Nymor letter theories

[SaffronLady]

1 minute ago, KingAerys_II said:

Explain to me why it's illogical

I - and others - have been doing this since page 1. It's become very annoying seeing you repeat the same points again and again while thinking there is no problem with it.

But fine, if you wish, I will try again, because why not.

[SaffronLady]

3 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

It's very likely Rhaenys survived her fall, it is stated that Meraxes crushed the tower and the curtain wall of Hellholt in her mortal agony, she didn't crush immediately on the ground.

It's stated that Meraxes didn't crash immediately. We have no idea about Rhaenys herself. You can fall off a dragon or jump off, like King (consort) Daemon.

5 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

(Aegon II survived the Battle of the Rook Rest and the battle against Moondancer, he was burned, crippled, severely injured, but he was alive and Corlys Velaryon used poison to get rid of him).

We have no records to compare Rhaenys' crash and Aegon's. Car crashes are no less fatal because some people survive.

12 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

Meria and Ullers tortured Rhaenys , Deria and Nymor hired assassins to rescue her, the four consecutive Ullers died because of Nymor assassins, it is stated that only two assassins survived to receive the ransom:the assassins of Lady Toland and Lord Fowler.

Like I previously stated, either Nymor was a fucking genius in the art of intrigue, or he could not hire anyone that dared kill his mother and liege right under her nose. Or recruit anyone who dared join an attempt to rescue a leader of the invaders.

14 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

(Some members of House Martell turned against Prince Morion during the First Dornish War:"Although Morion had hoped to take Jaehaerys unaware, the king on the Iron Throne had spies in Morion's own court, and friends among some of the Dornish lords, and was therefore warned far in advance of the plans made by the Dornish prince", probably the same happened before) .

Morion was launching a brain-dead attack on the stormlands, Meria was leading the effort to defend Dorne, circumstances vary.

18 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

The theory must explain the following points that I used as clues to elaborate my reconstruction of the facts:

No, actually, because your interpretations regarding the facts is wrong and clouded by, for lack of a better term, no relevant experience.

19 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

1. Aegon had good relations with Deria, he and Aenys celebrated a feast for peace in Sunspear just after Rhaena birth.

Politics and diplomacy. Like, really, take this point out, IT REALLY IS IRREVANT.

19 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

2. Aegon clenched the letter so hard his hand is bleeding (the letter reveals Meria, who is dead, tortured his sister who was alive).

He is angry at Nymor's letter. He has many reasons to be angry at the still-independent Prince of Dorne. This reaction does not show anything in and of itself.

21 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

3. Aegon flies to Dragonstone for some reason. (Rhaenys shipped to Dragonstone, she was in a brutal state, however she is able to explain her journey in Dorne to Aegon).

That, or Rhaenys' corpse was shipped to Dragonstone. Or Nymor showed up with a guard team to "be a guest". Or Nymor warned of magicks Aegon needed to check Dragonstone's library for confirmation. Or Aegon went on an emergency check to the dragon lairs. You do know the Cannibal, a dragon hostile to the Targ dragons, is on the same island, right? Maybe Nymor said he would provoke the Cannibal to attack the younger Targ dragons. That certainly warrants Balerion flying back.

25 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

4. Her body was never recovered. (she is euthanized by Aegon and her body is burned as tradition)

She could be squished under Meraxes. That is an equally valid version of never recovered.

26 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

5. The ransom strategy was effective against the Ullers. It has no sense that an entire Tyrell army was no able to catch them and some people hired by the Iron Throne were able to murder 4 consecutive Lord of Hellholt in the desert. It was effective against the Ullers that were the lords that could have Rhaenys alive.

The Ullers are half-mad, they have less plot defence power against assassins. Besides, an army performing worse than assassins in killing single targets in the desert is understandable.

[KingAerys_II]

Clues of "A Song of Ice and Fire" in the books:

- Septon Barth stated Targaryens came to Westeros because of "The Doom of Men".

- Rhaegar became a warrior when he found out something in the scrolls.

- Jaeherys II arranged the wedding between Rhaella and Aerys after hearing a wood witch stating that the prince that was promised will be one of Aerys and Rhaella descendent

-  Maester Aemon believed Rhaegar was the prince.

- In one of Daenerys dreams there is Rhaegar and he tells to Elia that their son is the prince that was promised and his is the "Song of Ice and Fire".

[SaffronLady]

3 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

Clues of "A Song of Ice and Fire" in the books:

Get back here and defend your theory, not derail your own thread.

And no, the Song of Ice and Fire does not excuse Aegon for the deaths of everyone who died in his Conquest, most of all because the Song of Ice and Fire and Aegon's dream are 2 distinct concepts. Not withstanding future updates where Aegon's dream is not only confirmed but also confirmed to be about the Song.

