Time and Causality

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, LynnS said:

Yes, I want to avoid this as well.  Everything isn't driven by competition.  I don't want this to be who is right and who is wrong; who wins and who loses.  I'm driven by curiosity, mysteries and puzzles.  

 

10 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

The Riverlands Web was indeed another such thread, we made it our business to welcome all newcomers and encourage new ideas and discussion.

When all the silliness and social experiment boils away is there anything better than watching someone make connections in a topic?  Community and discovery is what this journey is all about.  While I enjoy a good fight as much as anyone, I'd rather have someone teach me something and help explore all those mysteries and puzzles.   Not unlike time travel!  

[Wizz-The-Smith]

2 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Yes, I want to avoid this as well.  Everything isn't driven by competition.  I don't want this to be who is right and who is wrong; who wins and who loses.  I'm driven by curiosity, mysteries and puzzles.  

Exactly. In my experience, the combined effort and ideas of many is the best way to form a clearer picture. 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

2 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

 

When all the silliness and social experiment boils away is there anything better than watching someone make connections in a topic?  Community and discovery is what this journey is all about.  While I enjoy a good fight as much as anyone, I'd rather have someone teach me something and help explore all those mysteries and puzzles.   Not unlike time travel!  

Maybe not the fighting bit, you seem to have turned into an expert in everything swords & swordcraft, so I'll avoid such duels.  

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On 11/17/2020 at 12:08 PM, LynnS said:

Reading your post again Wizz, this jumps out.  The mirroring in the description is the same concept as BR's description of time: the oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak.  Also the way in which Bran and Jon describe the Skirling pass:  Bran touches Ghost and talks to Jon,, Bran talks to Jon, then touches Ghost.  These are dreams or lessons that operate through time: the past to the future, and the future to the past.

This is very freaking cool, great observation. I wonder if there are any more scattered throughout the text? I know @ravenous reader would love this, she has spoken about inversions and their potential meanings before. 

On 11/17/2020 at 12:08 PM, LynnS said:

That Bran can see the moon from the cave implies that he is seeing with the new weirwood eyes of a greenseer.  Not just from the weirwood above BR's cave but from any tree he visits. 

Absolutely. He is also skinchanging ravens and going outside of the cave whilst warging Summer. 

On 11/17/2020 at 12:08 PM, LynnS said:

The sickle moon and the sickle blade used in sacrifice are connected.  Bran may be experiencing the sacrifice made to every tree he visits.  What is the purpose of such a lesson?  

There may be multiple connections. I think one of them is a connection between the moon & Greenseers relating back to the first Long Night. 

Yes, I'm a fan of Lml's 'two moons & moon meteor' theory. Lml has coined the phrase 'naughty greenseer' for one who may have reached too high & caused a catastrophic event in the ancient past. The trees are repeatedly reaching for the moon with those branches acting as grasping limbs.   

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On 11/16/2020 at 5:47 PM, Melifeather said:

Yes. I think the Black Gate is a portal. The author specifically compared time to an ocean where you could drop down anywhere and have an effect. Bloodraven said men are trapped in a river of time that only moves forward. The Black Gate is down a well. Wells are accesses to water, so the location of the Black Gate suggests that Bran exited the river that men are trapped in, went through a portal, and gained access to the ocean of time.

This is very cool. On top of what George has said regards the river of time and time as an ocean, there is the pun that@ravenous reader found relating to the under the sea(see)/green sea/greensee wordplay. 

I wrote an essay on all the various hollow hill sites (greenseers caves/base, all with weirwood trees atop the hill creating weirwood thrones beneath etc) One of the various consistencies was a water motif. Pretty much all these sites had a subterranean river or pool or a well etc. All playing in to this idea of a river of time or 'under the greensee' pun. 

I like what you say about Bran going through the portal (Black Gate) to gain access to the ocean of time. Moreover, this portal is actually a tree embedded within the Wall itself, so Bran has metaphorically 'gone into the tree' as a Gseer would do. Which as we know is the key to being able to drop in to the past (or ocean of time) as we see Bran do in ADWD. 

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

This is very freaking cool, great observation. I wonder if there are any more scattered throughout the text? I know @ravenous reader would love this, she has spoken about inversions and their potential meanings before. 

