No Rhae of hope

[Many-Faced Votary]

I believe that Jon's Targaryen name being "Aemon" is so likely that I almost consider it as canonical as R+L=J in the first place.

That being said, his birth name is inconsequential, since his true name is Jon Snow, with everything in his life and character development that implies.

[Lord Varys]

On 2/29/2024 at 11:16 AM, Aldarion said:

That is actually a good theory. And yeah, it is nearly certain that Aegon will ride Rhaegal - and die alongside the dragon.

Not that any of the dragons will be surviving the books...

Aegon might be eaten by a dragon, but he is the least likeliest candidate for a dragonrider among the candidates as all foreshadowing indicates he gave up dragons when he went west.

On 2/29/2024 at 11:46 AM, Alester Florent said:

I doubt Lyanna named Jon Rhaegar. I would expect Jon's name was meant to be Viserys, but she might not have named him at all.

Rhaegar is the best Targaryen name for Jon as he was the only Targarydn Lya cared about. If he had such a name his mother would have chosen and given it to him, no one else. But chances that she gave her son a Targaryen name are still low. Aerys II killed her father and brother and even Rhaegar intended to kill or possibly kill Ned and Robert. And when Jon was born the dynasty was deposed. Her son could survive as a Stark but never as a Targaryen.

Even if she was some kind of Targaryen fangirl and sycophant - which I doubt - the Trident and the Sack would have taught her a lesson.

The name of Viserys was already used for Rhaegar's younger brother, so chances are that Rhaegar would have gone with a different one - Jaehaerys for his prophecy-obsessed grandfather or indeed Aemon to honor the great-granduncle he was corresponding with.

[Lord Varys]

6 hours ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

That being said, his birth name is inconsequential, since his true name is Jon Snow, with everything in his life and character development that implies.

While it is true for his upbringing, he isn't an adult yet and the manner how his true parentage is revealed to him as well as events and people around it shaping his future development will have s lesser or stronger impact on how he will see himself.

Ned will always remain his true father, but he is dead and gone now. The Targaryen thing broadens his family, adds Dany and perhaps Aegon as close kin, not to mention handing more responsibility to the whole of Westeros to him. These days he would still celebrate if King Tommen choked to death. Learning that Ned actually helped to toppled/kill his biological father's family has the potential help him overcome the pointless dynastical feuds.

[StarkTullies]

If Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna for the primary purpose of creating his prophecy baby, he was 100% convinced he was prophesied to be the father of the Conquerors reborn.  He was so blindly convinced that he would have a girl, boy, girl that he wouldn't have considered the possibility of having a second son or naming his third child anything other than Visenya.

So if Lyanna was set on their agreed name and then she unexpectedly gave birth to a boy, she would have named him Viserys.  Not Aegon or Aemon or anything else of the sort.

But, Lyanna didn't name him any Targaryen name.  Under no circumstances did this absurd scenario happen, because no character in the books is THIS stupid: "Promise me, Ned.  No one can know that my son is a Targaryen.  Nobody.  Promise me, Ned, promise me.  No one can know.  HIS NAME IS VISERYS TARGARYEN!!!!!"

We can debate whether Jon's real last name should be Snow, Stark, Targaryen, or Sand... but his first name is Jon.

Edited March 2 by StarkTullies

[Many-Faced Votary]

6 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

While it is true for his upbringing, he isn't an adult yet and the manner how his true parentage is revealed to him as well as events and people around it shaping his future development will have s lesser or stronger impact on how he will see himself.

Ned will always remain his true father, but he is dead and gone now. The Targaryen thing broadens his family, adds Dany and perhaps Aegon as close kin, not to mention handing more responsibility to the whole of Westeros to him. These days he would still celebrate if King Tommen choked to death. Learning that Ned actually helped to toppled/kill his biological father's family has the potential help him overcome the pointless dynastical feuds.

Oh, I fully agree with how this would enhance Jon's story and shift his perspective.

