Will all the Dothraki simply starve when they land in Westeros?

[Corvo the Crow]

6 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

It seems the idea was sufficiently serious that he told the Golden Company to expect Viserys and Drogo to join them.

That whole plotline feels like being written retroactively like plenty of other things in AFFC, most about anything to do with Dornish plot also feels that way and really makes me itch.

 

[Craving Peaches]

4 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

That whole plotline feels like being written retroactively like plenty of other things in AFFC, most about anything to do with Dornish plot also feels that way and really makes me itch.

I kind of get that feeling with the Maggy the Frog prophecy. I mean Cersei's jealously, pride, pettiness etc. were working fine on their own as a motivator before hand and there was really no sign of this prophecy motivation in the previous books. Also I made a thread about it a while ago but Melara's death should be mentioned by more than just Cersei.

[astarkchoice]

53 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

40.000 warriors, 100.000 total.

Yeah in danys 1st chapter its described as 100k then 40k so there must be a distinction between warriors...such a vast horde would need to be well spread out and moving to feed.

That said the dothraki sea is seaid tonbe  able to support 2 dozen  regular khalassars, we can assume drogos is a rare case where through conquest  hes folded most of those into one. ( bar a few holdouts such as the old khal who apparently avpids him)

[Jon Fossoway]

I don't think so. There's plenty of loot around, especially in the riverlands; it is the smallfolk the ones who would suffer, not the lords in their castles and walled cities. I think a lot of them dothrakis would leave back to Essos, but certainly a fraction will remain as mercenaries or as outlaws.

[astarkchoice]

7 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

It seems the idea was sufficiently serious that he told the Golden Company to expect Viserys and Drogo to join them.

The entire book seems to have a recurring theme of long term  plots needing altered with changing circumstances, partly due to the old  correct  adage of plans falling apart when meeting the enemy/reality. The fact that many are moving parts around at the same time doesnt help (for example ilyrio and varys saying their timeline for war is moving ahead of schedule without knowing LF is to blame) 

Side note on reflection if varys gave LF the kevan treatment early on (no jon arryn death)  itd be interesting to the ilyrios and varys  plot develop unhindered.

Varys begins stannis curiosity into roberts bastards and drags in jon arryn and the games begin.The central rough plan seems.to be to get the central backers of the roberts rebellion (river,vale,north,westerlands and stormlands) to exhaust themselves agaisnt each other. Viserys +dany  are both a distraction and a way for littlebirds to whisper to varys  who among  the lords would support a targe restoration. Etx

 

[Aline de Gavrillac]

Daenerys, her dragons, her Unsullied, and her Dothraki will be well-prepared when they arrive in Westeros.  Dany's armies will be well-provisioned and better trained than any army in Westeros.  They will come upon a desperate land hungering for leadership.  Having suffered under the incompetence of the Baratheons, Greyjoys, Robb Stark, Jon Snow, and the Lannisters, the people will be in desperate need of Dany's leadership.  The few remaining people who are still alive after the White Walkers have killed the population will be beg Dany for help.  

[Maegor_the_Cool]

24 minutes ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Daenerys, her dragons, her Unsullied, and her Dothraki will be well-prepared when they arrive in Westeros.  Dany's armies will be well-provisioned and better trained than any army in Westeros.  They will come upon a desperate land hungering for leadership.  Having suffered under the incompetence of the Baratheons, Greyjoys, Robb Stark, Jon Snow, and the Lannisters, the people will be in desperate need of Dany's leadership.  The few remaining people who are still alive after the White Walkers have killed the population will be beg Dany for help.  

[Tyrosh Lannister]

On 3/12/2023 at 5:10 AM, Craving Peaches said:

This may sound bad but I kind of hope the Dothraki just die before reaching Westeros. The Smallfolk have suffered enough.

The Dothraki are a savage and cruel people. The world would be better off without them 

[Maegor_the_Cool]

42 minutes ago, Tyrosh Lannister said:

The Dothraki are a savage and cruel people. The world would be better off without them 

Same with the Ironborn tbh. Though the sick part of me wants to see what Euron is up to first

[Tyrosh Lannister]

16 minutes ago, Lord_Tywin_Lannister said:

Same with the Ironborn tbh. Though the sick part of me wants to see what Euron is up to first

I agree with both your points . Insane Euron is probably going to summon krakens and also other Lovecraftian horrors! Can't wait !

[Aebram]

23 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

It seems the idea was sufficiently serious that he told the Golden Company to expect Viserys and Drogo to join them.

I think you're referring to this dialogue from ADWD 24?

Quote

“Which plan?” said Tristan Rivers. “The fat man’s plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver’s Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well."

Thanks, I had a feeling I was forgetting something.

But hold a moment; this has implications for the broader arc of the story. Many readers think that illyrio and Varys are plotting to put a Blackfyre on the throne. But if that's the case, why would Illyrio have arranged for the Golden Company to support Viserys?

And we know that Viserys himself once appealed directly to the Golden Company for support, and they turned him down.

Quote

Her brother Viserys had once feasted the captains of the Golden Company, in hopes they might take up his cause.  They ate his food and heard his pleas and laughed at him.  Dany had only been a little girl, but she remembered. (ADWD 16)

So Illyrio was supporting Viserys, even while he was managing the scheme to protect Young Griff and groom him to become a king? I must admit to some serious confusion at this point. And I've gone somewhat off topic; should I start a separate thread for this?

[astarkchoice]

3 hours ago, Aebram said:

I think you're referring to this dialogue from ADWD 24?