I'm hoping Ravenous Reader will join us at some point when she has some free time. 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys II

"No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun's son and the mummer's dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."

"Reznak? Why should I fear him?" Dany rose from the pool. Water trickled down her legs, and gooseflesh covered her arms in the cool night air. "If you have some warning for me, speak plainly. What do you want of me, Quaithe?"

Moonlight shone in the woman's eyes. "To show you the way."

A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys X

She dreamed. All her cares fell away from her, and all her pains as well, and she seemed to float upward into the sky. She was flying once again, spinning, laughing, dancing, as the stars wheeled around her and whispered secrets in her ear. "To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward, you must go back. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

"Quaithe?" Dany called. "Where are you, Quaithe?"

Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight.

What do we reckon about Quaithe?  Her eyes are full of moonlight and her mask is made of starlight.  I always assumed she was coming to Dany by means of a glass candle.  But Dany doesn't have a candle and Quaihe tells her she is not dreaming.  Quaithe has also made some kind of connection to Dany with touch: 

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys III

The woman took a step backward. "You must leave this city soon, Daenerys Targaryen, or you will never be permitted to leave it at all."

Dany's wrist still tingled where Quaithe had touched her. "Where would you have me go?" she asked.

"To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward you must go back, and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow."

Is it possible that Quaithe is also using a moon-door and can fly as high as the sky to spy out the land?

ETA: Also does the red door of Dany's dreams represent a moon door and is Quaithe's red wooden mask linked in some way to the red door?

[LynnS]

19 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

I wrote an essay on all the various hollow hill sites (greenseers caves/base, all with weirwood trees atop the hill creating weirwood thrones beneath etc)

I'd like to read it if you have a link.

[Wizz-The-Smith]

11 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I'd like to read it if you have a link.

Of course, no problem.

I have discussed this topic with others since I published this essay and developed many of the ideas. I cut a lot of detail from the original as well (due to size and ease of reading) the water motif being one of them. 

I saw the pattern, but after @ravenous reader posted her under the sea/greensee essay it made more sense. 

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the read. 

Edit: The title and quote from Bran's chapter is rather apt for this thread. 

Quote

The caves were timeless, vast, silent. They were home to more than three score living singers and the bones of thousands dead, and extended far below the hollow hill. "Men should not go wandering in this place," Leaf warned them. "The river you hear is swift and black, and flows down and down to a sunless sea. And there are passages that go even deeper, bottomless pits and sudden shafts, forgotten ways that lead to the very center of the earth. Even my people have not explored them all, and we have lived here for a thousand thousand of your man-years."

 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

5 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

GRRM is giving mixed messages as to the timing of these events.  The first issue, is that there is a significant discrepancy between Bran’s views on darkness during his time in the crypts and Bran’s views on darkness when he makes contact with Jon through Ghost:

In Bran’s last wolf dream before he leaves the crypts he seems to hate the darkness:

Now compare Bran’s thoughts about the dark when he makes contact with Ghost and Jon while Jon is in the Skirling Pass:

It’s an intentional discrepancy that makes me at least doubt that this is the same Bran that was in the Winterfell crypts.  

The other thing to keep in mind is that the Bran in the Winterfell crypts was still trying to figure his own powers out.  It seems doubtful that this Bran would be so confident, that he would be able to reach out to Jon (or Ghost) and awaken Jon’s (or Ghost’s) fledging gifts.    This Bran also seemed to be limited in viewing things through Summer’s eyes.  He hadn’t yet learned to wed himself to the Weirwoods yet.

I think it’s more likely that this Bran, confident in his abilities and powers and a Bran who likes the cover of darkness and who appears to already be wedded to the Weirwood is a future version of Bran nestled in the cradle of Bloodraven’s cave.

Excellent post. Very strong evidence in support of Bran going back in time and visiting Jon's dream from BR's cave. 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

14 hours ago, LynnS said:

Theon is another character with a damaged mind and body.  He is on the cusp of lifting the veil to see beyond or having Bran reach through the mists to him.  Physically, he is close to death and longs for it.  Ramsey has repeatedly weakened his mind to near insanity. These seem to be the conditions for Bran to use him in some manner.  He may become someone who can speak to trees.

