Do You see Tyrion Lannister as an overall good or bad character?

[Nathan Stark]

15 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Tywin taught his kids the most vulnerable part of a person. You shouldn't leave somebody's personal stuff out in the open. It's personal for a reason. What Shae did was strike right at that. And you guys say that Shae screwed Tyrion over because she wants to get higher. Looking at Westerosi society do you HONESTLY think that this is POSSIBLE? Tyrion was going to make her as high a marriage as she could've gotten, but she decided to pee all over it. Then she screws his dad for good measure.

This is the old tried and true "victim A was no angel" argument. But Shae's motives, decisions and actions are not the issue. Tyrion's are. He committed murder, which is wrong both in his universe and in ours.

[Jaenara Belarys]

2 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

This is the old tried and true "victim A was no angel" argument.

That's why I'm using it. 

 

3 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

But Shae's motives, decisions and actions are not the issue. Tyrion's are.

Shae's motives, decisions and actions are connected to Tyrion. Don't act like they aren't. 

[Nathan Stark]

4 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

That's why I'm using it. 

 

Shae's motives, decisions and actions are connected to Tyrion. Don't act like they aren't. 

Shae's actions and motives are beside the point. They don't justify her murder.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

3 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

What does this have to do with the topic of the thread? Just asking.

I’m postulating Tyrion gang raped Tysha, Lollys, and Sansa. How could Tyrion rape Sansa on the night of Blackwater Burning you may ask? There’s the rub. 
 

[Jaenara Belarys]

4 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

I’m postulating Tyrion gang raped Tysha, Lollys, and Sansa. How could Tyrion rape Sansa on the night of Blackwater Burning you may ask? There’s the rub. 

How can he do that to TYSHA?! He doesn't know where Tysha is! Lollys? Really? Sansa, I think would remember if that freaking happened! Tyrion's not magic he can't be in two places at once. He was on the Bridge of Ships! Your theory is disproven by the book POVs!

[Jaenara Belarys]

8 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Shae's actions and motives are beside the point

Shae's actions and motives is most certainly part of the point. Shae screwed Tyrion over, was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and screwed Tywin. That's why Tyrion killed her.

[Nathan Stark]

5 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Shae's actions and motives is most certainly part of the point. Shae screwed Tyrion over, was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and screwed Tywin. That's why Tyrion killed her.

Shae's actions and motives don't give Tyrion the right to murder her. That's the point.

[CamiloRP]

45 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Tywin taught his kids the most vulnerable part of a person. You shouldn't leave somebody's personal stuff out in the open. It's personal for a reason. What Shae did was strike right at that. And you guys say that Shae screwed Tyrion over because she wants to get higher. Looking at Westerosi society do you HONESTLY think that this is POSSIBLE? Tyrion was going to make her as high a marriage as she could've gotten, but she decided to pee all over it.

Imagine you are a whore, a client of yours is arrested and you are given two options. One, you say nothing about them and are tortured until you testify saying anything they ask of you. Two, you testify at once and are rewarded handsomely. What do you do?

99,9% of the people would act in the exact smae way as Shae did.

 

Tyrion is getting capped whatever she does. He can't give her any marriage whatsoever.

 

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Then she screws his dad for good measure.

He's imprisoned, soon to die, he will never find out. She's a whore and Tywin a paying customer. She probably needs the money. She did nothing wrong.

 

And even still, even if they were in a loving relationship and she's an evil bitch who hurt him because she felt like it, which is far from the truth, but even still, murdering her is an evil act kid. There's not many people more deranged and dangerous than those capable of murdering people they claim to love.

[CamiloRP]

14 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Shae's actions and motives is most certainly part of the point. Shae screwed Tyrion over, was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and screwed Tywin. That's why Tyrion killed her.

So, do you think that real life men who murder their exes because they feel wronged by them are justified?

[Jaenara Belarys]

Where do you get that from? I'm talking about this case, and this case only.  Said real life men should burn in hell.

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

29 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

How can he do that to TYSHA?! He doesn't know where Tysha is! Lollys? Really? Sansa, I think would remember if that freaking happened! Tyrion's not magic he can't be in two places at once. He was on the Bridge of Ships! Your theory is disproven by the book POVs!

Oh, yes. He died on top of me. In me, if truth be told. You do know what goes on in a marriage bed, I hope?"

She thought of Tyrion, and of the Hound and how he'd kissed her, and gave a nod. "That must have been dreadful, my lady. Him dying. There, I mean, whilst . . . whilst he was . . ."

