News from the insane world of Terry Goodkind

[Analu]

Only if I get the royalties for it

No way, Wert. We'll split it. You came up with the slogan, but I came up with the brilliant bumper sticker idea

[Werthead]

No way, Wert. We'll split it. You came up with the slogan, but I came up with the brilliant bumper sticker idea

True. Hey, this could be a whole business: 'Fantasy Author Quotation Bumper Stickers'. Could be a money-spinner.

[Larry.]

If that's the case, then someone should get plenty from some of Scott Bakker's comments - he's got some great one-liners over at his site and in various interviews.

[Analu]

True. Hey, this could be a whole business: 'Fantasy Author Quotation Bumper Stickers'. Could be a money-spinner.

You jest, but may have something. We could sell them at Cons and make a killing!

[Werthead]

"Well first off, you should know that I don’t write fantasy - only hacks write fantasy. My books are about the triumph of the human spirit which just happen to have everything you would find in The Wheel of Time..."

Ironic quote from L. Scott Bakker channelling the spirit of another author whose name I can't quite remember at the moment (hint: check the thread title)...

[Larry.]

As I said over at OF when I read it, Bakker's hilarious when he's bagging on people like Goodkind. Go to the Articles and Interview section of the OF section and click on the late June 2004 interview with Bakker...or rather, just find "Addendum to the Bakker Interview: The Monkey Question" (or something like that) and read what he wrote in response to our typical silly close.

[Werthead]

This is cool: from the interview Dylanfanatic mentions above:

One question: "What makes me right and other people wrong?" If you think about it, there's something almost embarrassing about assuming oneself to be 'in the know.' For one, it's extremely improbable that out of billions, one person called 'me' could monopolize the truth - especially when we take into account of all the ways (such as confirmation bias, social-proof bias, deprivation bias, and so on) we humans are inclined to delude ourselves. For another, it seems fairly certain that thousands of years hence our descendants will think us as deluded as we think our ancient ancestors were deluded. The fact of the matter is that we know so very little - it's just the invisibility of ignorance that makes this so hard to see. All we need do is own up to that fact. With the suspension of judgment comes learning, tolerance, and openness to the new.

Translation from the Bakker: you know sh*t-all, Mr. Goodkind.

[werewolfv2]

This is cool: from the interview Dylanfanatic mentions above:

Translation from the Bakker: you know sh*t-all, Mr. Goodkind.

or as said in a book by Mike Malone (foolscap) - he dont know fuck about shit

[Larry.]

If you were to own several monkeys and/or midgets, how many would you own, and what would you name them?

I would have to go with monkeys, because dwarves are no longer cool in fantasy. One I'd name Clint, and I'd train him to chew cigars and watch the saloon doors with a steely gaze. The second I'd call Terry, and I'd forbid him from making things up about philosophers he's never read, and I'd try not to look at him, for fear he might be masturbating. Another I'd call Shakespeare, and I'd turn questions regarding his sexual orientation into a morbid fascination. Then there would be Gwynneth, whom I would woo with critcisms of Troy, shaving cream, and very, very dim lights. I'd call one Bush, and when he got a rash, I'd call him 'burning' and listen with awe and reverence to what he had to say. The last one I would call Nietzsche, and I would teach him to repeat, as well as he could, these words of wisdom: 'There is no one smarter than Jack Handey. There is no one smarter than Jack Handey.'

I think this was more direct

[Analu]

The second I'd call Terry, and I'd forbid him from making things up about philosophers he's never read, and I'd try not to look at him, for fear he might be masturbating.

This is abso-fuckin-lutely brilliant! I've never heard of another fantasy author having the balls to have a direct quote attributed to him that captured the minds of us normal folk so perfectly. What a swell guy

ETA: I'd love to have a snapshot of Terry's face when he read that. It would be my avatar

[Krafus]

This is abso-fuckin-lutely brilliant! I've never heard of another fantasy author having the balls to have a direct quote attributed to him that captured the minds of us normal folk so perfectly. What a swell guy

ETA: I'd love to have a snapshot of Terry's face when he read that. It would be my avatar

Oh, I don't think Badkind showed much reaction. Likely he just shook his head, thought Here's another one who doesn't understand my brilliance and the nobility of the human spirit, and went back to writing his latest torture scene.

