Tennis thread 10: Federer's emotional goodbye

[3CityApache]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Thought I might have jinxed Iga.

Epic match. Yeah, I was sure it was all over at 6-2, 3-0, yet Muchowa managed to stage yet another incredible come back, kudos to her, her defense was inpenetrable at times. Third set was tense as fuck, I had probably a mild imminent myocardial infarction.

And yeah, you were this close to jinxing Iga. Again!

Now what she needs is some real progress on grass. Nadal made it, so can she. Not expecting her to win Wimbledon anytime soon, but a quertarfinal or semifinal would be nice.

BTW, just read Iga is just fourth tennis player and third women in the open era, after Roger Federer, Monica Seles and Naomi Osaka, who won all four of their first grand slam finals. It's actually weird noone else from such a long list of greats as Serena, Nadal, Djokovic, Graf, Navratilova, Evert, Sampras, Borg, Connors, Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Agassi and so on, couldn't make it.

Edited June 10, 2023 by 3CityApache

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

31 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

And yeah, you were this close to jinxing Iga. Again!

Lol, I think there's been a few times where I've posted and checked out on her up a set dominating the second only to look back and be like "What happened?" But she always comes through. Her mental toughness is unquestionable and there are zero flaws in her game. Today was the rare time when you could question some of that, but when it mattered, she was locked in. 

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Now what she needs is some real progress on grass. Nadal made it, so can she. Not expecting her to win Wimbledon anytime soon, but a quertarfinal or semifinal would be nice.

I always have to ask this having only really played on hard courts myself, but does it really matter that much? I know there are differences, but a great player should overcome them and Iga is a truly great player. She's getting pretty close to the point where you'd bet on her over the field in any tournament. I thought the aforementioned Osaka was going to be that next player, but it's Iga. 

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BTW, just read Iga is just fourth tennis player and third women in the open era, after Roger Federer, Monica Seles and Naomi Osaka, who won all four of their first grand slam finals. It's actually weird noone else from such a long list of greats as Serena, Nadal, Djokovic, Graf, Navratilova, Evert, Sampras, Borg, Connors, Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Agassi and so on, couldn't make it.

I can't really speak to Seles, but Feds and Osaka did it during a time when there weren't other dominate players. Serena, Nadal and Joker all had to go through others and Joker is the curious case where he didn't really break through that early until he learned to keep his composure and became a cyborg. I expect a pretty easy win for him tomorrow and he should win Wimbledon and the US as well. I doubt anyone will ever catch the GS mark he's going to set and maybe 25, which was my guess, was selling him too short. 30 seems a bit high, but he's going to get close. 

[3CityApache]

32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I always have to ask this having only really played on hard courts myself, but does it really matter that much?

 

I had a pleasure to play on all three surfaces and from my amateur point of view the difference between clay (the surface I was raised on) and grass was huuuge. Like a completely different game actually. Most built-in behaviours just don't work, or work differently.

 

32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I can't really speak to Seles, but Feds and Osaka did it during a time when there weren't other dominate players.

Well, Seles had always had Graf, so it was an impressive achievement.

I agree Djokovic will easily win tomorrow and probably pocket at least another slam this year, but I still expect Alcaraz and few others to start pushing him out, if not this year, then the next. I could take a bet he will not reach 30.

[BigFatCoward]

1 hour ago, 3CityApache said:

 

BTW, just read Iga is just fourth tennis player and third women in the open era, after Roger Federer, Monica Seles and Naomi Osaka, who won all four of their first grand slam finals. It's actually weird noone else from such a long list of greats as Serena, Nadal, Djokovic, Graf, Navratilova, Evert, Sampras, Borg, Connors, Lendl, Edberg, Becker, Agassi and so on, couldn't make it.

All those emerged in weaker eras. Of course Djokovic wouldn't win first 4, he was competing with Fed and Nadal who were well ahead of him at that time. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, 3CityApache said:

I had a pleasure to play on all three surfaces and from my amateur point of view the difference between clay (the surface I was raised on) and grass was huuuge. Like a completely different game actually. Most built-in behaviours just don't work, or work differently.

Maybe I'm just not good enough to notice. My serve will probably always be garbage, but I have great lateral quickness and can return just about any shot I take from other shitty players. Where I grew up there are a lot of hard courts every mile or two, but to play on grass or clay cost a lot so almost all of my experience is on one surface. 

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I agree Djokovic will easily win tomorrow and probably pocket at least another slam this year, but I still expect Alcaraz and few others to start pushing him out, if not this year, then the next. I could take a bet he will not reach 30.

Alcaraz getting injured soured the match and he was turning in his favor at the time, but I still think Joker would have won. He's just on another level than everyone else and it's funny because he's not at his peak. This new wave just hasn't found that next level. He probably wins half of the slams Between now and the end of 2025 if he doesn't get hurt. 30 like I said is probably to high, but would anyone be shocked if he retires with 27? There's really only one guy who can push him and we just say he's not ready yet. Alcaraz will be great, but he's not going to be as good as any of the big three. 

[3CityApache]

15 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

There's really only one guy who can push him and we just say he's not ready yet. Alcaraz will be great, but he's not going to be as good as any of the big three. 

That's what I'm not sure I agree on. I think he actually is ready(ish). I think he could have won if not for the injury and anyway time works in his favor - he should be better and better at every slam from now on, while Djoko will inevitably start showing cracks in his game, or at least in physical capabilities. 

And judging by how Alcaraz plays at twenty, I don't rule out the possibility he will eventually be on the same page as the big three.

