Weirwood groves and other things

[kissdbyfire]

I was trying to make a list in my head of all the weirwood groves we get in the story, even former proper groves now reduced to weirwood stumps such as High Heart and the one in D&E. And while I was at it and looking at a map of the Riverlands to refresh my memory on how near or far HH is to the grove of stumps in D&E, I started thinking about something else as I often do… 

Why is it that so many/most just assume that the Hollow Hill of the BwB is beneath High Heart? Mind you, it could very well be, but then again it could very well be elsewhere. It’s never stated in the books as far as I recall. The one thing that certainly points to both being at the same location is the presence of weirwoods/weirwood roots - which I’m sure exist in greater number than we are aware of. But other than that, there’s really not much. I’d actually argue there’s more in support of these not being at the same location. Now, full disclosure, I haven’t read the pertinent chapters in ages. But even a quick research into Arya’s travels through the Riverlands seem to suggest that these are two different places imo. So, again, why assume that the Hollow Hill is beneath High Heart? 

[sweetsunray]

15 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

 But even a quick research into Arya’s travels through the Riverlands seem to suggest that these are two different places

I agree. It seems to be two different locations. If Beric is inside the hill of High Heart, no need to go to the Peach, etc.

And Jaime slept with his head on a weirwood stump too in the Riverlands.

[kissdbyfire]

Just now, sweetsunray said:

I agree. It seems to be two different locations. If Beric is inside the hill of High Heart, no need to go to the Peach, etc.

And Jaime slept with his head on a weirwood stump too in the Riverlands.

Yep. I just got really curious as to why so many or even the majority think both are at the same location. Irt Jaime, I thought of that when I was making my mental list of groves, but iirc there’s no mention of other weirwood stumps apart from that one, right? And then of course I started to think of the reasons to keep the location of the Hollow Hill of the BwB secret? 

[LongRider]

I looked up the passages of Jamie's dream for where he was and also a description of the stump.  While it's not outright said it's a WW stump, it's heavily inferred.  
"By evenfall they had left the lake to follow a rutted track through a wood of oak and elm. Jaime's stump was throbbing dully when Steelshanks decided to make camp. Qyburn had brought a skin of dreamwine, thankfully. While Walton set the watches, Jaime stretched out near the fire and propped a rolled-up bearskin against a stump as a pillow for his head. ....

The moonlight glimmered pale upon the stump where Jaime had rested his head. The moss covered it so thickly he had not noticed before, but now he saw that the wood was white. It made him think of Winterfell, and Ned Stark's heart tree."     A Storm of Swords - Jaime VI

The passage does not mention them going a hill, so it's doubtful that it is High Heart. 

 

[kissdbyfire]

54 minutes ago, LongRider said:

I looked up the passages of Jamie's dream for where he was and also a description of the stump.  While it's not outright said it's a WW stump, it's heavily inferred.  
"By evenfall they had left the lake to follow a rutted track through a wood of oak and elm. Jaime's stump was throbbing dully when Steelshanks decided to make camp. Qyburn had brought a skin of dreamwine, thankfully. While Walton set the watches, Jaime stretched out near the fire and propped a rolled-up bearskin against a stump as a pillow for his head. ....

The moonlight glimmered pale upon the stump where Jaime had rested his head. The moss covered it so thickly he had not noticed before, but now he saw that the wood was white. It made him think of Winterfell, and Ned Stark's heart tree."     A Storm of Swords - Jaime VI

The passage does not mention them going a hill, so it's doubtful that it is High Heart. 

 

Yeah, that's a weirwood I think... Cheers for the whole quote by the way. 

And even though there's no mention of a grove, given that they were travelling from Harrenhal to KL, they would have ridden past the grove of stumps we see in D&E. Not sure if that works, it could be too close to Harrenhal for them to make camp, hard for me to tell from the map.

ETA: had another look at the map, maybe it’s not that close, so maybe that’s where they made camp. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by kissdbyfire

[sweetsunray]

BTW, it just struck me... Remember Thoros complaining how he cannot see in the flames anymore to Brienne? Like he never could at High Heart?

Initially he could see things in flames beneath the hollow hill, despite the weirwood roots. This is one of those indicators against hollow hill being beneath High Heart, since Thoros cannot see anything in flames there. After Beric's death and the resurrection of Cat, Thoros lack of seeing anything in fires anymore is taken to believe the gods have abandoned the BwB. But it's just Thoros' ability that doesn't work anymore. Instead it might indicate that other old powers have grown strong enough in the hollow hill, as they do in High Heart.

[SaffronLady]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

Instead it might indicate that other old powers have grown strong enough in the hollow hill, as they do in High Heart.

I have this nagging feeling the Others could travel via weirnet, and they don't need to bring down the Wall to just ... show up across Westeros. They just need to weaken the magic enough to re-access the weirnet, and Thoros is feeling the effects of the weakening ward.

[Sandy Clegg]

On 10/17/2023 at 8:30 AM, SaffronLady said:

I have this nagging feeling the Others could travel via weirnet, and they don't need to bring down the Wall to just ... show up across Westeros.

I think this may have already been happening since book one. If they don’t have purely physical form then their influence may be more widespread than we have thought..