Apoplexy Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 28 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said: The other sword was inherited by Tommen, and is still in King's Landing. I had meant eventually. I see jaime acquiring that sword eventually. I think those were the swords in Jaime's weirwood stump dream. 33 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said: Even if Jaime does a physical heroic act it might not be valor. It could perhaps be sacrifice or perhaps comforting someone? Sacrifice is a possibility, but comforting someone usually does not end up in history books. 35 minutes ago, norwaywolf123 said: Why would Jaime be dismissed from the Kingsguard, and who would push for the outcome? If Jaime is not dismissed, the kingsguard that he is part of might be dissolved following Aegon conquest. Cersei might get Tommen to dismiss Jaime so she can put one of her cronies in his place. She might claim he is presumed dead when he 'disappears' in the riverlands. And Aegon has already started appointing people to his KG (Rolly duckfield) so I think Aegon plans to keep the tradition going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 17 hours ago, Apoplexy said: Cersei might get Tommen to dismiss Jaime so she can put one of her cronies in his place. She might claim he is presumed dead when he 'disappears' in the riverlands. Tywin would do another flip in his grave if it turned out to be that easy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 44 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: Tywin would do another flip in his grave if it turned out to be that easy! Tywin just didn't think to take the path of least resistance! In all seriousness, my thoughts about Jaime being dismissed from the KG comes from what happened in the show. And Cersei is known to do stupid things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 On 1/9/2022 at 1:15 AM, Apoplexy said: Sacrifice is a possibility, but comforting someone usually does not end up in history books. While comforting somneone is not likely to end up in the history books, it could play a important role in the story. Which would be accessible for readers. Even if it remains unknown in Westerosi history books. On 1/9/2022 at 1:15 AM, Apoplexy said: Cersei might get Tommen to dismiss Jaime so she can put one of her cronies in his place. She might claim he is presumed dead when he 'disappears' in the riverlands. And Aegon has already started appointing people to his KG (Rolly duckfield) so I think Aegon plans to keep the tradition going. Regarding Aegon, I meant that Jaime could lose his place as a kingsguard due to Tommen's kingsguard being dissolved, while not being taken into Aegon's. Should Jaime chose to stay a kingsguard. Then he would ba a kingsguard without a king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 4 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said: While comforting somneone is not likely to end up in the history books, it could play a important role in the story. Which would be accessible for readers. Even if it remains unknown in Westerosi history books. Do you have any such scenario in mind? Whom would Jaime comfort? 4 hours ago, norwaywolf123 said: Regarding Aegon, I meant that Jaime could lose his place as a kingsguard due to Tommen's kingsguard being dissolved, while not being taken into Aegon's. Should Jaime chose to stay a kingsguard. Then he would ba a kingsguard without a king. Good point. Thats one way to be released from the KG, the king being dead and usurped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaywolf123 Posted January 11, 2022 Share Posted January 11, 2022 19 hours ago, Apoplexy said: Do you have any such scenario in mind? Whom would Jaime comfort? I mostly tried to add more scenarios for what Jaime could do. Comforting someone could play a big role in that persons life. Maybe it does not have to be comforting, but could be anything that contributes to shape someone. Especially how someone views themselves, and what path foreward in life that person chose. I don't have any well thought suggestion for whom Jaime could comfort. Perhaps it could be Lancel? Jaime could let Lancel learn from his mistakes. Even though it now appears that Jaime is reflecting on his past choices as a result of Lancel's current ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 On 1/11/2022 at 5:00 PM, norwaywolf123 said: I mostly tried to add more scenarios for what Jaime could do. Comforting someone could play a big role in that persons life. Maybe it does not have to be comforting, but could be anything that contributes to shape someone. Especially how someone views themselves, and what path foreward in life that person chose. I don't have any well thought suggestion for whom Jaime could comfort. Perhaps it could be Lancel? Jaime could let Lancel learn from his mistakes. Even though it now appears that Jaime is reflecting on his past choices as a result of Lancel's current ones. Lancel seems much too fanatical to be influenced by Jaime. Perhaps it could be Gendry? Jaime has already been a mentor of sorts to Loras. He has been much kinder to Loras than Barristan had been to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 22 hours ago, Apoplexy said: Jaime has already been a mentor of sorts to Loras. He has been much kinder to Loras than Barristan had been to him. Loras didn't gave him any reasons...In fact Loras has been the best KG since Barristan. Jaime gave Barristan more then enough reasons for the treatment he received, in fact I would argue that Barristan was pretty light on him, even the writing on the white book is very neutral and straight to the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 On 1/4/2022 at 9:30 