Questions Concerning Wyman Manderly

[Lord Varys]

Chances are pretty good that Wyman won't survive his wound. The Freys are known for dipping their weapons in shit, after all.

On 1/11/2021 at 10:17 PM, James Steller said:

I don't think Wyman is going to be leaving Winterfell with his troops, and I'm personally of the opinion that the Manderly levies are going to be caught in the middle of everything that Stannis has planned. He has no reason to spare the Manderly forces, since he thinks they've sided with the Boltons and executed Davos. He won't save them, and they'll have no idea what to expect. Whatever fallout happens between Wyman and Stannis depends.

Of course, Stannis would consider the Manderlys his enemies ... but they won't attack him, don't have to attack him. They are on their own now, being led by whatever commanders Lord Wyman appointed to lead them. And keep in mind that Wyman brought no hostages and came only with a pretty small force to Winterfell. Those men are likely handpicked to follow what orders they are given without question ... and men who won't mind dying doing their duty.

In fact, if you think about it, chances are pretty high that the Manderlys turn their cloaks immediately after they left Winterfell and take Hosteen and his Freys in the rear. And if they don't do that, they might prepare themselves to attack the Freys from behind when they are about to attack Stannis' forces.

It shouldn't be that hard to make it clear that the Manderlys are not on the side of the Boltons when battle is joined.

On 1/11/2021 at 11:19 PM, Canon Claude said:

Who says Wyman couldn’t delegate? I’m sure there’s gotta be at least one person whom he can absolutely trust. Maybe Marlon Manderly came along to Winterfell, or maybe Robert Glover is there in disguise.

Pretty sure it will turn out that Robett Glover is with Davos right now.

On 1/12/2021 at 12:04 AM, The Young Maester said:

Wyman probably confided with wylis on his plans for house Manderly. If Wyman dies, he will have his son lead the Manderly forces to sit rickon on winterfell with wylis as regent. And probably married to a Manderly daughter.

Wylis and Wynafryd Manderly would be the ones to implement whatever plans for the future Lord Wyman made. Wylla Manderly is out of the picture, she is too young and wasn't told what was going on. But Wynafryd knows, Wyman confirmed that.

On 1/12/2021 at 1:36 AM, Curled Finger said:

I like this, Floki.  We do know Wyman has been stabbed, but we don't know the extent of the injury.   We do know that Roose noted Manderly didn't bring any hostages to the wedding.  I'm leaning toward some sort of Roose elimination move with so many witnesses gone.  Roose is walking a very thin rope.  He can't kill Manderly outright, so he will do it sneaky like.  He makes nicer with the Freys and gets rid of a major political obstacle.  There is no downside to this for Roose.  I think Manderly is already dead.  But I am keeping my eyes on his badass green haired grand daughter.  

Roose and Ramsay might not really be a in position to something like that now. After all, they lost their Stark girl. This is going to take away all legitimacy they had in the eyes of the Northmen at Winterfell who were (sort of) willing to work with them. Without a Stark they have nothing. The way things go Wyman might be the one putting down Roose and Ramsay and hand the castle to Stannis.

Even the Dustin and Ryswell men might not be willing to fight and die for a Bolton who lacks a Stark wife.

And if Theon is right and Ramsay will be sent out with another army after the Freys and Manderlys then Roose has to part with some of his Dreadfort men. That really could tip the scales in Winterfell ... especially when reports come in indicating that they failed to crush Stannis. Or that they faced major defections.

[Mad King Bolton]

Manderly preserved and released Davos privately to bring back Rickon.  He seems to have assumed he won't survive the trip to Winterfell to see Davos succeed or fail, so since his only loyalty is to the Starks, he will see through at the very least his plan to pave the way for Rickon to successfully take back Winterfell. We'd have to assume he left instructions and his wishes for his son back at White Harbor, and so we should also assume that he has some hand in any mischief going on at Winterfell to fuck with the Boltons and any supporters (especially the Freys).  That would mean having some of his top men in the know so that in the likelihood of his death by either the Freys or Boltons for his actions, the rest of his men would be making sure the Bolton's fail or suffer.  

My opinion would be that with his men sent out of Winterfell, Wyman would be staying behind and whether killed or not, he would have his men not necessarily go over to Stannis directly, as Stannis might lose and then the Manderlys lose, but out in the snow he could make sure that the Frey's don't come back (or try), he could make sure Stannis gets provisioned, and/or, he could help Stannis gain entry to Winterfell.  

As stated, Wyman is smart enough to know that Stannis was in the North before he left White Harbor and that he could encounter Stannis at some point.  He would know that Stannis thinks he executed Davos, so I image that he would have some token or  way besides just words that he spared Davos.  Stannis considered Robb a traitor and usurper, but I believe acknowledged that the Starks belong in Winterfell, so restoring Rickon to Winterfell as a Lord would be in Stannis' interest. I think it all lines up pretty well for Wyman in his last actions, to support Stannis as best he can.