Absolutely agree. In fact I think that Bran has already reached out to Theon and forged a connection. When parsing the chapter 'A Ghost in Winterfell' I speculated that Bran has already advanced his powers to a startling degree of mastery. As I described earlier in the thread, Bran achieved everything he couldn't do when he saw Ned in his first wedding to the tree.

The night was windless, yet Bran is rustling the leaves and saying Theon's name. This shows how in control of the tree Bran is, he no longer needs wind, it's like the tree is an extension of himself. 

Theon hears him speak -- his face is in the tree and all that.....

But more importantly in response to your point, Bran has reached out to Theon and may have opened his third eye. Or at the very least made a connection for Bran to exploit moving forward. Here's the passage.....

Quote

- A Ghost in Winterfell 

The night was windless, the snow drifting straight down out of a cold black sky, yet the leaves of the heart tree were rustling his name. "Theon," they seemed to whisper, "Theon."

The old gods, he thought. They know me. They know my name. I was Theon of House Greyjoy. I was a ward of Eddard Stark, a friend and brother to his children. "Please." He fell to his knees. "A sword, that's all I ask. Let me die as Theon, not as Reek." Tears trickled down his cheeks, impossibly warm. "I was ironborn. A son ... a son of Pyke, of the islands."

A leaf drifted down from above, brushed his brow, and landed in the pool. It floated on the water, red, five-fingered, like a bloody hand. "...Bran," the tree murmured.

If the tree is as I suspect, an extension of Bran himself, then the trees movements are Bran's movements. As the leaves of the weirwood trees are described as hands, that would mean they are Bran's hands. 

Therefore, the bolded text is basically Bran reaching out to Theon and brushing his brow, or forehead. Classic opening of the third eye.

For those shouting "Theon is not a skinchanger or Gseer!" I hear you, but perhaps this is a way for Bran the greenseer to make the connection with someone in order to make contact in the future. (As per my hills essay, I actually think there's something to do with First Men blood connections that enable one to be contacted even if they aren't a skinchanger or Gseer. Ala BR's line "your blood makes you a greenseer") 

Finally, I agree he may be able to speak to trees 

Spoiler

Perhaps the weirwood tree on the island near the crofters village where Stannis and co are currently. 

I've been working on an essay surrounding this very topic, trees talking or being able to speak to trees,  but it's a way off being finished yet. Soon(ish) hopefully. 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

4 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm hoping Ravenous Reader will join us at some point when she has some free time. 

What do we reckon about Quaithe?  Her eyes are full of moonlight and her mask is made of starlight.  I always assumed she was coming to Dany by means of a glass candle.  But Dany doesn't have a candle and Quaihe tells her she is not dreaming.  Quaithe has also made some kind of connection to Dany with touch: 

Is it possible that Quaithe is also using a moon-door and can fly as high as the sky to spy out the land?

ETA: Also does the red door of Dany's dreams represent a moon door and is Quaithe's red wooden mask linked in some way to the red door?

Awesome, always good to have the raven involved.

As for Quaithe, that's a very cool connection, but not one I've ever thought about. I'll have to ponder that one.  

Ps: Sorry I'm posting a load, I had to catch up on the thread.  

[Wizz-The-Smith]

On 11/17/2020 at 9:05 PM, LynnS said:

This is very hard to prove.  Did Bran do this from the cave of skulls using Summer? Because the Wall will not allow Bran to warg Summer if they are separated by the Wall.

Hey, me again. 

As I suggested upthread, I actually think Gseers may be able to bypass the ward in the Wall that seems to stop a plain ol' skinchanger connecting or feeling a connection with their beast. 

Imo, the subterranean is as much a magic realm as the trees themselves. Ygritte (in other words the author) has told us the tunnels all connect. Every hollow hill has them seemingly stretching for miles, and there are Hhill sites all over the continent. We are specifically told there are miles of tunnels that go directly under the Wall. Basically, I think the greenseers can use the subterranean rivers and tunnels as a sort of root system for the continent ala skinchanging the trees. 

Additionally, I think there is evidence that Bloodraven has been able to skinchange creatures south the Wall. Here's some quotes I think may insinuate such....

Quote

"I have watched you for a long time, watched you with a thousand eyes and one. I saw your birth, and that of your Lord father before you. I saw your first step, heard your first word, was part of your first dream. I was watching when you fell. And now you are come to me at last Brandon Stark, though the hour is late."