[Baeraad]

This is bordering on depressing... Bakker, who seems to be a very intelligent fellow, uses the word "individuality" like it's a curse. Meanwhile, Goodkind, who's a moron, clearly can't mention enough times just how pro-individuality he is. And it's not just those two, either. Everyone who seems to have a grip on things are singing the praise of community and altriusm and inderdependence and self-denial.

This is very distressing for me, considering that I think individuality is just about the most important thing there is. ;

Then again, both Bakker and Goodkind seems to define individuality as the right to make money any way you want and spend them on anything you please - which I consider a very strange use of the word. I would define it as the right to live any way you want, and money plays a very small part in that.

Man, I hope that distinction is enough to disassociate me from the Goodkinds of the world. 0_o;;

[Plessiez]

Baeraad:

Surely the Goodkind definition of individuality you propose is just a particular case of your own definition? That is, doesn't having the right to live any way you want also grant you the right to make money any way you want? (How you make money being one aspect of how you live).

[Larry.]

Well, I think Bakker is approaching this from a different angle than what you're perceiving. From what I've seen in the three books, from his interviews (oh, and read this lengthy conversation he had with me over at wotmania in November), I don't think he would say 'individuality' is a 'curse.'

He would likely argue that it's an illusion. The very concept is a very recent one, only going back a couple years, after the Industrial Revolution made it much easier for individuals to lead a solitary life. But what's ironic is that now, more than ever, people are interdependent upon each other - for the clothes they wear (upon people they'll likely never see, as most are made outside the industrialized nations today), the shoes (again, overseas), the food (farming factories of sorts from the US and other nations), the means of transport (automobiles, buses, manufactured and driven by others), not to mention that the means of communication (telephone, TV, radio, Internet) are mass-produced and oriented. And yet, some like Bakker would argue, people think they are Individuals (note the capitalization)? Perhaps this is due to the more invisible nature - things are just readily available, without us seeing the process of their manfacture. But hundreds or thousands of years ago, people tended to identify themselves as individuals (small-case) within the larger whole of a Society.

I could go on for a long time on the differences in pre- and post-industrial societies (or gemeinschaften vs. gesellschaften, as we social/cultural historians tend to use the German terms for these types of societal-individual arrangements), but I think that would detract from the purpose of this thread: to mock Terry Goodkind incessantly

[Analu]

Oh, I don't think Badkind showed much reaction. Likely he just shook his head, thought Here's another one who doesn't understand my brilliance and the nobility of the human spirit, and went back to writing his latest torture scene.

You're probably right, but since this is a slap coming from an established author, I'd like to think Tkind would be more insulted.

[Baeraad]

That is, doesn't having the right to live any way you want also grant you the right to make money any way you want?

Yes, but like I said, a small part. And I'm not arguing that everyone should have the right to do everything they want - that's impossible, for one thing, seeing as people frequently use their freedom to steal the freedom of other people. As in, an employer who is "free" to refuse to hire any applicant for any reason can chose not to hire someone of a particular religion, which in practice means that there suddenly is a penalty for belonging to that religion - and that is an infringement on the freedom to belong to any faith you please. Clearly, one freedom or another have got to go.

So, seeing as I realise that it's impossible to be completely free, there are liberties I'm willing to give up to a higher degree and liberties that I'm willing to give up to a lesser degree. The ability to buy and sell in any manner I please is a liberty I care very little about, seeing as I don't feel I need either a lot of money or a lot of possessions to express myself.

Does that make sense?

Dylanfanatic:

Yes, but whether it's a curse or a harmful delusion, the fact remains that he regards it as being A Very Bad Thing. Now, I will agree that refusing to realise that everything is connected to and to some extent relies on everything else just isn't a sensible way of looking at things. It's just that I don't think that being "individuals within the larger whole of Society" was a particularily good way of going about it either.

As Bakker said himself in that interview, the thing we've lost is the security of knowing where our place is in the grand scheme of things. Now, according to that way of thinking, we have convinced ourselves that there is no grand scheme of things - just a bunch of Individuals going about their business, without affecting each other at all.