There is no doubt that realizing the truth will result in a major identity crisis, no matter how it is disseminated, and would also result in major reevaluation of Ned's character and motives by Jon and the other Starks. It is likely to have a huge impact on Jon's character and decisions going forward. What I meant was that, ultimately, his "true" name and identity will remain what he grew up with as Ned's son.

I think the fact that Dany is family will end up being very important to them both, whose arcs have deeply explored the meaning and value of family. Especially to Dany, who believes she is the very last Targaryen and is devastated by this fact. This also makes the Starklings Dany's family by extension, which will only strengthen her relationship with them, particularly her likely friendship with Arya.

It remains to be seen how, or even if, Jon will interact with Aegon "Targaryen." There will be the fake-out of Dany wanting to meet her nephew and coming across someone who certainly is not that, but ending up meeting her actual nephew, which will be unbeknownst to her at first. Doing that twice with Jon as well is pointless and not Mr. Martin's cup of tea.

Though, I will disagree with you on one thing. I doubt Jon would be happy if Tommen died. Tommen is rarely mentioned in Jon's chapters, and primarily with sympathy or pity when he is. Jon knows to some extent that Tommen is a sweet child, nothing like his brother -- and regardless, a child, who was not involved in what happened to his family.

[Alester Florent]

1 hour ago, StarkTullies said:

If Rhaegar ran off with Lyanna for the primary purpose of creating his prophecy baby, he was 100% convinced he was prophesied to be the father of the Conquerors reborn.  He was so blindly convinced that he would have a girl, boy, girl that he wouldn't have considered the possibility of having a second son or naming his third child anything other than Visenya.

So if Lyanna was set on their agreed name and then she unexpectedly gave birth to a boy, she would have named him Viserys.  Not Aegon or Aemon or anything else of the sort..

This is my reasoning, yes.

But I also agree that Lyanna probably didn't give him a name at all.

[Aldarion]

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Aegon might be eaten by a dragon, but he is the least likeliest candidate for a dragonrider among the candidates as all foreshadowing indicates he gave up dragons when he went west.

The only other real candidate is Jon Snow, and I don't see him riding a dragon either. Any other dragonrider candidates are based on basically wishful thinking and conspiracy theories.

[SeanF]

56 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

The only other real candidate is Jon Snow, and I don't see him riding a dragon either. Any other dragonrider candidates are based on basically wishful thinking and conspiracy theories.

You don't think that Dany's dragons will defect to Jon, Sansa, and Arya for .... reasons?

[Darth Sidious]

Rhaegar Jr!  Only a crazy like Lyanna could ever think of naming her bastard with a Targaryen name. Jon is a miserable failure and that makes sense if you only look at patterns. However, Jon is more than likely the bastard-born son of Mance Rayder. 

Yes, whoever rides Rhaegal might die just as Rhaenys did. Daenerys and Drogon will continue on and fulfill the promise of bringing Westeros back under Targaryen rule and begin her reign. 

[Aldarion]

3 hours ago, SeanF said:

You don't think that Dany's dragons will defect to Jon, Sansa, and Arya for .... reasons?

Not unless they find Toothless somewhere and the series turns into How to (not) Train Your Dragon.

[Lord Varys]

3 hours ago, Aldarion said:

The only other real candidate is Jon Snow, and I don't see him riding a dragon either. Any other dragonrider candidates are based on basically wishful thinking and conspiracy theories.

Not sure you read the books...? While Jon is an eventual candidate, Brown Ben Plumm, Tyrion, Victarion - the guy controlling the magical horn literally named DRAGONBINDER - are the obvious immediate candidates.

Those dragons have grown pretty large now, and they are wild living in their own lairs. If no riders master them they won't leave (the ruins of) Meereen.

7 hours ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

What I meant was that, ultimately, his "true" name and identity will remain what he grew up with as Ned's son.