[KingAerys_II]

2 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

Get back here and defend your theory, not derail your own thread.

And no, the Song of Ice and Fire does not excuse Aegon for the deaths of everyone who died in his Conquest, most of all because the Song of Ice and Fire and Aegon's dream are 2 distinct concepts. Not withstanding future updates where Aegon's dream is not only confirmed but also confirmed to be about the Song.

Who composed the Song of Ice and Fire? Someone invented it. 

My speculation : Rhaenys composed the song that talks about Aegon visions

[SaffronLady]

7 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

Who composed the Song of Ice and Fire? Someone invented it. 

My speculation : Rhaenys composed the song that talks about Aegon visions

And that has what to do with Nymor's letter exactly?

[KingAerys_II]

19 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

It's stated that Meraxes didn't crash immediately. We have no idea about Rhaenys herself. You can fall off a dragon or jump off, like King (consort) Daemon.

We have no records to compare Rhaenys' crash and Aegon's. Car crashes are no less fatal because some people survive.

Like I previously stated, either Nymor was a fucking genius in the art of intrigue, or he could not hire anyone that dared kill his mother and liege right under her nose. Or recruit anyone who dared join an attempt to rescue a leader of the invaders.

Morion was launching a brain-dead attack on the stormlands, Meria was leading the effort to defend Dorne, circumstances vary.

No, actually, because your interpretations regarding the facts is wrong and clouded by, for lack of a better term, no relevant experience.

Politics and diplomacy. Like, really, take this point out, IT REALLY IS IRREVANT.

He is angry at Nymor's letter. He has many reasons to be angry at the still-independent Prince of Dorne. This reaction does not show anything in and of itself.

That, or Rhaenys' corpse was shipped to Dragonstone. Or Nymor showed up with a guard team to "be a guest". Or Nymor warned of magicks Aegon needed to check Dragonstone's library for confirmation. Or Aegon went on an emergency check to the dragon lairs. You do know the Cannibal, a dragon hostile to the Targ dragons, is on the same island, right? Maybe Nymor said he would provoke the Cannibal to attack the younger Targ dragons. That certainly warrants Balerion flying back.

She could be squished under Meraxes. That is an equally valid version of never recovered.

The Ullers are half-mad, they have less plot defence power against assassins. Besides, an army performing worse than assassins in killing single targets in the desert is understandable.

Your arguments are weak, the theory keeps being the best fanfic about the topic,...the Cannibal? Really? He is smaller than Vermithor, Balerion and Vhagar are bigger than him, Aegon II survived worse things than crashing on a castle atop of a dragon, there is no John Wick in Asoiaf, only John Wick could have killed 4 consecutive lords of Hellholt in the desert, so... 

The ruler of this thread: 

"THE WALL TEXT THEORY" 

It's very likely Rhaenys survived her fall, it is stated that Meraxes crushed the tower and the curtain wall of Hellholt in her mortal agony, she didn't crush immediately on the ground.
(Aegon II survived the Battle of the Rook Rest and the battle against Moondancer, he was burned, crippled, severely injured, but he was alive and Corlys Velaryon used poison to get rid of him).
Meria and Ullers tortured Rhaenys , Deria and Nymor hired assassins to rescue her, the four consecutive Ullers died because of Nymor assassins, it is stated that only two assassins survived to receive the ransom:the assassins of Lady Toland and Lord Fowler.
(Some members of House Martell turned against Prince Morion during the First Dornish War:"Although Morion had hoped to take Jaehaerys unaware, the king on the Iron Throne had spies in Morion's own court, and friends among some of the Dornish lords, and was therefore warned far in advance of the plans made by the Dornish prince", probably the same happened before) .

So they rescued her and she was shipped to Dragonstone to receive the gift of mercy by Aegon himself, Rhaenys convinced Aegon to stop the devastation that almost annihilated the entire dornish population, the purpose of the Conquest was a united and strong Westeros to have the necessary  manpower to face the Others in future,to Rhaenys it was more convenient to have  an Indipendent and populated Dorne rather than a desert land with plague and famine.
Then I don't think the Queen was glad her siblings were destroying an entire civilization because of her fall at Hellholt,  she is described as a kinderhearted person, so she was not the kind of person that enjoyed sufferings of civilians.
She wrote the letter herself and she was smuggled to Dragonstone in secret to hide her mutilations from Orys and Visenya, it was the only way to avoid a further escalation.

The theory must explain the following points that I used as clues to elaborate my reconstruction of the facts:

1.Aegon had good relations with Deria, he and Aenys celebrated a feast for peace in Sunspear just after Rhaena birth.