All in all, I wouldn't be totally surprised if Djoko won another four or five slams, but at the same time it wouldn't shock me if he finished at 23 or 24.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

35 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

That's what I'm not sure I agree on. I think he actually is ready(ish). I think he could have won if not for the injury and anyway time works in his favor - he should be better and better at every slam from now on, while Djoko will inevitably start showing cracks in his game, or at least in physical capabilities. 

And judging by how Alcaraz plays at twenty, I don't rule out the possibility he will eventually be on the same page as the big three.

All in all, I wouldn't be totally surprised if Djoko won another four or five slams, but at the same time it wouldn't shock me if he finished at 23 or 24.

He's ready against most players, but not the likes of Joker (and I think each of the of the big three at 28 handle him easily). He might have gotten another set off of him, however I doubt he wins even if he didn't get hurt. He's going to be the face of men's tennis for the next decade unless someone else emerges,  but that said he's not proven to be on that top tier yet. He might, and it wouldn't be surprising if he does, but he's not there yet whereas Iga seems like she's ready to sit on the throne alone from everyone else on  the women's side.

And I would be shocked if Joker only made it to 24. 23 should be close to a lock tomorrow. 

[3CityApache]

12 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Iga seems like she's ready to sit on the throne alone from everyone else on  the women's side.

Another thing I'm not so sure about. Sabalenka seems to be closing on her (and probably becomes #1 after Wimbledon by the way, as nobody's defending points for it and she has much more chance to get higher in London or even win it), and Rybakina has a style of play which seems to be exceptionally effective against Iga, even on clay, judging by their Rome match before Iga's injury, not to mention other surfaces. And they're both relatively young, just few years older than Iga.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, 3CityApache said:

Another thing I'm not so sure about. Sabalenka seems to be closing on her (and probably becomes #1 after Wimbledon by the way, as nobody's defending points for it and she has much more chance to get higher in London or even win it), and Rybakina has a style of play which seems to be exceptionally effective against Iga, even on clay, judging by their Rome match before Iga's injury, not to mention other surfaces. And they're both relatively young, just few years older than Iga.

Talent wise the gap probably isn't very large, but Iga just comes of as having that "it factor" and doesn't crumble. I think a lot of players would have quit today after what happened in the second and third set. However, when it mattered most she found herself. 

[3CityApache]

9 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I think a lot of players would have quit today after what happened in the second and third set. However, when it mattered most she found herself. 

That one is true, Sabalenka showed exactly this in the semis. But I still think it’s much too early to definitively say Iga won’t have worthy opponents in the near future. 
 

Sabalenka and Rybakina are one side, another is someone new, like this prodigy Andreeva, or Coco may at last live up to her potential, I don’t know. Too many factors to consider. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 hours ago, 3CityApache said:

That one is true, Sabalenka showed exactly this in the semis. But I still think it’s much too early to definitively say Iga won’t have worthy opponents in the near future. 
 

Sabalenka and Rybakina are one side, another is someone new, like this prodigy Andreeva, or Coco may at last live up to her potential, I don’t know. Too many factors to consider. 

Obviously others will beat her, but I think it's clear Iga has separated herself from the pack.

Ruud is showing some early life at 3-0 in the first. Let's see how long it lasts (Joker is playing very tight). 

 

[3CityApache]

Not long, obviously. 
 

But he’s still in play at least. So far. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by 3CityApache

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

19 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

Not long, obviously. 
 

But he’s still in play at least. So far. 

He's crumbling. I never get the strategy of hitting the ball directly back to a player when you can make them run, especially when said player has maybe the best returning skills ever. It's just a bizarre approach. 

[3CityApache]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

He's crumbling. I never get the strategy of hitting the ball directly back to a player when you can make them run, especially when said player has maybe the best returning skills ever. It's just a bizarre approach. 

I’m pretty surprised he made it to tie-break anyway. 
 

As for cross court balls vs. along the line, you know, playing tennis yourself, it’s just much more safe. Also, if you play cross for your opponent’s backhand, then when you change for the line, and he does get to the ball in time, he usually has a clear forehand shot and open court. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

I’m pretty surprised he made it to tie-break anyway. 

This already feels like it's over. Ruud threw his best punch when Joker was off and it didn't matter. Now he doesn't look tight and is on form. I doubt this even goes to four unless something radical changes.

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As for cross court balls vs. along the line, you know, playing tennis yourself, it’s just much more safe. Also, if you play cross for your opponent’s backhand, then when you change for the line, and he does get to the ball in time, he usually has a clear forehand shot and open court. 

Still, I'd always opt to make them run and hit the ball off balance. Notice how Joker feasts on this. Take out their legs then steal their soul. 

[3CityApache]

31 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

This already feels like it's over. 

Yeah, it’s pretty much over since the end of the first set. It’s just relatively long good bye for Ruud. I think they both know it, umpire knows it, and most of the audience know it too. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, 3CityApache said:

Yeah, it’s pretty much over since the end of the first set. It’s just relatively long good bye for Ruud. I think they both know it, umpire knows it, and most of the audience know it too. 

Ruud showed a little fight there, but yeah, it was always going to end in three once the first slipped away. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Wimbledon always sneaks up on me. 

[3CityApache]

Surprisingly favourable draw for Iga this year. Rybakina, Muchova, Jabeur, Ostapienko, Haddad-Maia, Sakkari all in Sabalenka’s half. 
 

I cautiously start believing she can make it to the final here, and she very seldom lose those, admittedly never on grass so far. 
 

Another potential quarterfinal vs Coco may also be tricky. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

22 minutes ago, 3CityApache said:

 Another potential quarterfinal vs Coco may also be tricky. 

Coco is struggling against Kenin. Iga should be the favorite still.

Venus played well, but is out. Idk why she doesn't retire, but hey, it's her life. Just feels like a champion boxer who can't accept it's over and keeps getting smacked around.