I think the fact that Dany is family will end up being very important to them both, whose arcs have deeply explored the meaning and value of family. Especially to Dany, who believes she is the very last Targaryen and is devastated by this fact. This also makes the Starklings Dany's family by extension, which will only strengthen her relationship with them, particularly her likely friendship with Arya.

It remains to be seen how, or even if, Jon will interact with Aegon "Targaryen." There will be the fake-out of Dany wanting to meet her nephew and coming across someone who certainly is not that, but ending up meeting her actual nephew, which will be unbeknownst to her at first. Doing that twice with Jon as well is pointless and not Mr. Martin's cup of tea.

Though, I will disagree with you on one thing. I doubt Jon would be happy if Tommen died. Tommen is rarely mentioned in Jon's chapters, and primarily with sympathy or pity when he is. Jon knows to some extent that Tommen is a sweet child, nothing like his brother -- and regardless, a child, who was not involved in what happened to his family.

It would depend on what he wants to do with his new, true identity and how is going to present it to the world. Privately Ned will remain his father, but not publicly.

Also, of course, so far he feels no responsibility for the Realm. He juggles responsibility for the Watch, House Stark, and the wildlings in his head ... but not for all the Seven Kingdoms. That has to change. And he can do that as a Targaryen. The other nobility don't do that, that's why there were and are civil and succession wars.

Aegon would be Jon's half-brother and he is here, in Westeros, right now. If Jon were to learn about his parentage tomorrow he would reach out to him, not to his mad aunt at the other end of the world. If he only learns about it much later, it might be different. But Aegon would also make a good ally for Jon Snow and the Watch/wildlings as they both have beef with the Lannisters, etc.

I mentioned Tommen deliberately there. Jon writes a letter to him and literally states he wants to bring death and destruction to House Lannister while doing it. He might not want to kill the boy himself, but he certainly is okay with him dying. He has to shed this kind of attitude. And his real identity will help as he himself is both the result and the victim of another pointless civil war. Had he known who and what he was he would have tried to stop the War of the Five Kings.

[Craving Peaches]

1 hour ago, Darth Sidious said:

Only a crazy like Lyanna could ever think of naming her bastard with a Targaryen name.

Targaryens are lunatics so it checks out.

[Aldarion]

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Not sure you read the books...? While Jon is an eventual candidate, Brown Ben Plumm, Tyrion, Victarion - the guy controlling the magical horn literally named DRAGONBINDER - are the obvious immediate candidates.

Those dragons have grown pretty large now, and they are wild living in their own lairs. If no riders master them they won't leave (the ruins of) Meereen.

Brown Ben Plumm and Victarion yes. But dragonrider Tyrion just smells wrong.

[Craving Peaches]

2 minutes ago, Aldarion said:

But dragonrider Tyrion just smells wrong.

I really hope Tyrion is not a secret Targaryen. That would really undermine the writing in my opinion.

[Lord Varys]

1 hour ago, Aldarion said:

Brown Ben Plumm and Victarion yes. But dragonrider Tyrion just smells wrong.

Not if you check all the foreshadowing starting with the weirdo saddles, the dragon dreams, the interest in dragons down to the white dragon piece landing in front of him. Brown Ben is a featured extra and Vic and latecomer POV. Both could be placeholder riders for Jon Snow, of course. Somebody has to ride them to Westeros. They won't just read the script and follow Dany like puppy dogs. Drogon might, but not the other two now that have been imprisoned, separated from their mother, an grown wild and feral.

Tyrion is one of the most crucial main characters. If he isn't Aerys' bastard he is the most likeliest candidate to use the magical horn to bind a dragon to him permanently. Without a dragon he will be nothing but dwarf clown the plot will struggle to keep alive. He is a nobody now, and exiled criminal whose role to provide information on Westeros could be fulfilled by Barristan, Jorah, Archibald and Gerris, Marwyn, perhaps even Quaithe.

Without serious leverage - like a dragon - Tyrion could also not be trusted to betray Dany/her people. He murdered his own father and stands convicted of having murdered his double nephew and king. He is poison which should be spat out, not pampered and nourished. If they keep the guy then he needs some leverage.

