DCEU: Enter the Snyderverse

[Heartofice]

26 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Joker made one of the greatest villains ever into an incel hero, it can fuck right off.

Well its a movie that was portrayed as something by the media, long before it came out, and then when it turned out to not be that, they didn't know what to do with it.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

43 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Joker made one of the greatest villains ever into an incel hero, it can fuck right off.

Except it didn't.

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

14 hours ago, Heartofice said:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2021/05/06/fear-for-a-black-superman/


I think this is really what it is about, using diversity as a band aid to cover for the fact you are making a bad movie isn't going to work, and audiences don't care. Whether this movie will feel 'organic' or not will probably come down to whether they want to tell a unique story using Superman, or whether they just want to push some politics at people and make them feel guilty (or make "white men angry") So far it looks like it is falling mainly on the latter side.

There is no reason you can't tell different, unique stories using recognisable DC characters. Joker is a great example of a one off story that has it's own vision but there is little outcry that there are 2 versions of the Joker. Everyone seemed to get that it was existing i a different universe. But the reason that movie worked was because it did feel like it was doing something interesting with the character (Though you could say all they did was make Taxi Driver with the Joker)

How Scott Mendelson still has a job, I'll never know.

Quote

After 40 years of disappointing/underwhelming Superman movies (Superman II, the last unmitigated success, opened in June of 1981), Warner Bros. and D.C. Films are still trying to succeed Superman Returns and Man of Steel failed.

Is he missing some punctuation here? I'm not getting what he's saying. Is he seriously lumping MoS and Superman Returns together in terms of success?

Chris Hemsworth: Snow White and the Huntsman came close to doing Marvel Phase 1 money, Rush was critical and commercial success and Extraction is the most popular title in the history of Netflix, so his non-MCU track record isn't as grim as Mr. Mendelson suggests. 

And MIB International isn't really more diverse than the original MiB films, with the exception of making a female agent one of the leads.  Maybe the problem is that the original MiB films owed their success as much to the on-screen chemistry and performances of Jones and Smith as it did to the IP. Same for Ghost Busters with Ackroid, Murray, and Ramis. Which means, you can't just plug-in new pieces, regardless of how they're shaped, and get the same result.

He also fails to consider the extent to which the MCU has been crowding out everything else. Into the Spider Verse is possibly the best Spider-Man film; much better than Far From Home IMO. Alita: Battle Angel is remarkably similar to Captain Marvel and much better IMO. The two Marvel movies grossed over a billion, the other two didn't even do half that.

Edit: Jesus what a rambling weird article. Was he drunk when he wrote it?

Quote

The casting of Jason Momoa as Aquaman would have made less of an impact had it been first or second Aquaman reboot following ones starring, offhand, Matt Damon in 2000 and/or Channing Tatum as Arthur Curry in 2007

Really?

One of the interesting things about the casting of Mamoa was the total lack of comment about casting a pacific islander in the role of a character typically portrayed as a blonde, blue eyed, white guy.

I remember quite a few American critics being pretty salty toward it. One critic suggested it needed to change release dates to get away from Spider-Man. At least one mocked what they called Snyder's "metal dude bro" concept of aquaman, and another laughingly claimed that Mary Poppins was going to kick Aquaman's ass at the box office. A few pointed out that Aquaman's success was mainly due to foreign box office; so, you know, it's their fault. 

[Heartofice]

29 minutes ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

And MIB International isn't really more diverse than the original MiB films, with the exception of making a female agent one of the leads.  Maybe the problem is that the original MiB films owed their success as much to the on-screen chemistry and performances of Jones and Smith as it did to the IP. Same for Ghost Busters with Ackroid, Murray, and Ramis. Which means, you can't just plug-in new pieces, regardless of how they're shaped, and get the same result.

I think the point is that studios appear to be trying to plug in 'diversity' pieces to get movies made, movies for which there doesn't appear to be any demand. I'm imagining the Charlies Angels pitch meeting 'Hey we are going to make a Charlies Angels for a new generation, girl power yeah?', except there was no demand, the movie was horrible. Was there demand for more Men in Black movies? Maybe but as you say the selling point was always Will Smith, adding more diversity or making one of the characters female doesn't change the fact that people weren't interested

[Deadlines? What Deadlines?]

14 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I think the point is that studios appear to be trying to plug in 'diversity' pieces to get movies made, movies for which there doesn't appear to be any demand. I'm imagining the Charlies Angels pitch meeting 'Hey we are going to make a Charlies Angels for a new generation, girl power yeah?', except there was no demand, the movie was horrible. Was there demand for more Men in Black movies? Maybe but as you say the selling point was always Will Smith, adding more diversity or making one of the characters female doesn't change the fact that people weren't interested

That's what I hear. I'm tempted to watch it.