I don't think one can watch these events through dreams, Bloodraven must've been skinchanging crows or ravens and watching everything unfold before him. This is especially compelling when thinking about Bran's fall, as we know the birds were definitely present. Bran even contemplates the possibility of skinchanging ravens at Winterfell....

Quote

- Bran III, A Dance with Dragons

'He wished Robb were with them now. I'd tell him I could fly, but he wouldn't believe, so I'd have to show him. I bet he could learn to fly too, him and Arya and Sansa, even baby Rickon and Jon Snow. We could all be ravens and live in Maester Luwin's rookery.'

Furthermore, there is this neat quote from the Riverlands as a crow is following the Hound and Arya. 

Quote

'Arya glanced over her shoulder, but there was nothing behind them but a crow flitting from tree to tree. The only sound was the river.'

Bloodraven being a crow fits nicely with his Night's Watch background. While flitting from tree to tree sounds exactly like a greenseer moving from tree to tree, looking through the eyes of the weirwoods up and down the continent. (Whenever I see the phrase 'from tree to tree' I think Gseer)

The only sound being the river could work as both a nod to the river of time enabling such a connection, and to Bloodravens bastard name of Rivers.  

After all, if Jon and Arya are going to play key roles moving forward, surely Bloodraven would be keeping an eye on them as well, no? Especially if Jon is an individual who may fulfil a prophecy etc. 

Talking of keeping an eye on Jon, I've noticed people have been avoiding naming Bloodraven as a potential inhabitant of Mormont's raven. But with this evidence at hand (if indeed you think said evidence is plausible) Bloodraven skinchanging Mormont's raven becomes a potentially strong option. (I agree Bran is also a good option, especially after his last chapter. However, this still requires a circumvention of the ward/block in the Wall.) 

Anyhoo, in my humble (and not so important) opinion, it seems to me Greenseers positioned north of the Wall can indeed skinchange animals south of the Wall.     

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Anyhoo, in my humble (and not so important) opinion, it seems to me Greenseers positioned north of the Wall can indeed skinchange animals south of the Wall.     

I'm completely on board with this idea. In fact I was jut about to pose some questions on this very subject.  This goes to Seams question about BR knowing less about Bran's powers than we assume.  And I'd also say, what do we know about BR's powers besides next to nothing.  I'm curious about this statement:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

"When?" Bran wanted to know.

"In a year, or three, or ten. That I have not glimpsed. It will come in time, I promise you. But I am tired now, and the trees are calling me. We will resume on the morrow."

The trees?  Is this another way of saying the 'dreamers' are calling him?

Quote

Bran ate with Summer and his pack, as a wolf. As a raven he flew with the murder, circling the hill at sunset, watching for foes, feeling the icy touch of the air. As Hodor he explored the caves. He found chambers full of bones, shafts that plunged deep into the earth, a place where the skeletons of gigantic bats hung upside down from the ceiling. He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies.

Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak. "Hodor," Bran said to him, and he felt the real Hodor stir down in his pit.

One passage was full of singers/cotf and how many undiscovered passages are full of singers?  Singers/dreamers/trees.  Do these singers makeup the flocks of ravens and crows that scout and follow Coldhands; that show up at Winterfell when Bran is present to watch Ramsey's wedding?

When tree-Bran touches Ghost-Jon, my assumption is that he hasn't just activated Jon's third eye, he has established a connection with him.   Same with Theon.  What about Leaf?

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Bran III

It had a bitter taste, though not so bitter as acorn paste. The first spoonful was the hardest to get down. He almost retched it right back up. The second tasted better. The third was almost sweet. The rest he spooned up eagerly. Why had he thought that it was bitter? It tasted of honey, of new-fallen snow, of pepper and cinnamon and the last kiss his mother ever gave him. The empty bowl slipped from his fingers and clattered on the cavern floor. "I don't feel any different. What happens next?"

Leaf touched his hand. "The trees will teach you. The trees remember." He raised a hand, and the other singers began to move about the cavern, extinguishing the torches one by one. The darkness thickened and crept toward them.

 

[LynnS]

Musical Interlude.

 

[LynnS]

17 hours ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the read. 

