Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, Wilbur said:

Raiders is probably the structurally perfect B-movie, with a tight script and the best production values and an outstanding cast.

B-movie?

[Wilbur]

33 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

B-movie?

Like an RKO Pictures serial film from the 1950s, an adventure film, the sort of which really disappeared in the 1970s.  Raiders was the opposite of Kramer vs Kramer or On Golden Pond, for instance.

[Gaston de Foix]

They invented a self-flying plane.  Cool.  

[Gaston de Foix]

"You know how to fly a plane don't you?.  No do you?"  A subtle pastiche of James Bond?

Indy is in some ways the anti-Bond.  Where Bond is suave, Indy is rugged.  Where Bond is calm and composed, Indy is grouchy.  Where Bond has effortless skills in all directions, Indy does...not.  But in a way that makes him more likeable.  Even getting his ass handed to him by an oversized German in a fight...who amongst us hasn't been there?

The part that I have a hard part getting past is the misogyny and the admitted child abuse.  As much as I tell myself it was a different era, it really wasn't.  Children are innocent and deserve to be protected.  ALWAYS.  

[Gaston de Foix]

9 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Now that the movie is over, @Gaston de Foix, how do you feel about one of the greatest characters ever actually not really having much direct impact in his feature film? 

You mean everything Indy did was pointless because the ark protected itself.  I thought it was funny.  I thought I detected a pastiche of Bond.  And frankly it made a lot of defense that a legendary and mythological super-weapon that endured had some kind of self-defense mechanism.  Otherwise, humanity being what it is, don't you think its name would have been carved through the bloody pages of our histories?

[Gaston de Foix]

Indy & Co. magically survive falling out of a plane because of the cushioning a raft provides.  And then survive the raft falling off a cliff into a torrent.  LOL. 

[Gaston de Foix]

Indy pulls out the evergreen namaste upon encountering an Indian.  I assume we are somewhere in the Himalayas. 

Btw Netflix describes the female lead as "a spoiled songbird".  I had understood that originally as a literal songbird but apparently not.  

[Gaston de Foix]

So they are going in search of a Sivalingam. Which is not a stone actually but a carved stone image of Lord Siva.  An ancient symbol of potency and priapism. 

I'm taking deep breaths in response to the skewed depictions of India.  But if there's an elephant chase or a tiger hunt somewhere in this, I'm gonna lose it...

[Rhom]

10 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

So they are going in search of a Sivalingam. Which is not a stone actually but a carved stone image of Lord Siva.  An ancient symbol of potency and priapism. 

I'm taking deep breaths in response to the skewed depictions of India.  But if there's an elephant chase or a tiger hunt somewhere in this, I'm gonna lose it...

I mean... I did ride an elephant up to a big fortress in Jaiphur once...

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

44 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

You mean everything Indy did was pointless because the ark protected itself.  I thought it was funny. 

Sort of. It's just an old joke about is Indy ever actually all that needed. Does him being there actually change anything about what would happen? Well yeah, sometimes, but sometimes not at all. I think it's a charming thing, to be honest. He isn't some magical hero that always saves the day. Indy just has a strong belief that important artifacts should be preserved, even if that means killing some people to get them, for academic purposes though, so it's all chill.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

21 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I mean... I did ride an elephant up to a big fortress in Jaiphur once...

 

[Gaston de Foix]

39 minutes ago, Rhom said:

I mean... I did ride an elephant up to a big fortress in Jaiphur once...

That's completely different.  I did that too and it's a lot of fun! 

17 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

JFK plaigirized that from Churchill:  "Dictators ride to and fro on tigers from which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry."

[Gaston de Foix]

9 hours ago, Wilbur said:

  Raiders was the opposite of Kramer vs Kramer or On Golden Pond, for instance.

Are those movies worth watching?

[Gaston de Foix]

Fortune and glory, kid.  Fortune and glory.  A good line. Maybe even a famous line? I swear I've read/heard it somewhere else.  

[Gaston de Foix]

Entrez la elephant. I'm sympathetic to Willy, since I too once fell off an elephant while trying to climb its back.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

26 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

JFK plaigirized that from Churchill:  "Dictators ride to and fro on tigers from which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry."

Find me the politician that doesn't plagiarize a bit, at least now and then.

[Gaston de Foix]

23 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Find me the politician that doesn't plagiarize a bit, at least now and then.

Trump.  An American original through and through.  

JFK's obsession with Churchill is actually interesting.  Isaiah Berlin observed when he met JFK he was obsessed with understanding the qualities that made Churchill a great man and was determined/desperate to emulate him.  Historians can debate whether he succeeded.  

JFK also popularized of the best one liners about Churchill (this time from Edward Murrow) "he mobilized the English language and sent it into battle". 

[Leofric]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Sort of. It's just an old joke about is Indy ever actually all that needed. Does him being there actually change anything about what would happen? Well yeah, sometimes, but sometimes not at all. I think it's a charming thing, to be honest. He isn't some magical hero that always saves the day. Indy just has a strong belief that important artifacts should be preserved, even if that means killing some people to get them, for academic purposes though, so it's all chill.

I thought the ending showed the other half of Indiana, the academic side.   He had studied and had a better understanding than Belloq and the Germans of what the Ark truly was.  They thought of it only as a weapon, but It wasn't a weapon at all, just a power artifact, a gift from directly God, and you needed to show humility and respect before it.   The Israelites understood this and used that knowledge to use the Ark as a weapon, I'm sure the Israelite army all ducked and covered with the mantra "We are Not Worthy" when the priests announced they were opening the ark, while their enemies were destroy by looking boldly on the power of God, just as Belloq and the Germans were.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Trump.  An American original through and through.  

Now we get to ride all the elephants! And maybe we can own just one. (I meant to link it to the joke, but the whole damn clip is just too funny).

Quote

JFK's obsession with Churchill is actually interesting.  Isaiah Berlin observed when he met JFK he was obsessed with understanding the qualities that made Churchill a great man and was determined/desperate to emulate him.  Historians can debate whether he succeeded.  

JFK also popularized of the best one liners about Churchill (this time from Edward Murrow) "he mobilized the English language and sent it into battle". 

I've read a few biographies on JFK, and yeah, that was something that at first surprised me, but then it made a lot more sense when understanding why he had such an affinity for the man.

But now as I think about, I really don't know or recall what Churchill thought of him.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, Leofric said:

I thought the ending showed the other half of Indiana, the academic side.   He had studied and had a better understanding than Belloq and the Germans of what the Ark truly was.  They thought of it only as a weapon, but It wasn't a weapon at all, just a power artifact, a gift from directly God, and you needed to show humility and respect before it.   The Israelites understood this and used that knowledge to use the Ark as a weapon, I'm sure the Israelite army all ducked and covered with the mantra "We are Not Worthy" when the priests announced they were opening the ark, while their enemies were destroy by looking boldly on the power of God, just as Belloq and the Germans were.  

Well yes and no. I agree with the first part. Both men were tomb raiders, but one did so for academic, and lest's be real, adventurous reasons. The other was just doing it for himself. That's why the former is the hero and gets the girl while the latter gets his face melted. 

Sorry, spoilers.

But you're wrong to say the Ark isn't a weapon. You just have to know how to use it, and within the constructs of the movie, admit maybe there is a God after all. (I, like Indy, am not very religious).