News from the insane world of Terry Goodkind

[Ser Illin' Pain]

When you get a chance to read CHAINFIRE, please, slow down.

I can certainly understand the burning desire to discover what will happen, but if you race through the book in mere hours you are skimming, you are not reading. In skimming, you miss the complex string of concepts, which spark your imagination and create the total experience. Cliff Notes can tell you what happened in a book but the can't recreate the experience of actually reading the books. Skimming is much the same as getting the Cliff Notes version of the story.

That is too funny. Goodkind repeats the entire plot summary for all 9 books at least once per chapter, and the characters re-think the same thoughts at least twice per chapter. I don't see how its possible to read the book without skimming.

Complex string of concepts which spark my imagination? I knew what had happened (if not who the villains were) from page 3. It took another 600 pages for Richard the "Seeker" to figure it out.

I've never been a Goodkind basher, finding it nice light reading. But Chainfire was just unreadable. I'm officially one of the haters after that waste of time.

[Jaxom 1974]

but I tend to think that's just symptomatic of Goodkind's generally poor writing ability, not a sign that he's a sellout.

Churing out the same basic story over and over again isn't selling out? Giving the fans new books in succession with little to no character or plot development. This isn't a sign of selling out? Are those not qualities attributed to Mr. Jordan when he's accused of being a sellout?

Just curious...

(For the record, I sure as hell am not defending Goodkind...but if he's truly thevillan we believe him to be, then he should either take Jordan-like heat, or we'll have to ease up on Jordan)

[Werthead]

Ease up on Jordan I think. The guy used to write good books (whilst Goodkind only ever wrote one middling book), and he hasn't used his much greater fame to promote his political and/or philosophical viewpoints (unlike Goodkind). Jordan is only mildly irritating when compared to the offenses of Goodkind.

Also, I once read all 10 books of Mission Earth (note to self: never agree to review a ten-volume SF series for a school book report without checking if it's any good first). After staring into the true abyss of bad writing, I have to conclude that compared to that Jordan is fricking Shakespeare.

Hmm...tedious philosophical viewpoints, bad writing style, rehashing old plots, homophobic viewpoint, obsession with S&M and bizarre sex rituals...gasp! Maybe Goodkind is being possessed by the spirit of L. Ron Hubbard?

[The Stranger]

2 thoughts:

first, before reading this thread, I had heard of Goodkind, but didn't even know who he was. early in this thread I squealed, had a high school flashback and said to myself, "shit! I didn't *imagine* Wizard's First Rule?! someone actually *wrote* that?!"

second, that forum is fucking insane. this si the only forum i've ever really timesunk on, and I had no idea how good we have it!

RAN! :kiss: :kiss:

although it would be nice if we had a subforum here called 'The Deep Nothing.'

--it would be a convenient place to redirect the aussie thread, the endless thread, and some of Hammer's stranger links.

[The Stranger]

OMG! this goodkind forum is a go0o0o0o0o0o0o0o0ldmine!

<insert crazy old prospector cackle>

How Has Goodkind Changed Your Life For The Better?

I present my ASOIAF tribute:

Before reading Martin, I was a sixteen year old, callow high school student. now, eight years later, I don't think I could have survived my intermittent years without him! he really taught me that dwarfs are people too, and that some of them are very clever, so you shouldn't underestimate them just because they're small. Some dwarves can even kill people with spiked helmets!

While this slow transformation overtook me on the true depths of dwarf culture, i also learned a lot about life from the brothers Clegane. Sandor's insights into life really taught me how to hate things weaker than myself, because they are cowardly and deceptive, unlike dogs, which are loyal to their masters. his brother Gregor's lifepath affected me even more, because Gregor showed me that large people are even more dangerous than dwarfs, because they anger easily and can survive even the strongest poisons.

these lessons were so important to me, I can't imagine living a single day without them! before I read Martin's masterful analysis of human psychology at the heights of medieval power, I used to walk through the streets skipping. now, I can see how my lack of Objectivism has made me a sitting duck for sellswords, freeriders, knights and scheming nobles. my life was so dangerous before and I didn't even know it! now, however, I have firebreathing dragons to guard me named Lugerys, Remingtonion, and Winchesteral! no one can ever harm me in my castle now!

[Ahimsa]

close but you didn't jizz all over yourself when you complimented the all-mighty George.

I especially like the Treasure of the Seirra Madres reference at the top though.