With a dragon Tyrion could even feed Dany the idea that he is her long-lost secret half-brother ... even if that were utter horseshit (which I don't think it is). She wants to have more family, after all.

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

I really hope Tyrion is not a secret Targaryen. That would really undermine the writing in my opinion.

Not a secret Targaryen, an ill-begotten bastard born of rape or adultery, raised by a lovesick man who couldn't spit on the memory of the woman who owned his soul. If Tyrion is Aerys' son his relationship with Tywin makes sense ... if not, then Tywin is just a one-dimensional asshole who loathed Tyrion for little to no reason. Yes, yes, his birth killed Joanna, but Tyrion again and again proved his worth, especially during the War of the Five Kings. He deserved some recognition and a reward and Tywin should have realized that he was a crucial asset to consolidate Lannister rule.

Instead he is treated as if he wasn't Tywin's son ... which the guy would only do if he had good reason to do so.

Edited March 2 by Lord Varys

[Hippocras]

No votes for Jaehaerys here?

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Not if you check all the foreshadowing starting with the weirdo saddles, the dragon dreams, the interest in dragons down to the white dragon piece landing in front of him. Brown Ben is a featured extra and Vic and latecomer POV. Both could be placeholder riders for Jon Snow, of course. Somebody has to ride them to Westeros. They won't just read the script and follow Dany like puppy dogs. Drogon might, but not the other two now that have been imprisoned, separated from their mother, an grown wild and feral.

Tyrion is one of the most crucial main characters. If he isn't Aerys' bastard he is the most likeliest candidate to use the magical horn to bind a dragon to him permanently. Without a dragon he will be nothing but dwarf clown the plot will struggle to keep alive. He is a nobody now, and exiled criminal whose role to provide information on Westeros could be fulfilled by Barristan, Jorah, Archibald and Gerris, Marwyn, perhaps even Quaithe.

Without serious leverage - like a dragon - Tyrion could also not be trusted to betray Dany/her people. He murdered his own father and stands convicted of having murdered his double nephew and king. He is poison which should be spat out, not pampered and nourished. If they keep the guy then he needs some leverage.

With a dragon Tyrion could even feed Dany the idea that he is her long-lost secret half-brother ... even if that were utter horseshit (which I don't think it is). She wants to have more family, after all.

Not a secret Targaryen, an ill-begotten bastard born of rape or adultery, raised by a lovesick man who couldn't spit on the memory of the woman who owned his soul. If Tyrion is Aerys' son his relationship with Tywin makes sense ... if not, then Tywin is just a one-dimensional asshole who loathed Tyrion for little to no reason. Yes, yes, his birth killed Joanna, but Tyrion again and again proved his worth, especially during the War of the Five Kings. He deserved some recognition and a reward and Tywin should have realized that he was a crucial asset to consolidate Lannister rule.

Instead he is treated as if he wasn't Tywin's son ... which the guy would only do if he had good reason to do so.

Hopefully, Tyrion gets eaten by a dragon.

[Aldarion]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Not if you check all the foreshadowing starting with the weirdo saddles, the dragon dreams, the interest in dragons down to the white dragon piece landing in front of him. Brown Ben is a featured extra and Vic and latecomer POV. Both could be placeholder riders for Jon Snow, of course. Somebody has to ride them to Westeros. They won't just read the script and follow Dany like puppy dogs. Drogon might, but not the other two now that have been imprisoned, separated from their mother, an grown wild and feral.

Tyrion is one of the most crucial main characters. If he isn't Aerys' bastard he is the most likeliest candidate to use the magical horn to bind a dragon to him permanently. Without a dragon he will be nothing but dwarf clown the plot will struggle to keep alive. He is a nobody now, and exiled criminal whose role to provide information on Westeros could be fulfilled by Barristan, Jorah, Archibald and Gerris, Marwyn, perhaps even Quaithe.