2. Aegon clenched the letter so hard his hand is bleeding (the letter reveals Meria, who is dead, tortured his sister who was alive).

3.Aegon flies to Dragonstone for some reason. (Rhaenys shipped to Dragonstone, she was in a brutal state, however she is able to explain her journey in Dorne to Aegon).

4.Her body was never recovered. (she is euthanized by Aegon and her body is burned as tradition)

5.The ransom strategy was effective against the Ullers. It has no sense that an entire Tyrell army was no able to catch them and some people hired by the Iron Throne were able to murder 4 consecutive Lord of Hellholt in the desert. It was effective against the Ullers that were the lords that could have Rhaenys alive.

Edited November 20, 2023 by KingAerys_II

[SaffronLady]

3 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

Your arguments are weak, the theory keeps being the best fanfic about the topic

Chuckles

Like, I'm the last person entertaining your fanfic. You may as well play nice and fix your contrived theory instead of calling every disagreement wrong. Because, you know, as I repeatedly said, your entire basis of the theory is wrong in places and contrived overall.

3 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

the Cannibal? Really? He is smaller than Vermithor, Balerion and Vhagar

Vermithor is at best a f-king hatchling during the First Dornish War. Yes, the Cannibal probably is smaller than Conquest-era Vhagar and almost certainly smaller than Balerion, but Aegon and Visenya were both at King's Landing during Deria's visit (13 AC). The largest dragon on Dragonstone during Deria's visit and probably a couple of days leading up to it was the Cannibal. And it eats little dragons and hatchlings. Including Vermithor.

3 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

Aegon II survived worse things than crashing on a castle atop of a dragon

We have NO IDEA IF RHAENYS WAS ON HER DRAGON WHEN SHE CRASHED, GENIUS.

3 hours ago, KingAerys_II said:

only John Wick could have killed 4 consecutive lords of Hellholt in the desert

You must be as mad as Aerys because I don't see any correlation between my statement and your reply.

[KingAerys_II]

1 hour ago, SaffronLady said:

Chuckles

Like, I'm the last person entertaining your fanfic. You may as well play nice and fix your contrived theory instead of calling every disagreement wrong. Because, you know, as I repeatedly said, your entire basis of the theory is wrong in places and contrived overall.

Vermithor is at best a f-king hatchling during the First Dornish War. Yes, the Cannibal probably is smaller than Conquest-era Vhagar and almost certainly smaller than Balerion, but Aegon and Visenya were both at King's Landing during Deria's visit (13 AC). The largest dragon on Dragonstone during Deria's visit and probably a couple of days leading up to it was the Cannibal. And it eats little dragons and hatchlings. Including Vermithor.

We have NO IDEA IF RHAENYS WAS ON HER DRAGON WHEN SHE CRASHED, GENIUS.

You must be as mad as Aerys because I don't see any correlation between my statement and your reply.

There is nothing to fix, the theory is perfect, finally there is a fanfic about the topic that is worthy of the forum. 

Dragon riders are chained to their saddle, so she did the same thing Baela did when she survived against Sunfyre, or she suffered injury. 

Hellholt is located to the southernmost part of Dorne, there is only the Brimstone as source of water and food, that are toxic. 

There are how many houses in Dorne? The ransom strategy was effective against the Ullers that live in the most hostile part of Dorne. 

You are not able to keep the conversation, and the Cannibal is smaller than Vermithor, GENIUS

[SaffronLady]

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

There is nothing to fix, the theory is perfect, finally there is a fanfic about the topic that is worthy of the forum.

I am going to have to use this particular quote somewhere. Else.

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

Dragon riders are chained to their saddle, so she did the same thing Baela did when she survived against Sunfyre, or she suffered injury. 

Baela crashed from a height where you could jump off a dragon and survive (re: Aegon II), and mind you, Moondancer was still alive and trying to decelerate the fall. Rhaenys crashed from over the top of a castle. You could bet the chains held her in a non-fatal manner, but I'm just going to bet the other way.

Cared to look at industrial accidents and how people get crushed by chains pulled the wrong way? What do you think was happening to Rhaenys' chained leg as Meraxes crushed her along the walls of Hellholt?

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

Hellholt is located to the southernmost part of Dorne, there is only the Brimstone as source of water and food, that are toxic. 

There are how many houses in Dorne? The ransom strategy was effective against the Ullers that live in the most hostile part of Dorne. 

So a single operative, with pre-prepared rations, was more likely to stay sane long enough to assassinate people. Not that it would be the same agent for every Lord/Lady Uller killed, which I never said though you are implying by the "John Wick" thing.

Lord Tyrell's army was to march on Sunspear from the emptied Hellholt, not hunt the Ullers who have gone into hiding, by the way. I think you kind of mentioned this before, but like many other things, you got the context wrong.