[Jaxom 1974]

Ease up on Jordan I think. The guy used to write good books (whilst Goodkind only ever wrote one middling book), and he hasn't used his much greater fame to promote his political and/or philosophical viewpoints (unlike Goodkind). Jordan is only mildly irritating when compared to the offenses of Goodkind.

I grant you your statement...I'm only pointing out that, for better or worse, Jordan tends to take a pounding around here...some of it is deserved, some is for show...yet for some reason, we don't hold Goodkind to the same standards. We merely call him crazy (again, not gonna argue that one)...

Just trying to make the playing field level...

[The Stranger]

okay, fair is fair: I read 9 jordan books before coming to my senses, because I really enjoyed the first 4. I read one Goodkind book because I needed something to do while I was busy earning my D+ in Pre-Calc, and I hated it.

i personally dislike Jordan more just because I once gave a damn about his writing. Goodkind's banal pretensions don't even pop up on my radar screen.

[Larry.]

Needless to say, I had to lift that link to the Goodkind masturbatory celebration thread and post it over at wotmania It's sad...I like to browse through a bunch of fantasy sites to look for the stupidest and weirdest fanboy moments...and I keep having to post Goodkind links because it's...just...gold.

Of course, I've seen some doozies over at wotmania for Jordan, but the Goodkind fans take the cake!

[The Stranger]

it's...just...gold.

heeyah hooohooo !

gold! gold! gold!

[MoP]

Churing out the same basic story over and over again isn't selling out? Giving the fans new books in succession with little to no character or plot development. This isn't a sign of selling out? Are those not qualities attributed to Mr. Jordan when he's accused of being a sellout?

Just curious...

(For the record, I sure as hell am not defending Goodkind...but if he's truly thevillan we believe him to be, then he should either take Jordan-like heat, or we'll have to ease up on Jordan)

Well, I don't think Jordan is a sellout either...quality has dropped immensely (or my tastes have matured - possibly both) but I don't think it's from selling out. To me, a sellout would be an author that churns out garbage that panders to the masses at a regular interval (i.e. yearly). I don't think that's Jordan...he may be tired of the WoT world, he may have made a rod for his own back with all the superfluous plot threads and I don't think he's the world's most talented writer but in all honesty I don't think he's a sellout.

Now, back to the purpose of this thread...Goodkind bashing. I'm just waiting for one of the people from that board to find out that a chunk of the rest of the fantasy board internet community is laughing at them. It should prove...amusing.

[Voland]

How has the SOT series changed or affected your life. Letters of insperation please

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well you get the gist from the title.

I want only serious letters of how this series has made a differance in your life.

How it has changed you for the better.

How it has inhanced who you are and how you life.

These will become part of a Book BTW.. so make them good!

Oh, and YES perks WILL be given out for the best letters... "SPECIAL" perks

Dear god, they're going to make a book of how Goodkind's writing changed peoples life for the better? Does the insanity never end

[Agulla]

I'm wondering, will those people at that Goodkind forum notice something strange with an increase in visits of "guests"? What will they think? Will they believe that more and more faithful have seen the light of their prophet/philosopher/seeker of the truth? Or will they find out, as MoP has suggested, that they are being visited just for the comedic value of their board?

So many questions unanswered. Who ever said that Terry Goodkind didn't make you think?

[MoP]

Well, it looks like the cogs are finally turning.

[mormont]

To begin with, Goodkind doesn't get as much criticism on this forum as Jordan for the same reason Kim Il Sung doesn't get as much criticism as George W Bush over on Misc. There's nothing to debate about the former in either case, because we don't expect anything better from them. We have no reason to.

We all know Goodkind is a hack with delusions. Once you've said that and taken the piss out of him for a few pages, there's nothing left to talk about. Nobody seriously contends he's anything else, and nobody expects him to write a good book. So when he doesn't, what's to write about? And when he goes on one of his egotrips, well again we expected that to happen, so what's to write about? Laugh at, yes, but you can only do that for so long. It doesn't sustain a thread, only debate does that.

Jordan gets debated because people will defend him, and because he once wrote some good stuff. There's a discussion to be had there, over whether it will all come right and where it all went wrong and how bad or good his stuff still is. With Terry, I have never in five years seen anyone defend any book past the first, and even then the debate tends to be whether it was average rather than awful. Never seen anyone claim it was actually good.

Now I'm going to read how Goodkind changed people's lives.

[Eurytus]

You know, reading those threads I couldn't help but be struck by how many of the posters had avatars or pictures in their sigs that contained....well.....stereotypically fantasy-type pictures. Elves, dragons or the like.