Without serious leverage - like a dragon - Tyrion could also not be trusted to betray Dany/her people. He murdered his own father and stands convicted of having murdered his double nephew and king. He is poison which should be spat out, not pampered and nourished. If they keep the guy then he needs some leverage.

With a dragon Tyrion could even feed Dany the idea that he is her long-lost secret half-brother ... even if that were utter horseshit (which I don't think it is). She wants to have more family, after all.

Making Tyrion into a secret Targaryen nullifies basically everything that made Tyrion, Tyrion. It makes his character arc pointless, it makes his character pointless, because "secret Targaryen" can be basically anybody at this point. Hell, making Aegon into a secret Targaryen masquerading as a Blackfyre masquerading as a Targaryen makes more sense than making Tyrion into one!

The entire point behind Tyrion's character is that one child that Tywin despised the most is one that has the characteristics he prided himself on. In fact, if you look at it, each one of Tywin's children has inherited one aspect of Tywin's personality. Cersei has Tywin's cruelty, Jaime has Tywin's fighting prowess, but it is Tyrion that has Tywin's political and social acumen - the very thing that made Tywin so dangerous in the first place.

"Jaime, sweetling, I have known you since you were a babe at Joanna's breast. You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak...but Tyrion is Tywin's son, not you".

Tyrion has literally all the mental characteristics of his father - his intelligence, his manipulativeness, his affinity for whores. Tyrion is Tywin, yet Tywin refuses to acknowledge him and treats him like shit his entire life. Tywin wishes Tyrion was not his son. Making Tyrion into Targaryen would basically make Tywin's wish come true, another reason why it would be bullshit writing.

It makes more sense to make Jaime and Cersei into Aerys' children. Jaime, the perfect Lannister, person whom Tywin wanted to inherit his position... not a Lannister at all! And also a kinslayer in addition to being a kingslayer. This alone means that it makes far more sense for Jaime to be a secret Targaryen, as it adds parallel between Jaime and Tyrion with both of them killing their biological father. Similarly, Cersei has obsession with fire that just rings Aerys, and since they are twins, her being a Targaryen also makes Jaime into one.

And lastly, looking beyond just storytelling, Tyrion has black hairs in his hair and beard:

One green eye and one black one peered out from under a lank fall of hair so blond it seemed white.

He had let his beard grow to cover his pushed-in face, until it was a bristly tangle of yellow and black hair, coarse as wire.

Strands of hair, pale blond and black, clung to his brow,

Lannisters are blonde. Targaryens are usually white-haired. The way genetics work in Westeros, there is no way for Tyrion to be a Targaryen if he is Joanna's son. And if he wasn't Joanna's at all, Tywin will have noticed and gotten rid of him.

He may ride a dragon, yes, despite not being a Targaryen. But I think it is more likely for him to betray Daenerys and deliver a dragon to somebody else. Tyrion is defined by his smarts, not by his physical prowess.

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Not a secret Targaryen, an ill-begotten bastard born of rape or adultery, raised by a lovesick man who couldn't spit on the memory of the woman who owned his soul. If Tyrion is Aerys' son his relationship with Tywin makes sense ... if not, then Tywin is just a one-dimensional asshole who loathed Tyrion for little to no reason. Yes, yes, his birth killed Joanna, but Tyrion again and again proved his worth, especially during the War of the Five Kings. He deserved some recognition and a reward and Tywin should have realized that he was a crucial asset to consolidate Lannister rule.

Instead he is treated as if he wasn't Tywin's son ... which the guy would only do if he had good reason to do so.

Nope. It is quite enough for Tywin to believe that Tyrion is Aerys' son for his relationship with Tyrion to make sense. There is no need to make it an actual truth.

Edited March 2 by Aldarion

[Many-Faced Votary]

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Also, of course, so far he feels no responsibility for the Realm. He juggles responsibility for the Watch, House Stark, and the wildlings in his head ... but not for all the Seven Kingdoms. That has to change. And he can do that as a Targaryen. The other nobility don't do that, that's why there were and are civil and succession wars.

