US Politics - And Now it Begins

[DMC]

When the Tea Party first emerged, there was hope it could eventually be defeated or neutralized.  That's because they were overwhelmingly comprised (even for the GOP) of well-to-do older white men.  After over a decade of doubling, tripling, quadrupling down on the crazy though, I think that hope has long since faded.  The only way the GOP will reverse course from its extremist trajectory is if it's thoroughly and consistently defeated over at least three or four more cycles.  Hardly optimistic there.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Fez said:

They'll take their cues from the head of the party, whoever that is. E.g. in 2008, there was certainly some crazy on the fringes, but the GOP was mostly just bad policy since Bush and McCain for the most part weren't supportive of it. Once McCain lost though, the crazies ignored him and went full bore crazy, starting with the Tea Party conspiracy stuff.

If Republicans ever have a successful nominee again who wants to put a damper on the crazy, I think most of the party will follow along; at least for the 4/8 years that person is in the White House. But I think the odds of this is low. Even if a non-true believer wins, they'll probably find it too useful to pander to the crazy, the way Romney circa 2012 mostly did.

I agree. And I'd put the odds at really, really low. Nothing indicates a more moderate, or frankly, sane candidate has a chance of winning the nomination in the near term. I said fairly early on in Trump's Administration that the only thing that would disrupt his support and the current Republican zeitgeist was a calamity no one could deny.  Well we got one of those and it did nothing to negatively hurt his support.

[ThinkerX]

The Trump trolls infesting my Facebook display abysmal ignorance on the basics of how the US government works.  When I pointed out the *really* elementary level stuff - Congress being the one that makes laws and having the power of the purse being one - their reaction was 'huh? wtf?' - knowledge that basic had been overwritten by all the conspiracy idiocy.  The ones that did grasp it shut up, the others went on about executive orders.    

[DMC]

In absolutely shocking news, Trump to pardon Michael Flynn:

Quote

Sources with direct knowledge of the discussions said Flynn will be part of a series of pardons that Trump issues between now and when he leaves office.

Oh, also, as a reminder - Flynn's lawyer is Sidney Powell.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

19 minutes ago, DMC said:

In absolutely shocking news, Trump to pardon Michael Flynn:

Oh, also, as a reminder - Flynn's lawyer is Sidney Powell.

VEEP aimed low. Meyer would be a historically great president by comparison. 

[Fragile Bird]

I’m sure you’ve all seen it but just haven’t mentioned it, but Biden has now crossed the 80M vote mark, a new record.

[TrackerNeil]

23 hours ago, DMC said:

Obama would never give that instruction, Garland would never follow it, and the other 8 members would never allow it.

You make my point for me. The Democrats didn't "blink"; Barack Obama chose to avoid a battle he didn't think he could fight, much less win.

(I'm less certain than you about the outcome, but what we think doesn't matter. It's what Obama thought that counts.)

[DMC]

6 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Biden has now crossed the 80M vote mark, a new record.

Every time he gets another vote it's a new record.  

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

VEEP aimed low. Meyer would be a historically great president by comparison. 

Never got into it.

1 minute ago, TrackerNeil said:

You make my point for me. The Democrats didn't "blink"; Barack Obama chose to avoid a battle he didn't think he could fight, much less win.

Agreed.

[Fragile Bird]

24 minutes ago, DMC said:

In absolutely shocking news, Trump to pardon Michael Flynn:

Oh, also, as a reminder - Flynn's lawyer is Sidney Powell.

I gather that one of the restrictions on the power of the president to pardon someone is that he can’t grant a pardon to cover up wrongdoing of his own. So if Flynn was up to something illegal on behalf of Trump, a pardon might be invalid.

Things may get interesting after Inauguration Day. 

[Martell Spy]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

Every time he gets another vote it's a new record.  

Never got into it.

Agreed.

Every time he lives a year as President and it's a new record.

Biden keeps the peace with first Cabinet picks
The former veep hasn’t sparked any bitter fights with the left. But he hasn’t given progressives any major wins either.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/24/biden-cabinet-picks-progressives-440463

Quote

 

Moving forward, progressives’ major focus is on excluding Democrats who favor austere governing from Biden’s team. In recent days, progressive lawmakers and strategists have launched petitions and tweeted their opposition to some Obama-era carryovers. For instance, they are trying to keep centrist former Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel and “deficit hawk” Bruce Reed away from the Biden White House, particularly in top spots such as Transportation secretary and the head of the Office of Management and Budget.

Progressives also oppose Mike Morell, who has defended drone strikes, for CIA director and BlackRock managing director Brian Deese for the National Economic Council. Jennifer Epps-Addison, president of the left-wing Center for Popular Democracy, which endorsed Sanders in the primary, said the appointments of Deese or Reed would “feel like a bridge really far away from bringing these different factions within the party together.”

