashara.

I don't understand why people think that Lemore could be Ashara. I absolutely can't imagine how could have happened (if ever happened) that transaction of Ashara from Dorne into Illyrio's and Varys' service.

[Darth Sidious]

21 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Isn't Lemore too old to be Ashara (according to Tyrion she is in her 40s)? Furthermore, Ashara was the most beautiful woman of 7K (in those times), and while Lemore is fairly goodlooking, she's not goodlooking enough to be Ashara.

I don't understand why people think that Lemore could be Ashara. I absolutely can't imagine how could have happened (if ever happened) that transaction of Ashara from Dorne into Illyrio's and Varys' service.

Age is unjust you know.  Ashara was indeed very beautiful in those times.  Sixteen years later?  Perhaps not.  

[Davjos]

23 hours ago, Saint Alia of the Knife said:

@Davjos Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. To address your points:

1. If Ashara was the one to lead Ned to the TOJ, Barristan may not know that, and therefore wouldn't be able to factor that guilt into her suicide. Flawed POVs and all. I mentioned this a bit above too, but since I believe Barristan never saw Ashara again after the stillbirth, but heard that she killed herself--he just went with what he knew to explain why she committed suicide. Though I too do think it's a bit weird that Barristan never factored Arthur's death into it. Ashara jumping off the tower really seems to be a response to THAT more than anything. Perhaps Barristan didn't know her very well. He may think himself in love, but I'm more of the opinion his was a very surface level infatuation that got elevated by her death. But that last part is really my two cents.

2. Okay admittedly I don't know when Jon was born. I've seen a LOT of conflicting info on that. I too believe that Jon was born either days before or the day of Ned arriving. Otherwise, why is Ned so traumatized by the bed of blood?? But GRRM has said some bizzare things like Dany is 8-9 months younger than Jon. Which would put her conception AFTER Aerys was dead, or means that Aerys fucked Rhaella literally the day before he sent her from KL; and that the sack, the ending of the siege of Storm's End, and Ned travelling all the way to Dorne happened inside of a month. Anyways, I think Ashara knew Lyanna was pregnant, so she could have just been motivated by the impending birth. I think the KG honestly got stuck at the Tower; once all the bad news started arriving, I think they may have been needing to make plans to actually flee somewhere, but they were stuck because Lyanna was well into the 3rd trimester at the point and it wasn't safe for her or the baby in her belly to travel. Maybe they needed somewhere to get Lyanna + baby too to be safe, which is why Ashara wrote Ned.

Danaerys I GOT does say she was born nine months after leaving KL so yes, she was conceived close to their flight to Dragonstone. I thought Jaime’s conversation with Darry about not protecting Rhaella from Aerys Is the rape in which Dany is conceived but I could be misremembering. I believe the next time Jaime sees Rhaella is her departure to Dragonstone. 

[corbon]

On 6/21/2020 at 2:22 AM, Megorova said:

Based on information in the World book and what was said by characters in AGOT, it's likely that the Tournament at Harrenhal was held on October 29 - November 7 of 281.

It is known that the false spring ended less than two months after Tournament at Harrenhal. Also it is known that the winter began on the first day of 282. Thus Tournament was held in the end of October and thru the beginning of November,

This is not accurate.

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The False Spring of 281 AC lasted less than two turns. As the year drew to a close, winter returned to Westeros with a vengeance. On the last day of the year, snow began to fall upon King's Landing, and a crust of ice formed atop the Blackwater Rush. The snowfall continued off and on for the best part of a fortnight, by which time the Blackwater was hard frozen, and icicles draped the roofs and gutters of every tower in the city.

Winter did not return 'on the first day of 282'. Snow began to fall in KL on that day.
Winter returns when the false spring ends, but before the false spring begins its been winter and noticeably warm(ing)* for maybe 6 months up to almost a year.
*in the quote below, its still winter (winter's end is nigh) but the snows have been melting, the woods greening, the days growing longer, and they must have been doing that before Whent visited his family and the tourney was announced. They can;t very well announce a spring tourney when there are no signs that spring is returning yet. And it must be months between the tourney being announced and a date set and it actually happening - word has to get all over westeros, preparations be made, both by the hosts and the participants, and the participants have to travel from all over westeros to get to the tourney. Its not physically possible for all that to happen including the tourney being held within the two month period of the false spring. So the tourney was planned during the winter when the signs suggesting spring was imminent and the false spring was declared before the tourney and lasted two months. 

