Lee-Sensei Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 32 minutes ago, S. D said: 1) Again, Cersei has no reason to lie about Robert raping her. If she was lying, her scene with Taena serves no purpose. You bringing up other instances where she is unreliable does not change anything. 1) First of all, she doesn’t call it rape. Secondly, she didn’t rape Taena. At best, these cases are questionable. 2) Did you find even 1 other example of him abusing a woman, yet? 3) I have a question for you. If we got a Lysa POV, how do you think she would describe sex with Jon Arryn? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. D Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Orm said: Ned doesn't know her age. He estimates it based on her looks. And I find that estimation to be a bit off since the person in question is a healthy mother... Most my Asian/mongoloid cousins, look a lot younger then they are. Does that mean they actually are? But I would like to Bobby B would be a pedo if he did that in the 21st century of our world... In his world he is guilty of nothing but Ned's very high moral ground.... I don't know why the author would bring up how young she is if he doesn't want us to make a judgement on it. And how do you know if she didn't have complications after? Rhaella had children at 13-14, but after that she had numerous miscarriages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. D Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 17 minutes ago, Lee-Sensei said: 1) First of all, she doesn’t call it rape. Secondly, she didn’t rape Taena. At best, these cases are questionable. 2) Did you find even 1 other example of him abusing a woman, yet? 3) I have a question for you. If we got a Lysa POV, how do you think she would describe sex with Jon Arryn? Again, all your points have convinced me we are at diametrically opposed worldviews. I see no use in prolonging the conversation. Ciao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 29 minutes ago, S. D said: I don't know why the author would bring up how young she is if he doesn't want us to make a judgement on it. And how do you know if she didn't have complications after? Rhaella had children at 13-14, but after that she had numerous miscarriages. It should be pointed out that Rhaella was a Queen with access to the best medical care possible in Westeros. Barra’s mother was a prostitute in a brothel. Do they really have equal access to adequate medical care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee-Sensei Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 20 minutes ago, S. D said: Again, all your points have convinced me we are at diametrically opposed worldviews. I see no use in prolonging the conversation. Ciao. Fine. You’re the one that wanted this conversation. I’ll wait until the next two books. If anyone actually comes out and vouchsafes that Robert raped her or we find an example of him abusing a woman, I’ll concede. Until that, I’ll maintain my skepticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 27 minutes ago, S. D said: I don't know why the author would bring up how young she is if he doesn't want us to make a judgement on it. And how do you know if she didn't have complications after? Rhaella had children at 13-14, but after that she had numerous miscarriages. To convey to us that Bobby B is over the hill from what he once was? To make it clear that Robert doesn't bother about the age of women he sleeps with, but is very kind to them? You can make a judgement on that. The Author is encouraging us to. But also remember that same Author considers Robert to be good, even with some of his less than stellar moments including this one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/27/2020 at 12:41 AM, Hugorfonics said: Stannis the tyrant I have to slay this lie...... If it is not enough for the vocal and Reasonable Stan the Man fanbase to convince you haters otherwise... Then let's listen to the Author, GRRM: "In spite of everything Stannis is a righteous man" " A true king knows that sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. Stannis is one of my few characters who understands this. That's why he is the rightful ruler of Westeros" And people question why, Stannis has such vocal fanbase dedicated to him... Yes, it is a fact he is a conflicting character... He always got the shortest end of the stick... I like Bobby B and I will also admit that Stannis is a man who would find an insult in a flower bouquet. But Bobby B is an absolute idiot to never bother with Stannis and distrusting him. Renly was only alive and well due to Stannis. Now Renly has his own nuance (I won't deny it) but years later that ungrateful pompous fool returned the favour of his elder brother with treachery.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/27/2020 at 7:28 AM, Wall Flower said: As for the topic, I'm not familiar with Son Goku, although I know he's based on the Monkey King from Journey to the West and from one of my favourite cult TV shows 'Monkey'. I have seen suggestions that Gaston from the animated Beauty and Beast might be a good fit for Robert - huge, black-haired, hunter who likes to play the hero and decorate with antlers. Gaston's a villain though. Yeah, I know Kid Goku is Based and inspired by The Chinese diety Monkey king Sun Wukong according to Akiyo Toriyama the author himself.... And if we are making a comparison with dieties then, no offense but if I have to spell it out to you which one Robert Baratheon is based on, then I think your a troll.... And I had enough with Disney movies since season 8... The train of thought is not compatible... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 12 hours ago, Orm said: I have to slay this lie...... If it is not enough for the vocal and Reasonable Stan the Man fanbase to convince you haters otherwise... Then let's listen to the Author, GRRM: "In spite of everything Stannis is a righteous man" " A true king knows that sacrifices have to be made for the greater good. Stannis is one of my few characters who understands this. That's why he is the rightful ruler of Westeros" And people question why, Stannis has such vocal fanbase dedicated to him... Yes, it is a fact he is a conflicting character... He always got the shortest end of the stick... I like Bobby B and I will also admit that Stannis is a man who would find an insult in a flower bouquet. But Bobby B is an absolute idiot to never bother with Stannis and distrusting him. Renly was only alive and well due to Stannis. Now Renly has his own nuance (I won't deny it) but years later that ungrateful pompous fool returned the favour of his elder brother with treachery.... So I aint no Stannis hater. Hes my favorite king and one of my favorite secondary characters, hes also a tyrant who would be as happy to execute Janos without incriminating evidence as hed be for burning Sunglass for denouncing his red god. You should take SSMs with a grain of salt. Most these SSMs come from like comiccon situations, damn vultures and bloodsuckers hovering around the author, ready to burn this bitch down if he insults the wrong twilight boyfriend. Which I think, this us vs them mentality, its not what GRRM wants us to think. As it is, these strict dimensions that Jon Tyrion and Dany live in is shattering for their world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey family reunion Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 I don't think of Robert as a glutton in a similar manner to Illyrio. I Robert's biggest vice of overindulgence is drinking (eta: well that and sex). I think he's a full blown alcoholic, which is proably where much of his weight comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 10 hours ago, Hugorfonics said: So I aint no Stannis hater. Hes my favorite king and one of my favorite secondary characters, hes also a tyrant who would be as happy to execute Janos without incriminating evidence as hed be for burning Sunglass for denouncing his red god. You should take SSMs with a grain of salt. Most these SSMs come from like comiccon situations, damn vultures and bloodsuckers hovering around the author, ready to burn this bitch down if he insults the wrong twilight boyfriend. Which I think, this us vs them mentality, its not what GRRM wants us to think. As it is, these strict dimensions that Jon Tyrion and Dany live in is shattering for their world Umm.... Ok.... Everyone with power in ASOIAF is a Tyrant in one way or another I suppose.... And the, Us Vs Them mentality is really annoying I agree.... Especially as some in the forum are being special snowflakes, using SJW logic and pretending a thing called moral relativism doesn't exist.... I mean seriously what you find acceptable in 2020 might turn out to be disgusting in 2222..... But ur right, this is not what the author wants...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 10 hours ago, Frey family reunion said: I don't think of Robert as a glutton in a similar manner to Illyrio. I Robert's biggest vice of overindulgence is drinking (eta: well that and sex). I think he's a full blown alcoholic, which is proably where much of his weight comes from. Well it seems, he suffers from alcoholism, PTSD and ADHD..... A therapist would've solved half his issues, I would say.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 On 8/27/2020 at 12:49 AM, Lee-Sensei said: Probably, but asoiaf is more of a seinen. It’s pretty dark. I actually saw some memes recently comparing Robert to Guts and Rhaegar to Griffith.:P Eren Jaegar is another shonen hero archetype on a seinen setting.... Currently, in the manga he's turning out to be quite the prophet Hitler if you follow or watched AOT.... I haven't watched or read berserk..... Yet But I know of the comparison too. Guts is somewhat seems to be a mixture of Bobby B/Sandor while, Griffith is somewhat a Rhaegar/little finger... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 29, 2020 Share Posted August 29, 2020 11 hours ago, Orm said: Umm.... Ok.... Everyone with power in ASOIAF is a Tyrant in one way or another I suppose.... I suppose thats true 11 hours ago, Orm said: And the, Us Vs Them mentality is really annoying I agree.... Especially as some in the forum are being special snowflakes, using SJW logic and pretending a thing called moral relativism doesn't exist.... Hmmm.... Special snowflakes huh? Attempting to use moral relativism in asoiaf is to justify the slaving Ghiscari or the thralling Ironborn. Might as well glorify Ramsays skinchanging 11 hours ago, Orm said: I mean seriously what you find acceptable in 2020 might turn out to be disgusting in 2222..... I doubt it, but if my grandchildrens grandchildren wanna judge me, so be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 29, 2020 Author Share Posted August 29, 2020 11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said: Attempting to use moral relativism in asoiaf is to justify the slaving Ghiscari or the thralling Ironborn. Might as well glorify Ramsays skinchanging You misunderstood me..... The things you are noting are already morally depraved in the setting. The things I argue about are things people in that setting wouldn't bat an eye at but some in the forum are Butt-hurt about it... 11 hours ago, Hugorfonics said: doubt it, but if my grandchildrens grandchildren wanna judge me, so be it Huh, you know its true.... If the progression of society is linearly positive (in my subjective view, which I don't think is gonna happen given how we humans love violence) then eating animal meat might be criminally offending and disgusting in the future someday... But who knows.