Sansa may have no idea of what sexual intercourse is. 
Sansa is terrified and held at knife point. She can’t think of the words to the love song Jonquil. She sings Mother.

Tyrion may not be magical. We have seen characters in places their bodies are not. Warging. Reread Tyrion’s Battle of Blackwater. Ask yourself where does Tyrion’s strength come from to cut down knights in a single blow. Then read the Hound drunk and sleepy in Sansa bedroom.

[Nathan Stark]

4 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

Where do you get that from? I'm talking about this case, and this case only.  Said real life men should burn in hell.

But why should Tyrion be any different? Murder is just as wrong in his fictional world as it is in ours. It isn't as if he had to go into the Tower of the Hand at all. Even Varys cautioned against it, very weakly and not at all suspiciously benifitting from Tyrion's actions.

[Nathan Stark]

2 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Oh, yes. He died on top of me. In me, if truth be told. You do know what goes on in a marriage bed, I hope?"

She thought of Tyrion, and of the Hound and how he'd kissed her, and gave a nod. "That must have been dreadful, my lady. Him dying. There, I mean, whilst . . . whilst he was . . ."
Sansa is terrified and held at knife point. She can’t think of the words to the love song Jonquil. She sings Mother.

Tyrion may not be magical. We have seen characters in places their bodies are not. Warging. Reread Tyrion’s Battle of Blackwater. Ask yourself where does Tyrion’s strength come from to cut down knights in a single blow. Then read the Hound drunk and sleepy in Sansa bedroom.

Nah. Tyrion isn't warging anybody. The Hound is a known alcholic; he's drunk or asking for wine practically every time we see him. Alcholism is a trait shared by many people. And just being a dwarf doesn't mean you don't have some upper-body strength.

[CamiloRP]

Just now, Jaenara Belarys said:

Where do you get that from? I'm talking about this case, and this case only.  Said real life men should burn in hell.

What's the difference?

[SeanF]

55 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

This is the old tried and true "victim A was no angel" argument. But Shae's motives, decisions and actions are not the issue. Tyrion's are. He committed murder, which is wrong both in his universe and in ours.

Old tropes die hard.  "She was asking for it."  "She provoked me."  "She was a whore, not a decent woman".

300 years before the events of this series, Queen Rhaenys passed a law against domestic violence.

[Jaenara Belarys]

She technically didn't do that. Read it over again. A dead lady's brothers brought the husband before Queen Rhaenys. He said that it was within his rights to beat his wife (which is wrong, through and through) because he had caught her in bed with another man. He produced the rod he used, but when Rhaenys asked him how many times he hit her he couldn't answer the question. The brothers insisted it was 100 times. Her decision was that since the gods had made women to be subservient ( which is wrong) and loyal to their husbands. She says that the person should only be struck 6 times, not seven since the seventh would be for the Stranger. Therefore the punishment for the husband was 94 blows. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

36 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Sansa may have no idea of what sexual intercourse is. 

Her wedding night and other times show that she knows exactly what it is. Sansa is courteous and doesn't want to be rude, so that's why she's hesitant to say that Myranda and the guy were screwing.

36 minutes ago, Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe said:

Ask yourself where does Tyrion’s strength come from to cut down knights in a single blow.

The weight of the axe. He's slashing down, so he has gravity on his side. He's not magical, and neither is the Hound.

 

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

23 minutes ago, Nathan Stark said:

Nah. Tyrion isn't warging anybody. The Hound is a known alcholic; he's drunk or asking for wine practically every time we see him. Alcholism is a trait shared by many people. And just being a dwarf doesn't mean you don't have some upper-body strength.

Outside, a swirling lance of jade light spit at the stars, filling the room with green glare. She saw him for a moment, all black and green, the blood on his face dark as tar, his eyes glowing like a dog's in the sudden glare. Then the light faded and he was only a hulking darkness in a stained white cloak.

I’m just looking at any possibility to explain this moment. One idea is Tyrion. 

[Jaenara Belarys]

The green is the wildfire, the black is the darkness. Tyrion doesn't wear a freaking KG cloak. You know that. 

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

3 minutes ago, Jaenara Belarys said:

The green is the wildfire, the black is the darkness. Tyrion doesn't wear a freaking KG cloak. You know that. 

I should have said encounter not moment. It is commonly referred to as Unkiss. 
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/UnKiss 

There is a strong sense of duality with Tyrion. Half man Half something else. One black eye one green. Maybe a good side and a bad or two souls in one body. I’m probably wrong but I like to look deeper.