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In the annals of Westeros, 281 AC is known as the Year of the False Spring. Winter had held the land in its icy grip for close on two years, but now at last the snows were melting, the woods were greening, the days were growing longer. Though the white ravens had not yet flown, there were many even at the Citadel of Oldtown who believed that winter's end was nigh.

Thus it is possible that 'winter' returns when the false spring is declared over (after 2 months).

Thus winter returning 'with a vengeance' as the year draws to a close (ie in late 281, November/December estimate but a vague and inconclusive time) can be read in two ways.
1. It went straight from 'false Spring' to 'nasty winter' - in which case nasty winter starts in late 281, but we are not exactly sure when, and snow in KL - super-nasty winter  - starts on Jan 1 282
or
2. 'false spring' ends and 'winter', which is not actually that much different really just no longer heading in the warming direction, returns, then as the year draws to a close 'nasty winter' arrives - with a vengeance.

So we have several things going on.
i - a warming period of winter (during which the tourney is announced)
ii - a two month long false spring (during which the tourney happens
iii - false spring ends (which means its winter again, be default)
iv - vengeance winter (nastier than 'normal' winter) returns, as the year draws to a close (nov/dec?)
v - snow fall in KL on Jan1 (part of, but clearly after the start of 'vengeance winter'

Maybe iii and iv are the same time, maybe they are not.

We can't actually pin down the Tourney at Harrenhal to any particular time. It maybe have been during Nov/Dec, it may have been earlier than that.
 

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As cold winds hammered the city, King Aerys II turned to his pyromancers, charging them to drive the winter off with their magics. Huge green fires burned along the walls of the Red Keep for a moon's turn. Prince Rhaegar was not in the city to observe them, however. Nor could he be found in Dragonstone with Princess Elia and their young son, Aegon. With the coming of the new year, the crown prince had taken to the road with half a dozen of his closest friends and confidants, on a journey that would ultimately lead him back to the riverlands. Not ten leagues from Harrenhal, Rhaegar fell upon Lyanna Stark of Winterfell, and carried her off, lighting a fire that would consume his house and kin and all those he loved—and half the realm besides.

Note that Rhaegar took to the road basically on or very nearly on Jan 1. 
Clearly he, Aerys, and everyone else has had plenty of time to return home after the tourney, before Jan 1.

[Saint Alia of the Knife]

 

@Megorova Thank for sharing your Ashara-Jyana-Howland theory. I don't mesh with all of it, but I think the idea of Ashara being dismissed from court by Elia in order to go play chaperone to Lyanna is especially neat. And it definitely gives more agency to poor Elia for her to be playing an active part in Rhaegar's going to get/kidnap Lyanna.

Though one confusing point. By your theory Lyanna was completely cool with everything and on board whatever Rhaegar's plan was, but at the last moment she isn't and asks her brother to go kill the Kingsguard (that Lyanna spent a lot of time with!) to get Jon? Doesn't make a lot of sense. Also, I just believe that everything happened at the Tower. Lyanna dying, the fight, Jon being born--everything. And Ned's fever dream really gives the impression that it's a very short progression from fight at ToJ --> Lyanna dying, not the other way around. GRRM cheated enough with Ned's POV to hide the Jon secret, mushing up the timeline that much more to fool reader's would just be absurd. And this would add a lot of extra steps that ultimately don't add anything story-wise.