AM, norwaywolf123 said: Jaime does not only have obligations towards Catelyn due to his promise. He also has obligations towards House Lannister, and the Westerlands. This is a central element of Jaime's story. In Jaime's position it is not easy to follow every vow, or even possible, because many of them contradict other vows. He can't use such a excuse, he already knew about the confronting nature of his obrigations and still made the vows, and he never tried to keep them. In fact Jaime was offered a way that he could do both oaths, he could take the offer to become Hand instead of marching a army against the Tullys. Instead he did what he wanted and f any promise, vow, comprimise, obligation, honor or whaterver... Just like he swore a oath of celibacy to keep banging his sister. If such a justification was made by Barristan, someone that swore the oath with all the intentions of keeping them to a honest and kind king like Jaeharys II, but them was forced into a impossible situation into serving a a-hole like Aerys II, I could be more sympathetic. Is not the case with Jaime, he already knew the nature of Aerys, he swore the KG vows with intent of breaking them, he swore the vows to Catelyn with intend to break them, and now he keeps sulking that people throw into his face his lack of honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said: Loras didn't gave him any reasons...In fact Loras has been the best KG since Barristan. Jaime gave Barristan more then enough reasons for the treatment he received, in fact I would argue that Barristan was pretty light on him, even the writing on the white book is very neutral and straight to the point. Loras supported a different king, killed Robar Royce and Emmon Cuy without reason, wanted Brienne captured/killed. As for Barristan, the guy cannot get his head out of his own ass. He knew how terrible Aerys was and enabled him, yet had the nerve to claim the moral highground when Jaime killed him. Seriously, this Jaime hate is tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Apoplexy said: Loras supported a different king, killed Robar Royce and Emmon Cuy without reason, wanted Brienne captured/killed. As for Barristan, the guy cannot get his head out of his own ass. He knew how terrible Aerys was and enabled him, yet had the nerve to claim the moral highground when Jaime killed him. And before Jaime even meet Loras he already had proved his loyalty by fighting in the vanguard with his brother against Stannis, saved the city and pretty much won the war at Blackwater...Loras did more for Jofrey and Tommen than any KG, with the exception of maybe Balon Swan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Just now, Arthur Peres said: And before Jaime even meet Loras he already had proved his loyalty by fighting in the vanguard with his brother against Stannis, saved the city and pretty much won the war at Blackwater...Loras did more for Jofrey and Tommen than any KG, with the exception of maybe Balon Swan. None of that negates the things Loras had done against Joffrey/the crown. I'm not arguing Loras should have been treated badly. I'm arguing Barristan was unreasonable in his dislike of Jaime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Peres Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 56 minutes ago, Apoplexy said: None of that negates the things Loras had done against Joffrey/the crown. I'm not arguing Loras should have been treated badly. I'm arguing Barristan was unreasonable in his dislike of Jaime. No. Barrista had all the reasons to opose Jaime entering the KG as well as despising him later on. First the compromise to make to become a KG is not lightly and should not be done by green boys under 16 like was the case with Jaime. Then later on Jaime went on to violate every single vow he made, including killing the King he personally swore, even then Barristan instead of execution argued for the wall, by the time Barristan is dismissed, Jaime the worst KG in history takes his place as lord commander, after attacking the hand of the king, fleeing the city, taking control of a army, breaking the kings peace, and later on the rummors (that are true by the way) of him cucking the king, and taking part in incest, ususrping the royal line and starting a war...and he walked free after all that. geez Barristan has no reason to feel disgusted by Jaime, the poor golden boy has to handle the mean look of a man old enough to be his grandfather... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoplexy Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 2 hours ago, Arthur Peres said: No. Barrista had all the reasons to opose Jaime entering the KG as well as despising him later on. First the compromise to make to become a KG is not lightly and should not be done by green boys under 16 like was the case with Jaime. Then later on Jaime went on to violate every single vow he made, including killing the King he personally swore, even then Barristan instead of execution argued for the wall, by the time Barristan is dismissed, Jaime the worst KG in history takes his place as lord commander, after attacking the hand of the king, fleeing the city, taking control of a army, breaking the kings peace, and later on the rummors (that are true by the way) of him cucking the king, and taking part in incest, ususrping the royal line and starting a war...and he walked free after all that. geez Barristan has no reason to feel disgusted by Jaime, the poor golden boy has to handle the mean look of a man old enough to be his grandfather... I am truly tired of responding to ad nauseum invectives against characters. So I'm going to say good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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