For me, that's just two different forms of personal impotence. You're helpless if your place in the world is predetermined and unchanging, and you're helpless if you've decided that nothing you do affects anything else. I'd like to think that rather than going back to being "individuals within Society" or staying "Individuals detached from society" we'll reach a synthesis of the old and the new way of thinking, and people will become able to choose their place in the world - to become "Individuals interacting with Society," one could say.

Certainly that's how I'm trying to live my life.

I think that would detract from the purpose of this thread: to mock Terry Goodkind incessantly.

Well, I didn't mean to interrupt that particular endevour, seeing as it's one I'm rather fond of myself...

[Larry.]

Anyways...while I see where you're coming from and agree with some, disagree with others (I particularly like the notion of a continuing discourse between individual and society, while thinking you're reading something into what Bakker has said that might not be there - I don't think he'd say being individual is a bad thing, only the illusion of being independent can be, if it leads to a dissonance between Self and Superego, to steal some of Freud's terms for the connections between a person and a society - but this is a topic for another time), I think it'd be more fun to ask ourselves:

What would Terry Goodkind do?

And while I think on that...I'll end here

And here we go...

To be sung to "What would Brian Boitano Do?

What would Terry Goodkind do

If he was here right now,

He'd make a plan

And he'd follow through,

That's what Terry Goodkind'd do.

When Terry Goodkind was in the woods,

Scraping off tree bark while looking bold,

He shot two pinko commies and did a triple somersault,

While wearing a blind fold.

When Terry Goodkind was in the Alps,

Fighting the Soviet Bear,

He used his magical fire breath,

And saved the capitalists fair.

So what would Terry Goodkind do

If he were here today,

I'm sure he'd kick a liberal ass or two,

That's what Terry Goodkind'd do.

I want this SoT out of me,

It has stunted my vo-ca-bu-lar-y.

And I just want the Commies

To stop fighting everyone

So then I'll be an Objectivist, too,

Cuz that's what Terry Goodkind would do.

And what would Terry Goodkind do,

He'd call all the kids in town,

And tell them to unite for truth

That's what Terry Goodkind would do.

When Terry Goodkind copied WoT time after time

To the year 3010,

He wrote volume number twenty-nine

And bored the human race again

And when Terry Goodkind finishes SoT,

He'll be just like Robert Jordan too!

Cuz Terry Goodkind doesn't take shit from an-y-body

So lets all get together,

And unite to recite SoT

And we'll save capitalism and Ayn Rand too,

Cuz that's what Terry Goodkind'd do.

And we'll save capitalism and Ayn Rand too,

Cuz that's what Terry Goodkind'd dooooooo,

That's what Terry Goodkind'd do.

As modified from a post I made here.

[Brys]

This is bordering on depressing... Bakker, who seems to be a very intelligent fellow, uses the word "individuality" like it's a curse. Meanwhile, Goodkind, who's a moron, clearly can't mention enough times just how pro-individuality he is. And it's not just those two, either. Everyone who seems to have a grip on things are singing the praise of community and altriusm and inderdependence and self-denial.

This is very distressing for me, considering that I think individuality is just about the most important thing there is. ;

Then again, both Bakker and Goodkind seems to define individuality as the right to make money any way you want and spend them on anything you please - which I consider a very strange use of the word. I would define it as the right to live any way you want, and money plays a very small part in that.

Man, I hope that distinction is enough to disassociate me from the Goodkinds of the world. 0_o;;

I agree with you there - individuality, liberalism, whatever you want to call it - should be about freedom to live however you want, it shouldn't be talking just about the economic side of things, which is why it annoys me to see Goodkind go on about how individualist he is and to see objectivism described as "libertarian", when it seems to me to be almost an antithesis to true liberalism.

[werewolfv2]

Gods that forum is an abortion.

they removed a poll that asked - what other authors do you read? - the thread also stated - do not discuss the merits of the authors, just state which ones you read- .

guess Mr.Goodbar doesn't want his readers to touch any other books..

[Jagged]

That was a great song adaptation.

When I'm in a bookstore and see someone looking at Goodkind's shit I try to warn them away and get them to consider something else...anything really. I don't really hate him I just wished he would stop writing books and go work in a lumber mill or something.