TerraPrime Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 I never thought that "cliffhanger" can only be applied when lives are at stake? I thought it just meant that some part of the plot is in mid-act when the episode ends, leaving the audience to wonder about the resolution of that plot. I also don't think that the endings of the first two episodes were that cliffhanger-ish, myself. But to each his/her own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobin Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 "Cliffhangers" every episode of a series you know is going to continue is like sending a RedShirt with Kirk and Spock. You [i]know[/i] it's not going to be the two high dollar guys who get melted into a puddle of goo. Kinda takes the suspense out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darling Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 [quote name='TerraPrime' post='1519045' date='Sep 15 2008, 14.42']I never thought that "cliffhanger" can only be applied when lives are at stake? I thought it just meant that some part of the plot is in mid-act when the episode ends, leaving the audience to wonder about the resolution of that plot. I also don't think that the endings of the first two episodes were that cliffhanger-ish, myself. But to each his/her own.[/quote] True, I was limiting my thinking to these two episodes, when Sookie is in supposedly life-threatening situations at the conclusion of each episode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 [quote name='Tobin' post='1519088' date='Sep 15 2008, 17.03']"Cliffhangers" every episode of a series you know is going to continue is like sending a RedShirt with Kirk and Spock.[/quote] Lost and 24 seem to make a good go of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobin Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 [quote name='Ken Stone' post='1519108' date='Sep 15 2008, 18.14']Lost and 24 seem to make a good go of it.[/quote] LOST is just that - [i]lost[/i]. I dropped interest in it when the writers admitted that they didn't know where the series was going either. If there's no eventual goal - all you're doing is wandering around aimlessly. Sucks, the show had started with such good potential. 24 - my dad liked that show, I only caught part of a few episodes so I can't really talk with any education on it. I figured the idea was good and bad, I'd have to watch more to give a true review. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annelise Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 I'm not sure what the tone is supposed to be.. (I did laugh more this time than ep.1). I tend to agree that the cliche chars got better ep. 2. I had some complaints about cliche chars when Deadwood premired, too. As well, Rome was pretty crazy with the sex in the beginning. I'm going to guess that the show is building toward the idea that it's naive to accept the argument that vampires are just another race who just wants to live mainstream, like everybody else. That it could cost ya to be that naive 'cause they are still, at the end of the day, vampires, not mortals. Sure, there's vamps like Bill, who seems to want that, who is trying to choose that, but that's obviously not going to be representative of them all. Essentially, that the unpolitick preacher was right to some extent, and him and his family going missing is evidence of that. That Sam, Jason and Tara's reactions, if less extreme but still cautious, are not "wrong" either. No issue with the cliffhangers, I don't view them as trying to be real cliffhangers in the sense that "ooh, is she going to die?", but only how it works itself out and with what repercussions. It will only annoy me if they keep doing it the same way, with Sookie about to get beat on or whatnot. I saw that the vamp fangs are based off of snakes (present in the show's intro sequence). That the fangs spring forward when it's time to strike, etc. Just passing on what they're doing there, as I know some people didn't care for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHK for Darwin Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 [quote]Essentially, that the unpolitick preacher was right to some extent, and him and his family going missing is evidence of that. That Sam, Jason and Tara's reactions, if less extreme but still cautious, are not "wrong" either.[/quote] He may have been right and may be proven right, but thus far the show has presented everyone on that side of the fence as intolerant bigots and utter imbeciles. But ya know, there are some pretty damned legitimate arguments against the whole vampires in society thing. I mean shit, I expect Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell to be ballistic over the matter, but I'm pretty sure that even the dumbest of fundies could come up with better arguments to air on national cable news stations than 'I won't speak to this demon filth!' Its to the point of caricature. And fundies are damned hard to caricature because they're fucking absurd to begin with. So you know the show is failing pretty badly when they make the preachers more ridiculous than they already are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 I thought the pastor and his family were killed in a "freak accident" on a highway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annelise Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 [quote name='EHK for Obama' post='1519199' date='Sep 15 2008, 19.13']And fundies are damned hard to caricature because they're fucking absurd to begin with. So you know the show is failing pretty badly when they make the preachers more ridiculous than they already are.