Also, not on board with Edric as secret love child of Ashara and Howland sent away for "reasons". So the kid is Valyrian looking, they can just say Ashara has it up the family tree. Dragonseed or whatever. Did they think Howland's people were going to drown the kid in the swamp? I don't see people giving up a kid forever and ever for that flimsy a reason. Also, Edric isn't an important enough character to be having this elaborate of a backstory. Who would ultimately care if Edric is Ashara's and Howland's kid? It adds nothing to the story thematically, and in-story nothing gets changed besides Edric maybe getting chucked as heir to Starfall. A writer can only play the secret baby/baby swap/secret identity card so many times until it gets ridiculous and cheap. Jon and FAegon are enough to be getting on with.

 

@Curled Finger I kinda fear that Ashara and the identity of the baby daddy is one of those things that will never be answered. GRRM made her mythical and gave us some hints, but it might be something lost to the mists of time. While I and a bunch of other people do want to know, the answer wouldn't mean anything to the current story of throne-gaming or zombies, so GRRM would be wasting time on it. All of Ashara's possible baby daddies? Dead (but Howland). Oberyn, Ned, Brandon, all the Kingsguard but Barristan, Aerys, Rhaegar. Deader than doornails. Unless the kid is alive (or FAegon), it doesn't really matter because the child isn't around to have a claim or a plotline. And Howland is more a plot-device for Jon's parentage at this point than a character, so there's no real emotional weight to it being his child that died. 

But as you said, Ashara could reveal something of Rhaegar's prophecies in some way. Maybe it helps with the zombies? Though right now I feel I know everything I need to know about Rhaegar and his clearly flawed interpretations: he thought he had the answers, acted rashly, didn't actually have the answers, and brought near complete destruction to his House. I don't need to know the specifics, unless maybe he knew how to forge/what/who Lightbringer is, or something of that nature.

But hey, who knows! There could be juicy deets GRRM is waiting to surprise us with.

 

@Megorova @Prince Rhaego's Soul@Curled Finger

I'd think Septa Lemore isn't Ashara, Elia (as one theory states), or anybody from Dorne that we know. If Lemore was Ashara, they'd be sending her to go lobby for FAegon in Dorne to get the spears they need for his invasion. Ashara is very likely to have been there for Aegon's birth at Dragonstone. If she was alive, she'd basically be the only person who could confirm Aegon's identity in an unbroken line from Dragonstone to the boy they have currently (who isn't shifty as hell and untrustworthy like Varys). Once the Golden Company / JonConn start campaigning for "Aegon Targaryen" under that name, keeping Septa Lemore (if she had a secret Westerosi identity) as secret wouldn't make sense when she could be used as an asset. Therefore, imo, no way Lemore is actually anybody important. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Davjos said:

Danaerys I GOT does say she was born nine months after leaving KL so yes, she was conceived close to their flight to Dragonstone. I thought Jaime’s conversation with Darry about not protecting Rhaella from Aerys Is the rape in which Dany is conceived but I could be misremembering. I believe the next time Jaime sees Rhaella is her departure to Dragonstone. 

Ahhhhh okay, she was just a very last minute conception. That would make her about 8 months younger than Jon which fits things. The thought of her being conceived from the rape Jaime heard? That's especially horrifying...

But thanks for giving me that info, @Davjos.

 

@corbon Thank you for clearing up the timing of the False Spring and Winter-back-with-a-vengeance on Westeros. I've never actually read the World Book, so I couldn't argue that either way.  Though it did sound off for the fact I've literally never heard that Harrenhal's timing had been pinned down in all my previous forum trawling to date. Glad my theory wasn't immediately blown out of the water by timing....phew!

 

[corbon]

11 hours ago, Megorova said:

Isn't Lemore too old to be Ashara (according to Tyrion she is in her 40s)?

No. 
Tyrion, who has already proven a poor estimate of ages, guesses her age at 40+.
Thats a middle aged woman's age - y'know, that thing that no one does because its very difficult to do accurately and thus potentially results in insulting errors?
Ashara would be in her thirties for sure, probably late 30s given she is likely to have been in her late teens or even very early twenties when at court with Elia.

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Furthermore, Ashara was the most beautiful woman of 7K (in those times),

Thats not true at all.
She is described, by presumably unbiased/average (unknown) sources to Catelyn as 'fair', with haunting purple eyes. In other words, generally attractive with one special feature.
Barristan, who is completely biased as he was crushing on her, calls her beautiful (and no doubt she was) and compares her very highly to Elia, who was sickly.
No one else mentions her looks.
She is never described as the most beautiful woman anywhere.