Thanks, I had a feeling I was forgetting something.

But hold a moment; this has implications for the broader arc of the story. Many readers think that illyrio and Varys are plotting to put a Blackfyre on the throne. But if that's the case, why would Illyrio have arranged for the Golden Company to support Viserys?

And we know that Viserys himself once appealed directly to the Golden Company for support, and they turned him down.

So Illyrio was supporting Viserys, even while he was managing the scheme to protect Young Griff and groom him to become a king? I must admit to some serious confusion at this point. And I've gone somewhat off topic; should I start a separate thread for this?

Viserys and dany are a distraction , the dothraki horde keeps him as crredible threat thus young griff is hidden and lords will talk about him (thus varys hears whos pro or vs targ rule)

Dany wss to die thus enraging drogo who may or may not take his horde across the water , doesnt really matter as long as all eyes are on him and varys is finding out whos an ally in the 7 kingdoms for your griff. We already know the crownlands are pro targ(brienne) , dorne is ready to ally and the golden company have 'friends in the reach'

 

The other part of the plannis to break roberts base (riverlands, north, westerlands, stormlands and vale) by sewing dissent,chaos and war , we hear iltyrio and varys say the war brewing  is ahead of when theyd planned (this is due to LF having his own seperate  agenda as we know) so they  had planned to stir up war a little later on  plus  as we know varys can kill key people at KL at will.due to his secret passages !!!  We know someone (varys agent  or himself no doubt ) got stannis interested in roberts bastards so there was conflict a brewing!!!

So if the dothraki come thats ok but if not its fine, they were always highly unlikely to cross the narrow sea anyway. The former roberts rebelliom rebel factions will spill their strength agaisnt each other , viserys will have 'an accident ' and a true targ  will be 'found'

hel cross the sea with the golden company , dornes support, whatever muscle in the reach the golden company can muster and all the various pro targ lords that varys will have ferreted out! Maybe even with enough extra time the golden companys officers and ilyrio could have pooled funds to hire a few extra sellsword companies to maybe add another 10-20k troops to their banner!

[astarkchoice]

On 3/13/2023 at 5:46 AM, Lord_Tywin_Lannister said:

Same with the Ironborn tbh. Though the sick part of me wants to see what Euron is up to first

I wanna see this v.steel armour tested 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

A fattened, well-fed Dothraki army will land in Westeros and find a starving kingdom of super skinny people.  The question is not whether the Dothraki will starve.  The question should be, will the Dothraki and their Khaleesi arrive in time to save Westeros from the White Walkers and the wrath of dark Bran Stark. 

[Craving Peaches]

2 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

A fattened, well-fed Dothraki army will land in Westeros and find a starving kingdom of super skinny people

Where's this magic food to feed them coming from then?

2 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

The question should be, will the Dothraki and their Khaleesi arrive in time to save Westeros from the White Walkers and the wrath of dark Bran Stark. 

The question should be, can people's anti-Stark bias get any more obvious?

[Aldarion]

2 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

A fattened, well-fed Dothraki army will land in Westeros and find a starving kingdom of super skinny people.  The question is not whether the Dothraki will starve.  The question should be, will the Dothraki and their Khaleesi arrive in time to save Westeros from the White Walkers and the wrath of dark Bran Stark. 

Where exactly will they find the food to feed both themselves and the Westeros?

And to answer the OP: yes, yes they will. If Martin is familiar with history of Mongol invasions at all, he will be aware of issues faced by any nomadic army campaigning anywhere not steppe. Or even in insufficiently large steppe, as the case may be:

https://historyandwar.org/2021/11/18/why-1241-mongol-invasion-of-hungary-failed-part-1-overview-of-the-invasion/

https://historyandwar.org/2021/11/21/why-1241-mongol-invasion-of-hungary-failed-part-2-reasons-for-mongol-withdrawal/

[Craving Peaches]

41 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

And to answer the OP: yes, yes they will. If Martin is familiar with history of Mongol invasions at all, he will be aware of issues faced by any nomadic army campaigning anywhere not steppe.

To add to this historians tend to think the Mongols would not have faired so well in the forests had they invaded the HRE. And which region is heavily forested? The Stormlands. So any Dothraki landing have the choice of: heavily forested Stormlands, Dornish desert, Vale mountains, or frozen woods in the North. No ideal open plains for them aside from the Reach, and they won't be landing there...

[Maegor_the_Cool]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:33 AM, Jon Fossoway said:

I don't think so. There's plenty of loot around, especially in the riverlands; it is the smallfolk the ones who would suffer, not the lords in their castles and walled cities. I think a lot of them dothrakis would leave back to Essos, but certainly a fraction will remain as mercenaries or as outlaws.

The Riverlands have been ravished by war, I doubt they’ll be that ripe when the Dothraki come to rape and pillage

[Maegor_the_Cool]

4 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

A fattened, well-fed Dothraki army will land in Westeros and find a starving kingdom of super skinny people.  The question is not whether the Dothraki will starve.  The question should be, will the Dothraki and their Khaleesi arrive in time to save Westeros from the White Walkers and the wrath of dark Bran Stark. 

Stop being wrong on purpose 

[Jon Fossoway]

2 minutes ago, Lord_Tywin_Lannister said:

The Riverlands have been ravished by war, I doubt they’ll be that ripe when the Dothraki come to rape and pillage

Agreed. But remember that the dothraki are used to roam deserts and big plains o' nothing full of ruins and bones and ocasioanlly the big walled city. The riverlands, even after the wars and fires it endured, is still a good plunder for these fellas.