[/quote] I think maybe it suffered from pacing.. that they don't want anyone to demonstrate an effective counter-argument yet, so they sabatoged him a bit (like Bill Maher in his clip, some might argue). That said, I don't find it offensively ridiculous that, under those circumstances, a preacher would react like that .. someone who believes that vampires are the children of Satan and who thinks the mainstream is being terribly mislead/duped. Remains to be seen how they treat it in the show, but I wouldn't think his "vampires are the damned" POV would be a fringe one, by any means... gotta say, vampires showing up might well cause me to re-examine my beliefs, haha. And, judging by what Bill's said, they don't appear to want to share much knowledge about themselves. I think the the woman vampire we keep seeing in the news clips is supposed to be slick and talented. Put your best leg forward, as it were. I think she's intended to help sell you on that naive first impression, that the show is trying to get you to think they *are* just like everyone else. Or maybe I'm giving the show too much credit, dunno. I don't personally think they're going for the damned/child of satan explanation for vampires ultimately, I got the impression they were coming at it from a "darker side of nature" angle, or somesuch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annelise Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 [quote name='Ran' post='1519237' date='Sep 15 2008, 19.41']I thought the pastor and his family were killed in a "freak accident" on a highway?[/quote] Could be, yeah. I had it in my head that they met a suspicious end, as it were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 [quote name='Annelise' post='1519277' date='Sep 15 2008, 20.20']Could be, yeah. I had it in my head that they met a suspicious end, as it were.[/quote] As did I. It's damn convenient that they'd meet a freak accident after the news clip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHK for Darwin Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 [quote]but I wouldn't think his "vampires are the damned" POV would be a fringe one, by any means... gotta say, vampires showing up might well cause me to re-examine my beliefs, haha.[/quote] I'm not saying it would be a fringe one. But for that and petty bigotry to be the only arguments presented for that side is pretty damned silly. Opponents wouldn't be talking about 'special rights', they'd be raising shit like the fact they they're superpowered killers who've fed on mankind throughout history and we're supposed to accept that they're all cute and cuddly now cause they have a blood flavored energy drink? I'm sorry but the slickest, most competent lobbyist in the world couldn't make a good case for vampires and for the preacher and a neutered Bill Maher to be the best that blonde chick comes up against is stretching it a bit too far. And what's this crap about keeping the strengths and weaknesses secret? We've had vampire stories filling our books and cinema's for a century or more, every conceivable power they could have has been presented in fiction and I have no doubt that if vampires became a reality, alot of people would assume the worst on those sorts of powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 [quote name='EHK for Obama' post='1519300' date='Sep 15 2008, 19.39']I'm not saying it would be a fringe one. But for that and petty bigotry to be the only arguments presented for that side is pretty damned silly. Opponents wouldn't be talking about 'special rights', they'd be raising shit like the fact they they're superpowered killers who've fed on mankind throughout history and we're supposed to accept that they're all cute and cuddly now cause they have a blood flavored energy drink? I'm sorry but the slickest, most competent lobbyist in the world couldn't make a good case for vampires and for the preacher and a neutered Bill Maher to be the best that blonde chick comes up against is stretching it a bit too far. And what's this crap about keeping the strengths and weaknesses secret? We've had vampire stories filling our books and cinema's for a century or more, every conceivable power they could have has been presented in fiction and I have no doubt that if vampires became a reality, alot of people would assume the worst on those sorts of powers.