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and while Lemore is fairly goodlooking, she's not goodlooking enough to be Ashara.

"Handsome" is exactly the traditional description of a good looking older woman, past her 'prime' (and thats a matter of opinion!)
Plus she's been living a 'rougher' and more practical life than the courtiers (and whores) that Tyrion is used to.
Plus she's not trying to look good. That makes an enormous difference.

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I don't understand why people think that Lemore could be Ashara.

Virtually everything we know about Lemore can be matched back to Ashara. Everything. Her age, her looks, her colouring, her religion, her stretch marks but no child, her status as a hidden Lady, her ability to argue back at JonCon as though she s actually senior to him in the conspiracy, even though he's nominally in charge, even her swimming.
Even more interesting, many of these things don't actually seem to fit Ashara at the time we are introduced to Lemore. We only learn how some of them fit Ashara after we've already met Lemore. For example, We don't learn Ashara had a (stillborn) child until much later - before that we thought she died a lovelorn maid (unless we fell for the Jon's mother side-track, but that was shown a fallacy much earlier than ADwD). We thought she had fair hair (Cat's description) but only later do we learn Ashara had dark hair (so fair must have been in the generally pretty sense rather than the colouring sense).

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I absolutely can't imagine how could have happened (if ever happened) that transaction of Ashara from Dorne into Illyrio's and Varys' service.

Someone looked after (f)Aegon between when Varys smuggled the babe out of KL and several years later when JonCon was brought into the picture.
Who?
Why?
Who would be trusted, trustworthy?
Who would be inconspicuous with a child?
Who would be relevant in 'proving' the child's bona fides decades later?

Who disappeared around the same time without leaving a body, and is directly connected to the child's parents?

[QhorinQuarterhand]

Hello @Saint Alia of the Knife

I know people don't like the show so much, but D&D got the job because they guessed who's Jon mother was, and it was Lyanna in the show.

We know who D&D picked as Jon's parents in the show. However, George literally never confirmed anything in that quote from D&D. All he did was smile. Plus that is an account from D&D, not a quote directly from George. So that is what allegedly happened, according to D&D. 

He asked us, “Who is Jon Snow’s mother?”  We had discussed it before, and we gave a shocking answer.  At that point, George didn’t actually say whether or not we were right or wrong, but his smile was his tell.  We knew we had passed the Wonka test, at that point.

Father is never mentioned. Rhaegar is never mentioned. Lyanna is is never mentioned. George (allegedly) smiled at whatever their guess for Jon's mother was. That's literally it. It doesn't confirm who Jon's mother or father are. George called the show licensed fanfiction. There are hundreds of known differences between the Books and the 1st 4 seasons of the Show. The Show has literally zero bearing on whether something will happen in TWOW+ or not. 

 I in all sincerity, would like to examine the text quotes that convinced you of:

GRRM has so much Targaryen and winter rose foreshadowing hanging on Jon at this point, it's been a neon sign over Jon's head since the days of AGOT who he really is

We can do that in PM if you like. I'm not trying to derail the direction you intended this thread to go.  

GRRM isn't going to zig just because the big secret is out now, and he's very against changing the end product just because people correctly picked up on the foreshadowing. So yeah. It's a sure thing to me, and my mind's not changing on that.

If your theory ends up being wrong, it doesn't mean George zigged. It means your theory was wrong. Considering your theory to be unwritten canon doesn't make it so. If your theory is wrong, George didn't change the end product, you incorrectly picked up on the foreshadowing. GRRM saying he is against changing the end product because it was already guessed or revealed has literally zero bearing on whether or not your theory or any other is true. 

The Tower of Joy was located at the north end of the Prince's Pass, and is small enough that only a few people could tear the whole thing down to build cairns, that's literally all we know about it.