I don't think you should imply that house name informs behavior; that's a silly argument. In fact, the books have been careful to reject it outright. The entire point is that all families and houses, and therefore all royals and nobles (i.e., rulers), are comprised of people, who are different, differently virtuous, and differently flawed.

To the extent that Targaryens as a whole feel the responsibility you're talking about, it is because they were the royal family who created and were inextricably linked to the Iron Throne that unified Westeros as one realm. Granted, I think Jon knowing this aspect of his identity might help in that regard, but it can't be considered an inherent thing after the Targaryen dynasty was deposed.

Consider, the last two known living Targaryens. Viserys never bore the slightest bit of responsibility for the realm; he just craved power and what he deemed his birthright back. Daenerys feels responsibility for the realm even before stepping foot back into it, believing it her duty to dispense justice and provide prosperity. They are full siblings, but fundamentally different people with different perspectives on responsibility and duty.

The Dance of the Dragons was a Targaryen civil war that nearly tore the realm apart again, by the way.

 

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Aegon would be Jon's half-brother and he is here, in Westeros, right now. If Jon were to learn about his parentage tomorrow he would reach out to him, not to his mad aunt at the other end of the world. If he only learns about it much later, it might be different. But Aegon would also make a good ally for Jon Snow and the Watch/wildlings as they both have beef with the Lannisters, etc.

I fully agree with this hypothetical! I simply don't believe the timeline will work out to make it happen. Jon's parentage reveal is very likely to fall at a point around or after which the lie is slain, for parsimony of scope. At this point in the books, entering the third act and climax, it is important to avoid unnecessary complexity that won't add anything significant to Jon's characterization or to the plot now. Dany will already be grappling with fAegon, thematically and otherwise.

Granted, I could be wrong, and Mr. Martin's famous gardening might well shift things to align with what you suggested, but this is my reading of the published books and character arcs thus far.

 

13 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

I mentioned Tommen deliberately there. Jon writes a letter to him and literally states he wants to bring death and destruction to House Lannister while doing it. He might not want to kill the boy himself, but he certainly is okay with him dying. He has to shed this kind of attitude. And his real identity will help as he himself is both the result and the victim of another pointless civil war. Had he known who and what he was he would have tried to stop the War of the Five Kings.

It is important to understand the context here. Jon, in the end, admitted that a paper shield was better than nothing. The very act of sending the letter demonstrates his relinquishment of that attitude.

[Lord Varys]

7 hours ago, SeanF said:

Hopefully, Tyrion gets eaten by a dragon.

Perhaps eventually, but not too soon. Would be a waste of a far too long travelogue, lol.

7 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Making Tyrion into a secret Targaryen nullifies basically everything that made Tyrion, Tyrion. It makes his character arc pointless, it makes his character pointless, because "secret Targaryen" can be basically anybody at this point. Hell, making Aegon into a secret Targaryen masquerading as a Blackfyre masquerading as a Targaryen makes more sense than making Tyrion into one!

The dragon has three heads, not one or two. And there are three dragons, not one or two. Dany and Jon clearly are two heads and two future dragonriders and also future lovers/spouses.

But there is a third one missing. And that person is not going to be the fake Aegon, the fake Stannis, the fake stone beast breathing shadow fire, etc. It also won't be Victarion or Euron or Brown Ben even if one of them were to become a placeholder dragonrider.

The third head will be a main character. And that only leaves Tyrion. He is the only reasonable choice.

Doesn't mean he has to be Dany's half-brother. But it is not unlikely.

Tyrion would - and actually seems to have been set up, perhaps unconsciously - as an anti-Jon, a twisted mirror image of the hidden prince. Jon is a prince allegedly born of rape disguised as a motherless bastard, while Tyrion is a bastard (born of rape) disguised as a great lord's son (or 'prince' if we use the term more broadly).