[/quote] Here is the thing. Right now there are no known cases of Vampires biting people. If suddenly we found out Vampires are real could we really freak out about it, when there are no cases of them doing anything? They could say that they have been living on wild animal blood all this time and what could anyone say about it? Also don't forget that Bill mentioned the power of influence (glamor, I think he called it). Maybe some Vampires can do it through the TV screen and are using it to keep people from getting too violent. What I don't get is why aren't you ranting about Sookie. She can read minds. You know how much money could be making doing cons and stuff? Here she is a waitress though. Isn't that as unrealistic as the vampire shit? Why do you have a problem suspending your disbelief with some of the fantastical elements of the story, but not others? ETA: For me the idea of there being vampires is as unbelievable as the idea that they would be accepted into society, or that someone can read minds, or whatever. The concept of "realism" just doesn't equate into my enjoyment of the series. I've accepted the fact that it isn't realistic. None of it is. That is why picking and choosing the stuff you find unrealistic seems absurd to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 [quote name='Ken Stone' post='1519314' date='Sep 15 2008, 20.57']ETA: For me the idea of there being vampires is as unbelievable as the idea that they would be accepted into society, or that someone can read minds, or whatever. The concept of "realism" just doesn't equate into my enjoyment of the series. I've accepted the fact that it isn't realistic. None of it is. That is why picking and choosing the stuff you find unrealistic seems absurd to me.[/quote] Star Wars is teh suck cuz of sounds in outer space! You can't heer in outerspaces! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EHK for Darwin Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 This isn't so much an argument on the lack of realism. I knew they had no interest in that 5 minutes into the first episode. But if a show is gonna get all preachy on me, the heavy handed metaphors they're clubbing me over the head with better fucking work. And they don't here, not by a long shot. If you're gonna use a show for a political argument, it sometimes helps to make sure the sides are adequately represented. The anti-vamps can do a bit better than bigotry for bigotry's sake, which is about all they're given at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annelise Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 [quote name='Ken Stone' post='1519314' date='Sep 15 2008, 20.57']I've accepted the fact that it isn't realistic.[/quote] Yeah, I think they said the vampires came out of the coffin 2 years ago? And the VRA is evidently on the inside track already? :lol: That's quite an American record. That was the preacher/pastor's best point IMO, whether intentional or unintentional by the show. My husband has a bit of issue with Anna Paquin's acting.. or Sookie, depending on your POV. Some scenes he says.. people just don't act/react that way. I know Sookie is supposed to be weird due to her telepathy, and Bill is a refreshing novelty but sometimes it does seem like Pacquin is trying too hard to convey things, it's awkward. I don't know if I'm just unused to the character or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Stone Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 [quote name='EHK for Obama' post='1519359' date='Sep 15 2008, 20.44']This isn't so much an argument on the lack of realism. I knew they had no interest in that 5 minutes into the first episode. But if a show is gonna get all preachy on me, the heavy handed metaphors they're clubbing me over the head with better fucking work. And they don't here, not by a long shot. If you're gonna use a show for a political argument, it sometimes helps to make sure the sides are adequately represented. The anti-vamps can do a bit better than bigotry for bigotry's sake, which is about all they're given at the moment.[/quote] What you see as attempts at preachiness I see as attempts at humor. When the pastor was on TV spewing bigotry I wasn't offended because he was right to be bigoted. Instead I thought the absurdity of the rest of society treating him like a bigot was funny. I don't think the show is trying to make the preachy point that you think it is. I think it is trying to be absurd. Sort of like this: "Why did the chicken cross the road?" "Why?" "To get to the other side" "What the fsck is that supposed to mean? Chickens don't know what roads are? Why the hell would they want to cross them? They have no concept of roads! Chickens just scratch and peck at the stupid ground! All they do is eat, peck, and lay eggs! They don't care about roads! Also the analogy you are making about immigrants rings completely false because immigrants use our schools and that costs us tax money!" Like I said, I think you are reading too much into the show. It's not deep, it's just supposed to be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The talking head segments remind me of nothing less than Frank Miller's over-the-top media satire in [i]The Dark Knight Returns[/i]. I don't think you're supposed to take it seriously, EHK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerraPrime Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 [quote name='Ran' post='1519927' date='Sep 16 2008, 09.42']The talking head segments remind me of nothing less than Frank Miller's over-the-top media satire in [i]The Dark Knight Returns[/i]. I don't think you're supposed to take it seriously, EHK.[/quote] Or the promotions in [i]Starship Troopers[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awesome possum Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The show has been enjoyable so far. For what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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