We literally don't even know that about it. We do not have a canon source for the exact location of the tower of joy. We don't know if the tower was big or small. Maybe Ned and Howland didn't need all of the stones for the cairns. Maybe the tower of joy already was the tower long fallen when Ned and Howland fought whoever it was they fought there. 

The people who knew Ashara was going to the TOJ were members of the Dayne household, and it's not like the KG being there stayed secret forever. After Ned & Co and the Kingsguard fought, where the KG and Lyanna were stopped being a secret to the entire realm.

 

Literally none of that is canon. Not even Ned and Co fighting the KG at TOJ. Ned's fevre dream chapter is highly ambiguous on the matter. The dream part of it could have been not only a distortion of, but also a combination of 2 or more events. Lyanna also isn't definitely placed in TOJ, not even in Ned's fevre dream. It is not canon that Lyanna, Rhaegar or Jon were ever there. 

Did the Dornish army send scouts through the pass? Probably. But we don't know where in the pass the tower is besides North, it might be in a weird or hard to get to spot that got bypassed, or was out of the range of scouts. Scouts are looking for enemy forces and resources, they're not beating down the door of every tower they go by. Also, none of the Dorne chapters in the book mention the whereabouts of KG + Lyanna being known earlier, so with no proof it was known, I'm disinclined to believe that the army that passed through came in contact with them.

You're right. The possible location of TOJ is a good sized area. It could be well away from roads. It could be somewhat hidden and hard to get to. But it does not exist in a vacuum. Rhaegar upset Doran and Oberyn when he crowned Lyanna the QOLAB. So a year later he kidnaps (rumor) Lyanna and spends months with her and 3 KG in a tower (fan theory), with Ashara going back and forth to and from it (your theory) on the Dornish border and word never made it to Doran or Oberyn's ears? That just doesn't make any sense. 

You say the TOJ being undiscovered is completely unrealistic...and yet canonically we only have the Rhaegar group, Gerold Hightower, and Ned & Co ever finding their way there. So you say it's unrealistic...then give me proof other people found it.

See above RE: "realistic-ness" 

Canonically we don't know if Rhaegar was ever there. For all we know Rhaegar "named it" by answering someone's question about what it was called and it had already had that name for many years. Canonically we know that Martyn Cassell died there during the battle. And Ned and Howland were the only two who lived to ride away. So we know 3 people from Team Ned. We do not definitively know who they fought there. Or when for that matter. Plus context matters and not only is Ned starved and sick from his torture and broken leg in this chapter, but almost all of the info comes his fevre dream inside the chapter. How much more unreliable can the narrator get? 

Also, Dorne is plenty big. There's plenty of places for them to hide? You're acting like the Martells are omniscient and know what is going on in every square inch of their country  every minute of the day. As if there are no places to hide or lay low. I'm going to have to disagree with you there.

Are you changing your theory from they were at TOJ to they were somewhere in Dorne? 

The bold is nothing more than a twisting of my words. I never said or implied that.

[Megorova]

12 hours ago, Saint Alia of the Knife said:

Though one confusing point. By your theory Lyanna was completely cool with everything and on board whatever Rhaegar's plan was, but at the last moment she isn't and asks her brother to go kill the Kingsguard (that Lyanna spent a lot of time with!) to get Jon? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

She was Ok with becoming Rhaegar's second wife not because of the prophecy but because she loved him. She didn't cared whether her child will eventually rule over 7K or not. What she wanted is to be with the man that she loved. And when he was killed, all she wanted is for their child to stay out of danger. Which was not an option if he was revealed to be Rhaegar's son. She asked Ned to stop those people, to prevent them from causing Jon's death because of their ambitions and stupid devotion to a dead cause. She already lost her husband, she didn't wanted the same thing to happen to her son. Robert would have killed him, if Jon's identity became revealed.

12 hours ago, Saint Alia of the Knife said:

Also, I just believe that everything happened at the Tower. Lyanna dying, the fight, Jon being born--everything. And Ned's fever dream really gives the impression that it's a very short progression from fight at ToJ --> Lyanna dying, not the other way around. GRRM cheated enough with Ned's POV to hide the Jon secret, mushing up the timeline that much more to fool reader's would just be absurd. And this would add a lot of extra steps that ultimately don't add anything story-wise.