Now surely, since Terry's books are NOT fantasy, this should be frowned on.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Before reading Martin, I was a sixteen year old, callow high school student. [...]

these lessons were so important to me, I can't imagine living a single day without them! before I read Martin's masterful analysis of human psychology at the heights of medieval power, I used to walk through the streets skipping. now, I can see how my lack of Objectivism has made me a sitting duck for sellswords, freeriders, knights and scheming nobles. my life was so dangerous before and I didn't even know it! now, however, I have firebreathing dragons to guard me named Lugerys, Remingtonion, and Winchesteral! no one can ever harm me in my castle now!

Oh Stranger, stop reading my thoughts, you charming mind control bastard!

Except you forgot that part about how reading Martin cured me of my evil homo-sexual inclinations! I cried when I realized that my bedding practices were promoting communism, and vowed never to be weak again. No more muff-diving for me! It's good, wholesome, hetero-sexual poinking from now on! Thank you, George RR Martin!

[Krafus]

To those who wonder why Jordan gets bashed so much in comparaison to Goodkind... It's because Jordan used to write good books, and now has fallen so low, whereas Goodkind had (IMHO) two average books and since then it's been nothing but repetitive plots, bashing-on-readers'-heads philosophy, dull characters, etc.

[Lupigis]

Personally, I don't see why reading TG should be a life-altering experience. However, having read some of the posts in the linked thread, it's obvious that there are people out there who have been profoundly moved by TG's writings and feel that this has helped them change their life for the better. While I certainly think that TG is fair game for a bit of mocking, I also think that it's a bit petty to make fun of those of his readers who fore whatever teason feel that TG's books helped them change their life for the better.

OTOH, after a few stories of how TG has affected the lives of his readers, a poster pops in and utters this gem:

In all honesty, these are great stories to hear, and it’s good to hear people give encouraging words to these people too, but I know from my days as an SDA that as soon as people start giving tear jerking stories, other’s want to try and one-up them with their own because they want the recognition. And that’s pretty much the antithesis of the whole point Terry tries to get across in his book.

Truth is a sword to idiots, and life is meant to be lived only for yourself. Why? Because that’s where the logic behind truth will bring you. I’ll be no one’s fool, and I’ll not let the wool be pulled over my eyes simply because someone puts a gun to my head or pulls on the heart strings of every idiot around me and so they try to make me feel bad for doing things my own way.

This is the kind of backbone I’ve developed thanks to Terry’s books. Heh, maybe it’s my own naive fancy but I like to think of myself as the “stallion in the lions den†as was described of Richard in Stone of Tears in the Palace of the Prophets.

And another one agrees:

If someone were to post something here for sympathy, they are going to be very disappointed, lol

Now, that is deserving of some good mocking!

[Mme Erzulie]

I question the humanity and the sanity of those of you who have managed to actually finish one (or more! :sick: ) of Goodkind's books.

I was recommended this series by a friend and my brother, both of whom I normally trust to give sane and coherent advice. So I was expecting a good read and was favourably inclined to the man. Hadn't heard of him before, and so held no prejudice.

After five pages, I was stunned. Literally. I couldn't seem to decipher why anyone would publish the incoherent ramblings of a delusional junior high objectivist fanboy. Ok, maybe I didn't pick up on the objectivism that soon, but still. The prose was so awful and clumsy, it seemed on purpose. The plot was heinous, blatantly illogical and off-the-hinges. But when the dialogue kicked in, I tuned out. Worse drivel I had never read.

I could pull better shit out of my ass while hung-over and/or constipated if I could only sacrifice every last shred of dignity, intergrity and self respect. It would be more fitting if the acronym of the book were WTF instead of WFR.

I tried to soldier on, I tried to be strong, but a couple of hundred pages into the book, I caved in. I just couldn't bring myself to read another paragraph. It was so bloated, so contrived, so ridiculous, so unbelievably humourless and self-aggrandizing.

I did a thread over at the old board's other authors' forum, where I presented chosen (or, quite random, actually, it's easy pickings with Goodkind) paragraphs with sarcastic one-liners thrown in for good measure, inspired by MST3K. Seemed to get a good reception too, but it was lost in a hack attack of some sort. If you like, I might be willing to submit myself to the punishment that is Goodkind's writing again for your pleasure once more.

Going to read about his writing's life-altering abilities, now.

Cheers

Kid