Similarly, Schatz said, a Reed appointment is “worth watching,” but he didn’t want to “assume” that, because Reed was a key presence in a fiscal reform commission derided by progressives under former President Barack Obama, “his views are locked and that he's gonna work with Third Way and cut spending.”

 

 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Fragile Bird said:

I gather that one of the restrictions on the power of the president to pardon someone is that he can’t grant a pardon to cover up wrongdoing of his own. So if Flynn was up to something illegal on behalf of Trump, a pardon might be invalid.

Nope, unfortunately that's not true.  Certainly wasn't with Bush I's Iran-Contra pardons.

[ThinkerX]

still waiting for Trump to pardon himself for all past, present, future, federal, and state offences.  yes, even this SC would (maybe?) reject such an effort, but this is Trump after all...

[Mindwalker]

He can step down 5 minutes before midnight on Jan 19 and have flyboy pardon him.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Mindwalker said:

He can step down 5 minutes before midnight on Jan 19 and have flyboy pardon him.

I know a lot of y'all have mentioned this, but I've yet to hear a valid reason why Pence would do this.  One obvious argument would be it endears him to Trumpists, but I think it more just makes him look like Trump's..ya know.  Even to Trumpists.

[Mindwalker]

 

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

I know a lot of y'all have mentioned this, but I've yet to hear a valid reason why Pence would do this.  One obvious argument would be it endears him to Trumpists, but I think it more just makes him look like Trump's..ya know.  Even to Trumpists.

I hope you're right.

I'd rather bet on Trump's pride (his narcissistic ego wouldn't allow him to step down even in this situation) than on Pence's, though.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I am just so sick of my “liberal friends” who do not live in GA telling me how to vote in GA.

I now really have empathy for all of my friends in Ohio and Florida with people telling them how to vote.

I’m not sure on Ossoff, but he’s better than Perdue; and I fucking loathe Kelly Loeffler (tone-deaf on civil rights, cozied up to QAnon) so I’ll even vote for a “reverend” (aka preacher) over Kelly.

BUT DO NOT FUCKING PREACH AT ME FROM OUT OF STATE ON FB.

What if I sermonize? 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Mindwalker said:

I'd rather bet on Trump's pride (his narcissistic ego wouldn't allow him to step down even in this situation) than on Pence's, though.

I agree that Trump's ego is probably too big to step down, but I also think it goes against Pence's MO - he's always been rational and cautious as a political actor and this would be..incredibly not.  Plus he definitely wants to run in four years himself, so why in the hell would he help Trump out like that?

11 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I’m not sure on Ossoff, but he’s better than Perdue; and I fucking loathe Kelly Loeffler (tone-deaf on civil rights, cozied up to QAnon) so I’ll even vote for a “reverend” (aka preacher) over Kelly.

I can see how Ossoff could rub people the wrong way - that's a large part of why I think he's the weaker candidate - but what do you have against Warnock?  Just because he's a preacher man?

[Fragile Bird]

53 minutes ago, DMC said:

Nope, unfortunately that's not true.  Certainly wasn't with Bush I's Iran-Contra pardons.

I see I should have been more specific. He can’t pardon to prevent impeachment, and I have heard arguments that Flynn, who was cooperating with the Justice Department and then all of a sudden stopped cooperating, would have revealed evidence that would have led to Trump’s impeachment. That makes sense, doesn’t it?

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

That makes sense, doesn’t it?

First of all, let's be clear that that caveat has never been settled by the courts (to my knowledge) so it's very much an open question - even more so than a president pardoning himself. 

Second, no, it doesn't really make sense.  How Hamilton described that provision in Federalist 69 is if the person he was pardoning was under impeachment.  Obviously, Flynn has never been impeached.  Now, you could argue Flynn played a role in Trump's impeachment - but that's pretty weak considering his impeachment was spurred by and largely focused on events that happened long long after Flynn was fired.  Further, Trump's impeachment itself obviously was done away with when the Senate refused to convict.  That would seem to mean, to me, that it no longer applies based on Hamilton's rationale here:

Quote

A President of the Union, on the other hand, though he may even pardon treason, when prosecuted in the ordinary course of law, could shelter no offender, in any degree, from the effects of impeachment and conviction.

Unless the House started impeachment proceedings again, the effects of Trump's impeachment were resolved with the Senate vote.

[DMC]

10 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

I don’t like voting for “preachers” or “doctors”.

You must be a rabid Anti-Dentite as well.

In all seriousness, I don't think it's fair to dismiss Warnock just because he's a pastor.  He's been heavily involved in Georgian politics for the past decade.  Really I don't get judging candidates just by their profession - as opposed to their actual experience - at all.  A lot of lawyers don't know jack shit about politics or even how to actually govern but people just assume they do.