They (Rhaegar and Lyanna) knew beforehand that she was pregnant, thus at the time of her pregnancy they would have went into a safe and comfortable place, with a maister, midwife, wet-nurse, servants, etc., a place like Starfall. Based on ToJ's description given by GRRM, it didn't looked like a place at which a pregnant woman could have spent months. And there's no point or reason for a pregnant Lyanna to go anywhere, especially to go thru the Prince's Pass, thru mountains and a desert. 

Concerning addition to the story, it makes sense for Jon to be born at Starfall, under the bleeding stars, according to the prophecy about Azor Ahai reborn.

12 hours ago, Saint Alia of the Knife said:

Also, not on board with Edric as secret love child of Ashara and Howland sent away for "reasons". So the kid is Valyrian looking, they can just say Ashara has it up the family tree. Dragonseed or whatever. Did they think Howland's people were going to drown the kid in the swamp? I don't see people giving up a kid forever and ever for that flimsy a reason.

Additional reason is that, if Lord Dayne's wife had problems with giving birth to a child, then by giving Edric to her, they also made him a future Lord of Starfall. If Lord Dayne and his wife were childless, then, by laws of Dorne, Ashara's child was supposed to inherite Starfall, ahead of her younger sister Allyria, and that's what was accomplished by presenting Edric as Lord Dayne's son.

12 hours ago, Saint Alia of the Knife said:

Who would ultimately care if Edric is Ashara's and Howland's kid? It adds nothing to the story thematically, and in-story nothing gets changed besides Edric maybe getting chucked as heir to Starfall.

If Edric remained with Reeds, then sooner or later people would have realised who Jyana really is. And from there on it was just a matter of time for them to figure out that there was a reason for her to fake her suicide, that she can't be Jon's mother, that she, as Arthur's sister, was aware of what was going on with Arthur, Rhaegar and Lyanna, and from there its one more step to figuring out who Jon really is. And then Robert would have killed him and Ned (for betrayal), and Howland, and Ashara, and their children. Thus, to keep Jon (and everyone who was involved) safe, Ashara had to stay dead.

12 hours ago, Saint Alia of the Knife said:

I'd think Septa Lemore isn't Ashara, Elia (as one theory states), or anybody from Dorne that we know. If Lemore was Ashara, they'd be sending her to go lobby for FAegon in Dorne to get the spears they need for his invasion. Ashara is very likely to have been there for Aegon's birth at Dragonstone. If she was alive, she'd basically be the only person who could confirm Aegon's identity in an unbroken line from Dragonstone to the boy they have currently (who isn't shifty as hell and untrustworthy like Varys). Once the Golden Company / JonConn start campaigning for "Aegon Targaryen" under that name, keeping Septa Lemore (if she had a secret Westerosi identity) as secret wouldn't make sense when she could be used as an asset. Therefore, imo, no way Lemore is actually anybody important. 

I think that she's fAegon's mother, Lady Jeyne Swann. Le more in Italian, translates as blackberry, which is a hint to Blackfyres.

From Barristan's entry in White Book: "Rescued Lady Jeyne Swann and her septa from the Kingswood Brotherhood, defeating Simon Toyne and the Smiling Knight, slaying the former."

That unnamed septa with Jeyne was Shiera Seastar. The attack was staged, and then went bad, veered away from the original plan, and Varys' people (Smiling Knight and Simon Toyne, brother of Myles Toyne, captain-general of Golden Company, future (now dead) friend of Jon Connington) got killed. Afterwards Shiera gave love potion to Barri, and Jeyne seduced him. And it happened on the same day when was conceived real Aegon at King's Landing, when a comet was passing in the sky. The comet because of which Rhaegar thought that his Aegon is the Promised Prince, and Shiera made Varys think that his fAegon is the Promised Prince (maybe at that time she also thought so, believed that one of Blackfyres is going to be Azor Ahai. Though later she realised that both she and Rhaegar were wrong. They incorrectly interpreted the same prophecy).