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

You are not able to keep the conversation

Considering my usual temper I've been surprisingly civil with the shit you sling in my face.

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

the Cannibal is smaller than Vermithor, GENIUS

VERMITHOR HATCHED TWENTY YEARS AFTER NYMOR'S LETTER, GENIUS

[KingAerys_II]

Vermithor was bigger than the Cannibal, so the Cannibal was smaller than Vhagar and Balerion. 

Balerion was the largest dragon that lived on Dragonstone, so the Cannibal was no match to him, that's why Maegor chose Balerion, he was the strongest dragon.

I only showed that your magic water theory had no sense with facts, not with insults. 

 

 

[KingAerys_II]

Aegon II survived the most brutal fight of dragons, he survived Vhagar crashing on Sunfyre and Meleys, the Queen who never was ended up carbonized, so Vhagar washed the two dragons with a large amount of dragon fire, then he survived the attack of Moondancer, in the end he had : broken back, part of the armor fued in his body, broken legs, he was chained to his saddle.

So there is the possibility Rhaenys survived too

[SaffronLady]

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

Vermithor was bigger than the Cannibal, so the Cannibal was smaller than Vhagar and Balerion. 

Vermithor hatched in 34 AC; Nymor's letter came in at 13 AC. Vermithor literally has nothing to with the event.

1 hour ago, KingAerys_II said:

I only showed that your magic water theory had no sense with facts, not with insults. 

No, you did insult me, and your rebuttal was insulting regardless especially because you are saying it does not make sense without providing enough facts.

44 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

he survived the attack of Moondancer, in the end he had : broken back, part of the armor fued in his body, broken legs, he was chained to his saddle.

Aegon II broke his legs jumping off Sunfyre during the fight with Moondancer. You may see why I do not accept your theory, since you often get facts wrong.

47 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

So there is the possibility Rhaenys survived too

Let me just chuck you in an industrial grinder and see you survive that or not. No, better: I put your leg in, and see if you can survive torture on top of bleeding from a mangled leg.

[KingAerys_II]

You stated that the Cannibal was a threat to Aegon, he was not, at the time of the Dance he was smaller than Vermithor, so he was weaker than Balerion. 

PS: I know that  Vermithor hatched in Jaehaerys cradle. 

It's one of your "threat theories" that have very weak arguments just like the water magic stuff. 

Balerion is the most powerful being in Asoiaf, maybe the Others are stronger. 

Dorne has no magic to kill Balerion

Edited November 20, 2023 by KingAerys_II

[KingAerys_II]

I already posted enough about the water magic used by the Rhoynar, Morion Martell used no special devices against the Old King and his dragons and if he used something  it didn't work, anyway. 

Dragons are the most powerful beings in Asoiaf, that's a fact, during the first dornish war Quicksilver hatched, then there were other young hatchling dragons when Maegor was young. 

"Threat theories" have no sense, dornishmen are not the white walkers and I don't see what magical threat could have triggered Aegon so much to force him to sign the peace treaty, then there is the prophecy to consider, he was motivated by his visions

Edited November 20, 2023 by KingAerys_II

[SaffronLady]

9 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

You stated that the Cannibal was a threat to Aegon, he was not, at the time of the Dance he was smaller than Vermithor, so he was weaker than Balerion.

Asides from small not equalling weak, the Cannibal was a threat to Aegon because he eats little dragons - the future of House Targaryen. Come to think of it, why didn't Aegon chase the Cannibal away?

[SaffronLady]

15 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

PS: I know that  Vermithor hatched in Jaehaerys cradle. 

Lol quick wiki check yay

15 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

It's one of your "threat theories" that have very weak arguments just like the water magic stuff. 

You do know the Greenblood is a river too, right?

11 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

I already posted enough about the water magic used by the Rhoynar

The United States has a few thousand nukes, your logic is the USA should nuke the whole damn world to prove it.

12 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

during the first dornish war Quicksilver hatched, then there were other young hatchling dragons when Maegor was young. 

I'm sure the Cannibal doesn't mind a snack.

13 minutes ago, KingAerys_II said:

"Threat theories" have no sense, dornishmen are not the white walkers

They are dragonslayers and heir to dragonslayers, it makes more sense than the Reach staying independent with a letter.

[KingAerys_II]

It's not certain that the Cannibal lived at the time of the Conquest, Dorne is not able to control dragons

[SaffronLady]

I do agree though, that Rhaenys was somehow involved in the Aegon-Nymor peace negotiations to send a message. I believe it was her corpse that was involved, not her talking self.

[KingAerys_II]

Water Wizards did a wonderful job while Balerion and Vhagar were burning every stronghold in Dorne.