[SkagosHead]

As much as I love Wyman and would like him to sit on Ramsay, I am not sure his grand plan will come to fruition. We know Roose suspects him and Roose is a very cautious man. Wouldn't surprise me if he's been watching Wyman and has some kind of scheme to stop Wyman's kamikaze mission (or whatever else he has in mind), but I really hope I'm wrong. Shout out to the best line in the series:

Hosteen: We know the man who did this. Killed this boy and all the rest. Not by his own hand, no. He is too fat and craven to do his own killing. But by his word. Do you deny it?
Wyman: I confess ... I confess that I know little of this poor boy. Lord Ramsay's squire, was he not? How old was the lad?
Hosteen: Nine, on his last nameday.
Wyman: So young. Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey.

[saltedmalted]

On 1/31/2021 at 4:01 AM, Lord Varys said:

Roose and Ramsay might not really be a in position to something like that now. After all, they lost their Stark girl. This is going to take away all legitimacy they had in the eyes of the Northmen at Winterfell who were (sort of) willing to work with them

They don't have any legitimacy with "Arya Stark" in their clutches. The Boltons have managed to suvive so far due to hostages and a fractured Northern leadership.

If Stannis or Wyman can alter things then Bolton is cooked. He had no realistic way of ruling the place over the long run.

[Lord Varys]

5 hours ago, saltedmalted said:

They don't have any legitimacy with "Arya Stark" in their clutches. The Boltons have managed to suvive so far due to hostages and a fractured Northern leadership.

If Stannis or Wyman can alter things then Bolton is cooked. He had no realistic way of ruling the place over the long run.

It is made very clear that 'Arya' gave the Boltons a considerable advantage - there are Northmen at Winterfell only because Arya is there, and such Northmen are so pissed about how Ramsay treats his bride that Barbrey Dustin gets concerned and complains to Roose about this, and Wyman Manderly makes it clear to Davos that they need a male Stark pretender to counter the Bolton claim. That's why he has him searching of Rickon. That's not done out of the goodness of his heart but because he needs a pawn he can prop up against 'Arya'.

Roose and Ramsay losing their Stark erodes their power base and may result in a mass defection to Stannis' side ... or simply in a refusal to fight against Stannis if they assume 'Arya Stark' is now with him.

As for nothern hostages - the only one of note remaining is Harrion Karstark and he didn't really stop Arnolf from doing his best to goad the Lannisters into killing him. There are no reports about any other hostages.

[Canon Claude]

5 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

 

As for nothern hostages - the only one of note remaining is Harrion Karstark and he didn't really stop Arnolf from doing his best to goad the Lannisters into killing him. There are no reports about any other hostages.

Greatjon?

[Lord Varys]

13 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

Greatjon?

Not important in that context because half the Umbers did side with Stannis ... and the Greatjon yet lives.

[Canon Claude]

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Not important in that context because half the Umbers did side with Stannis ... and the Greatjon yet lives.

They haven’t officially declared for him. Hother Umber is publicly supporting Roose. Nobody actually knows that Mors is outside Winterfell, they all thought it was Stannis. Plus they didn’t know Mors was digging pits because Aenys was killed as soon as he rode out.

Officially, the Umbers are only playing ball because of Greatjon’s captivity. Even Barbrey says it to the Freys’ faces.

[Lord Varys]

7 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

They haven’t officially declared for him. Hother Umber is publicly supporting Roose. Nobody actually knows that Mors is outside Winterfell, they all thought it was Stannis. Plus they didn’t know Mors was digging pits because Aenys was killed as soon as he rode out.

Officially, the Umbers are only playing ball because of Greatjon’s captivity. Even Barbrey says it to the Freys’ faces.

It is public knowledge that Hother joined Roose and Mors Stannis. They even demanded from each side to pardon the other and that Umber troops be not forced to fight directly against each other.

Mors and his guys just don't find Stannis in his village. They march to Winterfell because they know Stannis is going there, too, but coming from a different direction they miss him.

The Winterfell people in ADwD of course think Stannis is out there because they also don't know where Stannis is exactly until letters from the treasonous maester arrive.

This kind of approach shows that even with your lord a hostage you can go to considerable lengths if you want to. After all, if they executed the Greatjon because of Mors' decision all Umbers are likely to join Stannis. Meaning you can continue to fight against your enemy even if they have hostages.

That's also shown historically with Aegon II and Aegon III ... or just with Robb continuing his war with Sansa as hostage and Tywin continuing the war with Jaime and other Lannisters as hostages.

[The Young Maester]

It is in the fat lords interest to dethrone the Boltons. Yes white harbour are ultra stark man and would loyally welcome them back, but wyman also knows that a Bolton ruled north is not very good for white harbour.

Once roose secures his hold on the north he will begin to undermine white harbour as much as possible without causing rebellion. White harbour will put the dreadfort to shame if you consider how much wealth and men they both have. Under the starks, white harbour can carry on being powerful but under Bolton that is not possible. Starks had the entire north backing them, and houses like umber, karstark, and Bolton probably arent very fond of the southern upstart seven worshiping manderlys.

However with Bolton in winterfell, people will be more likely to side with white harbour to undermine the Bolton rule.

Roose already demanded that wyman relinquish his claim to hornwood. Manderly has had lots of interest on those lands and he would like them under his control or under a Manderly influenced house.

[Aebram]

16 hours ago, SkagosHead said:

Wyman: So young. Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived he would have grown up to be a Frey.

Yep, one of my favorite moments in the story. Always gives me a chuckle when I reread it