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 18 hours ago, Orm said: You misunderstood me..... The things you are noting are already morally depraved in the setting. No theyre not. None of the ironborn see thralldom as depraved, some like Theon try to convince the smallfolk that thralldom is a steo in the right direction. Similarly Essos characters like Xaro Sweets or Penny dont view slavery as the abhorrent that Westeros does 18 hours ago, Orm said: The things I argue about are things people in that setting wouldn't bat an eye at but some in the forum are Butt-hurt about it Yea but Westeros is an awful place where characters at the earliest age learn to not bat an eye in the face of wickedness . "In the name of Robert of the House Baratheon, the First of his Name, King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm, by the word of Eddard of the House Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, I do sentence you to die." He lifted the greatsword high above his head. Bran's bastard brother Jon Snow moved closer. "Keep the pony well in hand," he whispered. "And don't look away. Father will know if you do." Bran kept his pony well in hand, and did not look away. . 18 hours ago, Orm said: If the progression of society is linearly positive (in my subjective view, which I don't think is gonna happen given how we humans love violence) then eating animal meat might be criminally offending and disgusting in the future someday... But who knows.... Who cares? If someone wants to judge me a couple hundred years after im in the ground, why would I care? (How would i care really) Honestly I find this a silly argument, animals are dumb and delicious, I absolutely see no difference in morality from eating a burger to eating an apple Humans however are not dumb animals and high crimes like rape slavery and flay should only be compared to other high crimes and not eating meat like its lunch time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: No theyre not. None of the ironborn see thralldom as depraved, some like Theon try to convince the smallfolk that thralldom is a steo in the right direction. Similarly Essos characters like Xaro Sweets or Penny dont view slavery as the abhorrent that Westeros does Technically speaking slavery never went away..... Degrees have severely reduced forms have been sensored...... The kinds in westeros are too abhorrent and morally depraved from my subjective view.... 13 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Who cares? If someone wants to judge me a couple hundred years after im in the ground, why would I care? (How would i care really) Honestly I find this a silly argument, animals are dumb and delicious, I absolutely see no difference in morality from eating a burger to eating an apple Like minded I see,... Also something Rick would say and I would agree with.... 11 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: In the name of Robert of the House Baratheon, the First of his Name, King of the Andals and the Rhoynar and the First Men, Lord of the Seven Kingdoms and Protector of the Realm, by the word of Eddard of the House Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North, I do sentence you to die." He lifted the greatsword high above his head. Bran's bastard brother Jon Snow moved closer. "Keep the pony well in hand," he whispered. "And don't look away. Father will know if you do." Bran kept his pony well in hand, and did not look away. Yup, you are absolutely right.... But nobody seems to cause much grief to Ned Stark for his unjust execution of Will over it..... 15 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Humans however are not dumb animals and high crimes like rape slavery and flay should only be compared to other high crimes and not eating meat like its lunch time Again you are quite right...... But that was not the issue I was arguing about..... And I know my priorities when reading dark fantasy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugorfonics Posted August 30, 2020 Share Posted August 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Orm said: Technically speaking slavery never went away..... Degrees have severely reduced forms have been sensored...... In Westeros? I mean NW and KG have shitty lives but they still get paid Real life? Yea sure, but its largely illegal 2 hours ago, Orm said: But nobody seems to cause much grief to Ned Stark for his unjust execution of Will over it..... In real life? Yea I agree. Idk why 2 hours ago, Orm said: But that was not the issue I was arguing about..... So what were you getting at? 2 hours ago, Orm said: And I know my priorities when reading dark fantasy..... To enjoy yourself! I assume, thats why i read fiction. And I like dark shit, bad guys and what not, which is why I like Ramsay. Which is not to say I approve of Ramsays actions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orm Posted August 30, 2020 Author Share Posted August 30, 2020 28 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: So what were you getting at? It wasn't you...... You seem fine... 29 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: To enjoy yourself! I assume, thats why i read fiction Ditto 30 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: And I like dark shit, bad guys and what not, which is why I like Ramsay I am a Madara Stan kind of person ( you would know if you watched Naruto)... I actually route for "villains" like him.. But I can't relate shit with Ramsay even on days I am feeling super criminal... Never understood his motivations.... He and Euron make quite the scare though..... 37 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said: Which is not to say I approve of Ramsays actions Neither do I.... But, some don't get it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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