I did enjoy it!  So many good ideas!  The greenseer wars for one and the idea that these ancient bloodlines have petered and died out or exist in an inactive form re-emerging in characters like Jaimie, Theon and dare I say Euron and the Damphair.  These cavers beneath castles map out a very extensive underground system and the hidden cities of the COTF.  Bran/Hodor's exploration of BR's cave shows the vastness of the cave system and the weirwood root system as well.  I think the weirwood are like mushrooms, with extensive underground filaments with the occasional tree showing above the surface.

[LynnS]

@Black Crow

Hello Black Crow!  Since GRRM has said recently that Rickon has an important part to play in the story; do you have any thoughts on what that might be?

We have been discussing Bran's potential power and it seems evident that all the Stark kids have some uber-powers.  Arya warging Nymeria from across the Narrow Sea for example. If the eyes of the direwolves mark the Stark kids, i.e. eyes like gold coins, golden eyes like the sun, red eyes like the old gods; what can we surmise from Shaggy's eyes like green fire and a coat that turns black from dark grey?  

Who do you think has chosen Rickon?  Rickon ha a stormy and unpredictable disposition and there is this:

Quote

Game of Thrones - Bran IV

In the yard below, Rickon ran with the wolves.

Bran watched from his window seat. Wherever the boy went, Grey Wind was there first, loping ahead to cut him off, until Rickon saw him, screamed in delight, and went pelting off in another direction. Shaggydog ran at his heels, spinning and snapping if the other wolves came too close. His fur had darkened until he was all black, and his eyes were green fire. Bran's Summer came last. He was silver and smoke, with eyes of yellow gold that saw all there was to see. Smaller than Grey Wind, and more wary. Bran thought he was the smartest of the litter. He could hear his brother's breathless laughter as Rickon dashed across the hard-packed earth on little baby legs.

Rickon seems to have a special connection to at least three direwolves.  

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran IV

"That's not my favorite," he said. "My favorites were the scary ones." He heard some sort of commotion outside and turned back to the window. Rickon was running across the yard toward the gatehouse, the wolves following him, but the tower faced the wrong way for Bran to see what was happening. He smashed a fist on his thigh in frustration and felt nothing.

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran IV

"Your brother Jon asked it of me. And I have a tender spot in my heart for cripples and bastards and broken things." Tyrion Lannister placed a hand over his heart and grinned.

The door to the yard flew open. Sunlight came streaming across the hall as Rickon burst in, breathless. The direwolves were with him. The boy stopped by the door, wide-eyed, but the wolves came on. Their eyes found Lannister, or perhaps they caught his scent. Summer began to growl first. Grey Wind picked it up. They padded toward the little man, one from the right and one from the left.

I'm wondering if Rickon will emerge as the leader of Nymeria's wolf pack and if his power will be in controlling the pack. GRRM's version of a Tilkein's warg army.

I'm also wondering if Rickon is connected to the green men in some way?  If we'll see the green men, the storm god and a warg army aligned together at some point.

Could this be foreshadowing? 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

I did enjoy it!  So many good ideas!  The greenseer wars for one and the idea that these ancient bloodlines have petered and died out or exist in an inactive form re-emerging in characters like Jaimie, Theon and dare I say Euron and the Damphair.  These cavers beneath castles map out a very extensive underground system and the hidden cities of the COTF.  Bran/Hodor's exploration of BR's cave shows the vastness of the cave system and the weirwood root system as well.  I think the weirwood are like mushrooms, with extensive underground filaments with the occasional tree showing above the surface.

That's great, really glad you enjoyed it. Yes, once the picture is laid out one can really see the connection between the ancient houses, greenseer magic and the want to protect the knowledge and magic sites they've acquired. The evidence of the various wars back this up. The magic bloodlines have always made me think there are many other characters with magic genes in this story. Maybe not Gseers or skinchangers, but as you have also speculated, ones that may be easier to connect with via magic/old gods etc.

Once you start to dig deeper there are lots of cool parallels and tidbits George may be using. Everything entailing old gods and weirwood magic seems to be a mixture of Norse and Celtic myth. In Celtic myth the faeries (sidhe) were invaded, made a pact, and were given half the island of Ireland, but they were tricked and given the subterranean half. They retreated into hollow hills to live underground as gods. This is almost exactly the tale of the CotF. Interestingly, when mortals visited the Sidhe, time was not the same in the Celtic Underworld. If one was there for 3 days, then once they returned it could be that 300 years had passed. Sidhe were said to live long lives and always looked young. This sounds like a mixture of the CotF and the human Gseers. 

