Craving Peaches Posted October 16, 2022 Author Share Posted October 16, 2022 1 minute ago, Finley McLeod said: She is emotionally damaged and her sanity is damaged. She is emtionally damaged but I don't think her sanity is damaged. Her sanity being damaged implies she's loosing touch with reality, which I don't think is the case. the trees have eyes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 16, 2022 Share Posted October 16, 2022 45 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: I'd argue Joffrey is not a very good example as his regents don't tell him no a lot. With other regents they seem to take a more active role. Joffrey can be a bad example for regencies as a whole but a good example that regencies decisions can be overruled. 47 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: If we really get into the medieval mindset, then marital rape doesn't exist. This means that Aerys did not rape Rhaella, because he was her husband. Yup. Exactly. But Aerys physical abuse of Rhaella wasn’t limited to sexual relations so maltreatment exists. 50 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: If the sex was consensual, I don't think it's fair to label Dareon a rapist, because he just isn't one. Lord Rowan saying he was meant he was treated like one. If he was innocent then he's been confined to a penal colony for the rest of his life because he didn't want to be executed/castrated. I don't think that's a fair punishment if he was just being irresponsible, which he would've been if he was innocent. He damaged Rowan’s property. It is a useless property now. For men it is more lenient but we still see women who “overreach” by marrying to men far above their station “getting their due” just as Dareon did. Tysha is an example that’s gone to the extreme because, well, Tywin, but at the very least they may be forced to join the silent sisters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Sidious Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Guilty? Absolutely she is guilty of killing Dareon. Arya had no legal foundation to kill Dareon. Yes it was an evil thing to murder Dareon. However, Arya is insane. How much does she know of fairness and justice at this point? I say not much. Arya’s is fully in insanity city. Arya Stark is thoroughly messed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) She is innocent. After all concept of being innocent until proven guilty means that anybody accused of a crime is assumed innocent until the allegations leveled against them are proven. To my knowledge no court has found Arya guilty of any crime. So she is not guilty Edited October 17, 2022 by Loose Bolt typo Northern Sword and Corvo the Crow 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Darth Sidious said: Guilty? Absolutely she is guilty of killing Dareon. Arya had no legal foundation to kill Dareon. Yes it was an evil thing to murder Dareon. However, Arya is insane. How much does she know of fairness and justice at this point? I say not much. Arya’s is fully in insanity city. Arya Stark is thoroughly messed up. I bet you've posted this same shit a hundred times, no time to sift through your hatred. Corvo the Crow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said: She is innocent. After all concept of being innocent until proven guilty means that anybody accused of a crime is assumed innocent until the allegations leveled against them are proven. To my knowledge no court has found Arya guilty of any crime. So she is not guilty That goes for Dareon as well then... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Darth Sidious said: However, Arya is insane. No she isn't... 3 hours ago, Darth Sidious said: How much does she know of fairness and justice at this point? Still quite a lot given that she killed Dareon because he was a deserter. 3 hours ago, Darth Sidious said: Arya’s is fully in insanity city. Arya Stark is thoroughly messed up. If she was 'fully in insanity city', she would be acting psychotic. She would be detached from reality. She is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: That goes for Dareon as well then... Well, he’s a member of NW that has abandoned his duty and makes no secret of it either. Guilty. Execute him and geld him while you’re at it since the avoided punishment of the crime committed is gelding. Arya has been too merciful with this criminal, I congratulate her on keeping her calm since as a highborn maiden she would’ve been most offended by this rapist who targets maidens of the nobility. Oh the humanity! What has the planetos come to that ladies of the highest birth are raped in their very own bedchambers by filthy commoners. Edited October 17, 2022 by Corvo the Crow Nevets 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said: Well, he’s a member of NW that has abandoned his duty and makes no secret of it either. Guilty. Execute him and geld him while you’re at it since the avoided punishment of the crime committed is gelding. If he was innocent of the rape then he doesn't deserve to be at the watch in the first place. And Dareon has not gone to trial. Innocent until proven guilty. He should be able to plead his case first. No court has found Dareon guilty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said: If he was innocent of the rape then he doesn't deserve to be at the watch in the first place. And Dareon has not gone to trial. Innocent until proven guilty. He should be able to plead his case first. No court has found Dareon guilty. He was with a lord’s daughter, of course he’ll get punishment. Only thing worse that he could’ve done with his bits was to get in bed with the said lords firstborn son and heir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 Just now, Corvo the Crow said: He was with a lord’s daughter, of course he’ll get punishment. Only thing worse that he could’ve done with his bits was to get in bed with the said lords firstborn son and heir. Just because he was with a lord's daughter doesn't mean he committed the crime. The in-world effects may be the same, but we as readers understand that just because Lord Rowan says something doesn't mean it's true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Just now, Craving Peaches said: Just because he was with a lord's daughter doesn't mean he committed the crime. The in-world effects may be the same, but we as readers understand that just because Lord Rowan says something doesn't mean it's true. He comitted a crime, rape or not and since the act was without the lord’s consent, it is a rape. Men or women, children don’t have much say, women less so since the firstborn son will inherit their father’s title and the others can, if they decide, leave the house to make a living for themselves. If the said daughter inherits, or the lord turns a blind eye, like Viserys did with Rhaenyra, she may do as she please but there will still be consequences. I’ve even given a real world example that happened not even a century ago and it happened with a king. Even a king may not get away with such wilful acts. In fact, I forgot to add but even today we have a prime example with prince Harry. I don’t know what else I can say, and these aren’t opinions that can just be disagreed upon but solid facts, of our world and Westeros both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Corvo the Crow said: I don’t know what else I can say, and these aren’t opinions that can just be disagreed upon but solid facts, of our world and Westeros both. They may be in Westeros (though I still think there is room for debate) but not in the real world, at least where I live a boyfriend etc. would not need the father's permission to sleep with his adult daughter (it would be polite to do so however, but if he hadn't it wouldn't make it rape, it's the lack of consent from the daughter which would). I thought we were talking about the real world since the comment of mine that you originally quoted was in response to a post saying Arya was 'innocent until proven guilty' and hadn't been tried in a court, concepts which don't seem to exist in Westeros. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said: They may be in Westeros (though I still think there is room for debate) but not in the real world, at least where I live a boyfriend etc. would not need the father's permission to sleep with his adult daughter (it would be polite to do so however, but if he hadn't it wouldn't make it rape, it's the lack of consent from the daughter which would). I thought we were talking about the real world since the comment of mine that you originally quoted was in response to a post saying Arya was 'innocent until proven guilty' and hadn't been tried in a court, concepts which don't seem to exist in Westeros. By Real world I meant both medieval times and todays nobility And I think I’ve made it clear by giving the examples such as prince Harry or emphasizing it several times over by highborn etc. Even sons don’t have the right to go around marrying whoever they please, they are property just as the daughters. If you go marry Jenny of Oldstones and not the match your father made, then you should be prepared to give up on your right to the throne. Where you live, the boyfriend who is sleeping with his adult girlfriend is most likely descended from some peasant somewhere several generations back. Same as the girlfriend. At most they’d be burghers, townsfolk whatever but even today if you marry Meghan Markle as a prince you may be cast out or some 90 years back try to marry Wallis Simpson not as a prince but a king no less, you may still be forced to abdicate. If the said daughter was just some random peasant, most he’ll get would likely have been a beating from the father. Even amongst the nobility marriage isn’t as simple, if Lord from the ancient house of Westerling marry a daughter from the trader turned noble house Spicer, then the daughter, Jeyne Westerling isn’t good marriage prospect anymore. Freys have been around for 600 years and though we see some of the older houses marrying them, they are still not looked well upon. As for courts Westeros does have it’s trials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: Even sons don’t have the right to go around marrying whoever they please, they are property just as the daughters. If you go marry Jenny of Oldstones and not the match your father made, then you should be prepared to give up on your right to the throne. That's true in the case of marriage, but I don't think they need their father's permission just to sleep with some random girl. 2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: As for courts Westeros does have it’s trials. It does but they're not like modern real world trials and the odds would be against Daeron (assuming he was innocent) because it's the word of some peasant vs the word of Lord Rowan and his daughter. He could claim she was lying but he has no proof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: That's true in the case of marriage, but I don't think they need their father's permission just to sleep with some random girl. The effects would be less damaging than with a daughter but a more caring lord father may scratch such a man off as a potential bride or a ruling lady may even break an existing betrothal. 3 hours ago, Craving Peaches said: It does but they're not like modern real world trials and the odds would be against Daeron (assuming he was innocent) because it's the word of some peasant vs the word of Lord Rowan and his daughter. He could claim she was lying but he has no proof. Well as a peasant he should've known better than to do such an act in such a society. Lord Rowan may just as well thrown him out of the window and said "he fell while trying to escape" and none would've ever cared, other than the fact that he spoiled Rowan's daughter. Edited October 17, 2022 by Corvo the Crow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 Just now, Corvo the Crow said: Well as a peasant he should've known better than to do such an act in such a society. Lord Rowan may just as well thrown him out of the window and said "he fell while trying to escape". Yes he should have known better, but I don't think being forced to spend life in a penal colony to avoid castration/execution is a fair punishment. Not that anyone in Westeros really cares, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said: Yes he should have known better, but I don't think being forced to spend life in a penal colony to avoid castration/execution is a fair punishment. Not that anyone in Westeros really cares, of course. Leper colonies existed throughout much of our known history and they only ceased to exist after 1950s if I recall. But this is just the western world, IIRC they still exist in India and China. It isn't even that contagious as it was thought to be and yet for thousands of years people with Hansen's disease were sent to these colonies. While these people were confined to colonies, just a few decades later, people with HIV didn't get the same treatment and it's actually much more transmissible. Of course there are now treatments for HIV that at the very least prevent you from transmitting it to someone, but a few decades back there was no such thing. All this talk about fair, I can say our modern world isn't so modern at all and still quite unfair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craving Peaches Posted October 17, 2022 Author Share Posted October 17, 2022 Just now, Corvo the Crow said: I can say our modern world isn't so modern at all and still quite unfair. The modern world is still quite unfair but that doesn't make Dareon's punishment fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rondo Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 The thread titled "Arya's Mental Illness" is closed now but you can find it easily. All of us had fun discussing the subject. Arya is really nuts. I should ask you Craving Peaches. So do you treat her and manage her so she can't murder? What do you do with an interesting clinical case like Arya? It would be contrary to the public good to let her loose. Surely you can agree to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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