I did see MiB: International. It played like a big budget fan film. It just didn't have the charm the other films had. The jokes were just a little flatter, the comedic timing wasn't there, it just failed to pull me in the way the other films did. I'll still watch MiB if it's on TV and I'm channel surfing and the 3rd film was shockingly good. 

[DMC]

2 hours ago, Heartofice said:

There is no reason you can't tell different, unique stories using recognisable DC characters.

Sure!  And there's no reason you can't tell different, unique stories using recognizable DC characters..and also making them black.  Why, exactly, are you complaining about that as a premise?

[Heartofice]

18 minutes ago, DMC said:

Sure!  And there's no reason you can't tell different, unique stories using recognizable DC characters..and also making them black.  Why, exactly, are you complaining about that as a premise?

Am I complaining about that? I’m saying that if the goal is to make a political point rather than make a story everyone can enjoy then I’m sure that will not go down as well as the makers expect. 

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Am I complaining about that? I’m saying that if the goal is to make a political point rather than make a story everyone can enjoy then I’m sure that will not go down as well as the makers expect. 

Why does making Superman black have to be more of a "political point" than him being white?  Or anything else?  Isn't the fact he's an immigrant alien from a rural area called "Smallville" already wading into "identity politics?"

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, DMC said:

Why does making Superman black have to be more of a "political point" than him being white?  Or anything else?  Isn't the fact he's an immigrant alien from a rural area called "Smallville" already wading into "identity politics?"

It doesn’t have to be, but it seem pretty clear that it’s going to be. Look who they got to write it, and they went out of their way to hire that specific writer. So far everything about this movie is shouting politics. 

[DMC]

Just now, Heartofice said:

It doesn’t have to be, but it seem pretty clear that it’s going to be. Look who they got to write it, and they went out of their way to hire that specific writer. So far everything about this movie is shouting politics. 

I agree, usually when people hire someone to write something, they "go out of their way to hire that specific writer."  So now it's because Ta-Nehisi Coates is writing it.  And he's all political.  As opposed to other writers who aren't political.  And Joker, apparently, is an example of something DC did that wasn't political.  Or at least something that you don't have a problem with being somewhat political.  Seems to me your problem isn't about something being political, it's about something being political in a way you don't like.

[Heartofice]

Just now, DMC said:

I agree, usually when people hire someone to write something, they "go out of their way to hire that specific writer."  So now it's because Ta-Nehisi Coates is writing it.  And he's all political.  As opposed to other writers who aren't political.  And Joker, apparently, is an example of something DC did that wasn't political.  Or at least something that you don't have a problem with being somewhat political.  Seems to me your problem isn't about something being political, it's about something being political in a way you don't like.

Ok but you are aware of Coates and his writing history yeah? I’m not pulling this stuff out of my ass.

[DMC]

Just now, Heartofice said:

Ok but you are aware of Coates and his writing history yeah? I’m not pulling this stuff out of my ass.

I'm aware he's published/publicized many political opinions that you disagree with, yes.

[Relic]

8 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm aware he's published/publicized many political opinions that you disagree with, yes.

Apparently HoI is now an expert on Coates. Two weeks ago he was saying he knew nothing about the guy. 

[Relic]

6 hours ago, Deadlines? What Deadlines? said:

On the other hand, you have a really good superman in Henry Cavill

I've no idea why anyone thinks this. Cavill is one of the worst actors in these big budget superhero roles. He's wooden, has zero emotional range, and basically seems like he learned how to act while filming porn. 

[Heartofice]

30 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm aware he's published/publicized many political opinions that you disagree with, yes.

Well swerved sir, well swerved.

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Well swerved sir, well swerved.

...is this how the English surrender nowadays?

[Heartofice]

14 minutes ago, DMC said:

...is this how the English surrender nowadays?

It’s how they acknowledge someone deftly dodging a point 

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It’s how they acknowledge someone deftly dodging a point 

Your point that you don't like the idea of a black Superman because it's going to be written by a black guy that's voiced political opinions you disagree with?  Yeah I think I get your point just fine.

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

Your point that you don't like the idea of a black Superman because it's going to be written by a black guy that's voiced political opinions you disagree with?  Yeah I think I get your point just fine.

Do you think you are being honest here? What’s the point of this conversation if this is the level you are at 

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Do you think you are being honest here? What’s the point of this conversation if this is the level you are at 

Yes I'm being honest.  Your basis for dismissing even the premise of a black Superman is because it's going to be written by a black guy that voices political opinions you disagree with.  That's asked and answered.  If you have any other basis, or want to argue why that is, go ahead.