Caves are known as the womb of the world/mother earth, and represent death and rebirth. Think animals retreating into caves before reappearing, hibernation etc. Ancient humans would bury their dead in caves or barrows (burial mounds designed to represent the womb & birth canal) ready for rebirth into the next life. Lots of cool death-re-birth imagery. This I think plays into the death and re-birth of a Gseer, second life, ironborn rituals, kill the boy....etc 

The Celtic Underworld was simply put, a subterranean magic realm, and it shares a load of similarities with the Westerosi (and even Essosi Underworld) There's a load more but won't go on. 

As for the bolded, I really like that idea. Whether it be tunnels, subterranean rivers, roots, underground filaments, the idea that everything is connected is a solid one imo. Like a spider's web, once one strand is disturbed the rest of the web shakes in unison. George has used this analogy in his writing. 

With this idea in mind, have you read the Pando theory? It's another enjoyable read. Not everyone agrees with the posters take on what's evil and what's not, but a very thought provoking and well written essay. If you're interested in reading it I'll leave a link here for to you peruse at your leisure.  

[Melifeather]

25 minutes ago, Wizz-The-Smith said:

With this idea in mind, have you read the Pando theory? It's another enjoyable read. Not everyone agrees with the posters take on what's evil and what's not, but a very thought provoking and well written essay. If you're interested in reading it I'll leave a link here for to you peruse at your leisure.  

I laughed at the TL:DR! haha 

[Wizz-The-Smith]

5 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

I laughed at the TL:DR! haha 

Haha! Yep, it's just tasty white cake full red veins that are not blood at all. It's syrup. Delicious strawberry syrup.  

[Wizz-The-Smith]

15 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm completely on board with this idea. In fact I was jut about to pose some questions on this very subject. 

15 hours ago, LynnS said:

I'm curious about this statement:

The trees?  Is this another way of saying the 'dreamers' are calling him?

Good question. I'm not sure exactly. When I first read that I thought 'oh, the trees can somehow alert Bloodraven that they've seen something worthy of reporting'. 

Then I've considered that if he has to train Bran and the time is short, then maybe it was an information dump?

Alternatively, the trees have just watched Bran perform way above expectations, (he was only supposed to enter the roots of the weirwood atop the cave/Hhill they are in) so perhaps the trees/Gseers were like......  "shit, call in the Bman, we've got ourselves an unprecedented prodigy on our blood red hands here"

However, I very much like your idea that it's the dreamers hooked up to other root thrones that were calling BR. That would perhaps make most sense? 

I'm really not sure, but the very notion that the trees/dreamers/wwnet can alert the greenseer to various bits of important information is pretty damn cool.   

15 hours ago, LynnS said:

One passage was full of singers/cotf and how many undiscovered passages are full of singers?  Singers/dreamers/trees.  Do these singers makeup the flocks of ravens and crows that scout and follow Coldhands; that show up at Winterfell when Bran is present to watch Ramsey's wedding?

Yep, that is an exciting discovery. One would think there are more than just the singers/dreamers Brodor stumbles upon in that passage. How many more is anyone's guess, but I'm confident in saying there must be more than what we see on first discovery. 

I agree these singers make up the flocks of ravens and crows that scout and follow Coldhands. It would make total sense considering they're speaking the True Tongue, as we know no human speaks it. Someone with skinchanging ability and knowledge of the True Tongue is in those birds, it must be those dreamers. Now Bran can learn it, as Brandon the Builder did in ancient times. Sweet.

16 hours ago, LynnS said:

When tree-Bran touches Ghost-Jon, my assumption is that he hasn't just activated Jon's third eye, he has established a connection with him.   Same with Theon.  What about Leaf?

I'd again agree that the touching of the forehead/brow works as both a third eye opening and a magical connection 

The Leaf example is a new one for me. I like the link you've found between the Dani -- Quaithe and Bran -- Leaf text. There seems to be something there, I'll have to read those passages again and think on them some more. Great observation though.