There is great potential there, much more than in the Lannister story which doesn't go away as Joanna Lannister is still his mother. And Tywin is a dead secondary character, like Ned. Ned remains Jon's 'true father' just as Tywin remains the man who brought up Tyrion.

Aegon is another plot entirely. He shows how you can exploit people's hopes by way of propping up a fake pretender.

1 hour ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

I don't think you should imply that house name informs behavior; that's a silly argument. In fact, the books have been careful to reject it outright. The entire point is that all families and houses, and therefore all royals and nobles (i.e., rulers), are comprised of people, who are different, differently virtuous, and differently flawed.

To the extent that Targaryens as a whole feel the responsibility you're talking about, it is because they were the royal family who created and were inextricably linked to the Iron Throne that unified Westeros as one realm. Granted, I think Jon knowing this aspect of his identity might help in that regard, but it can't be considered an inherent thing after the Targaryen dynasty was deposed.

Consider, the last two known living Targaryens. Viserys never bore the slightest bit of responsibility for the realm; he just craved power and what he deemed his birthright back. Daenerys feels responsibility for the realm even before stepping foot back into it, believing it her duty to dispense justice and provide prosperity. They are full siblings, but fundamentally different people with different perspectives on responsibility and duty.

The Dance of the Dragons was a Targaryen civil war that nearly tore the realm apart again, by the way.

Sure, it isn't that easy. But the War of the Five Kings is the direct result of nobility caring only about their petty ambitions and feuds, ignoring both the common good in a mundane sense as well as the Others.

Of course, not all Targaryen kings were equally caring about the common good, but the good ones did. And even the bad ones had their identity as being the custodians of the legacy of Aegon the Conqueror. Robert and his brothers and children are very far removed from that (with the exception of Stannis, eventually) as are the men and women making up his court. Just think about the blatant power grab of the Lannisters which is partially motivated by their own belief that Tywin would be a better king and/or Lannister blood is more noble than Baratheon blood. We didn't get that shit during the Targaryen era.

Wouldn't judge Viserys that harshly as he grew up in exile with no one to prepare him to be king or even a lord. Dany is more compassionate, to be sure, but she only thinks it is her job to set things right because she is the last Targaryen and her brother's heir.

Jon saw how Robb was groomed for his role as a future great lord but he lacked the instruction/perspective of a future king. Jon might eventually get that with his true parentage.

1 hour ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

I fully agree with this hypothetical! I simply don't believe the timeline will work out to make it happen. Jon's parentage reveal is very likely to fall at a point around or after which the lie is slain, for parsimony of scope. At this point in the books, entering the third act and climax, it is important to avoid unnecessary complexity that won't add anything significant to Jon's characterization or to the plot now. Dany will already be grappling with fAegon, thematically and otherwise.

Granted, I could be wrong, and Mr. Martin's famous gardening might well shift things to align with what you suggested, but this is my reading of the published books and character arcs thus far.

I don't expect that to happen, either, but we shouldn't dismiss the possibility completely that the revelation of Jon's true parentage might play a role in his resurrection or the immediate aftermath.

And for the time being Westerosi folks will have to interact with Aegon. Dany is very far away.

1 hour ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

It is important to understand the context here. Jon, in the end, admitted that a paper shield was better than nothing. The very act of sending the letter demonstrates his relinquishment of that attitude.

It didn't change his opinion, and he continued to work against the Lannisters and their allies, together with Stannis, etc.

I think George will have him develop a broader view when he knows who is, never mind that he could and should have already had that view as Lord Commander of the NW. Biggest weirdness of ADwD is that he makes no attempt at all to convince anyone outside the North (and not even them) about the threat the Others pose. Davos goes to White Harbor, but why no survivor of the Fist? Hell, even Sam doesn't get letters for his father, his Florent relations and Hightower in-laws. He talks to an obscure scholar, not to his uncle-by-marriage, Lord Leyton Hightower.

That only makes sense plot-wise if it is saved for a later point in time ... even if it barely makes sense right now as firsthand experience of the Others should override petty ambitions and feuds.