Twilight

[Whitestripe]

Keeble certainly does have an interesting take on the book. The thing that gets me is that Meyer is no genius, the whole "appealing to tweens" is, if you believe her, a complete accident. A stroke of marketing genius on Little Brown's part but a complete accident on Meyer's part. She claims that she didn't write with YA in mind, but just wanted to tell a story. I totally believe it when Keeble says Meyer is writing straight from her id.

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='Max the Mostly Mediocre' post='1616689' date='Dec 12 2008, 13.20']One smiles, says, "Hi!"
I scowl at my shoes and mumble, "Go to hell".
"What?"
"Go to hell."
She gasps and runs off, her friend in tow.[/quote]

You screwed up there no doubt about that. But at least you were able to put a coherent sentence together.

[quote name='Lady Whitestripe' post='1616761' date='Dec 12 2008, 14.23']She claims that she didn't write with YA in mind, but just wanted to tell a story. I totally believe it when Keeble says Meyer is writing straight from her id.[/quote]

Yeah right. She writes about a 17-year old girl falling for a drop-dead gorgeous vampire and it isn't for YA girls? Pull the other one Meyer.

Don't you mean she is writing from her cousin Id? :rolleyes:

[Adelle Tully]

I've not read the books and I've vaguely thought about reading them...mostly during my 7 hour wait at the hospital with absolutely NOTHING to do while I was generally incapable of expressing my needs and/or desires verbally (I'm thinking this might have been a good thing).

However, I've heard the adds for it on the radio while I've been in the car on the way to somewhere and I cringe at the acting (and probably writing as well for all I know). The girl [u]sounds[/u] like she's just spitting the lines out as quickly as she possibly can.

Line 1"I know what you are"
His line: "Say it"
Line 2 "Vampire"

Now rehearse this making line 1 and 2 approximately 3 times faster in cadence than His line and you've got what I hear so often on the radio...don't forget to add the snivling wannabe fear/awe in her voice.

If this is supposed to be a romantic movie, I might want to see it in slow motion so her lines sound reasonable.

[Balefont]

I finished it yesterday and while I'm totally looking forward to having the time to right up a full 'review' or thesis on the appeal to the fan base, I will take this time to throw this out there: I can totally see why young girls are swooning over the Edward character. A lot of it comes down to sexual tension - safe sexual tension at that.

All the scenes where Edward and Bella are in close physical contact, the character of Edward is in no rush to get Bella in the sack. Instead he takes the time to kiss her, whisper to her, swoon her and woo her. Bella reacts hungrily and without guilt or fear of being labelled a slut. As soon as Bella does this, Edward shuts it down because he can't trust himself [not to eat her]. The pressure of sex from the male on the female is absent and the female is the one actually in control of how far she is willing to go because [i]she chooses[/i] it.

So you've got all the tension, the romance, the swooning and it's all guilt/shame free making this theme even more of a fantasy than the vampirism.

[Whitestripe]

[quote name='Balefont' post='1617415' date='Dec 12 2008, 12.35']I finished it yesterday and while I'm totally looking forward to having the time to right up a full 'review' or thesis on the appeal to the fan base, I will take this time to throw this out there: I can totally see why young girls are swooning over the Edward character. A lot of it comes down to sexual tension - safe sexual tension at that.

All the scenes where Edward and Bella are in close physical contact, the character of Edward is in no rush to get Bella in the sack. Instead he takes the time to kiss her, whisper to her, swoon her and woo her. Bella reacts hungrily and without guilt or fear of being labelled a slut. As soon as Bella does this, Edward shuts it down because he can't trust himself [not to eat her]. The pressure of sex from the male on the female is absent and the female is the one actually in control of how far she is willing to go because [i]she chooses[/i] it.

So you've got all the tension, the romance, the swooning and it's all guilt/shame free making this theme even more of a fantasy than the vampirism.[/quote]

But why aren't more girls freaked out by Edward's stalking her? Why is sneaking into her window to watch her sleep romantic and not creepy? Why is being so obsessively controlling romantic and not creepy? When you read the books Edward is constantly lifting and carrying her like she is small child. He is constantly wrapping his arm around her waist and pulling her in the direction he wants her to go. What makes that good and not bad?

[loathsome warg]

I just finished reading Twilight a couple of days ago, after hearing about all this hype. Blech. :sick:

I usually don't mind some fluff, especially since I'm just reading for fun during my Christmas break after one hell of a first term of my MA degree, but when the writing style is that bad the fluff just isn't as entertaining. I'll be the first to admit that I can be a romantic fangirl swooning over Mr. Darcy, but at least P&P had some good dialogue!

I'm definitely not reading the next 3 books. I usually don't like giving up on books so easily, but if I have to read the descriptions "grimaced," "chuckled," or "his eyes narrowed" 19172075 times per page then I'm going to give up on a series.

Note: It was recommended to me by my 16-year-old co-worker who is what my boss and I call a "bubblegum snapper." Not to degrade those who liked it of course :P

[Balefont]

[quote name='Lady Whitestripe' post='1617472' date='Dec 12 2008, 13.36']But why aren't more girls freaked out by Edward's stalking her? Why is sneaking into her window to watch her sleep romantic and not creepy? Why is being so obsessively controlling romantic and not creepy? When you read the books Edward is constantly lifting and carrying her like she is small child. He is constantly wrapping his arm around her waist and pulling her in the direction he wants her to go. What makes that good and not bad?[/quote]

Easy: The Center of the Universe/White Knight syndrome

ETA: Warg, you almost forgot the "crooked smile", "cold" "stoney" "marble-like skin", "adonis" and "beautiful". If you cut out the continual use of these descriptors after one use, the book would only be about 20 pages long.

[loathsome warg]

[quote name='Balefont' post='1617564' date='Dec 12 2008, 14.55']ETA: Warg, you almost forgot the "crooked smile", "cold" "stoney" "marble-like skin", "adonis" and "beautiful". If you cut out the continual use of these descriptors after one use, the book would only be about 20 pages long.[/quote]


LOL I also think that if Edward had been not so beautiful he would've been hotter and there would've been more tension. But hell, I've got the phantom of the opera as my userpic so that might explain my preferences a bit more... :P

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Middle School girls asked me to read the book, so I am trying it out. Man this thing is horrid. I am fifty pages in and so far all I get is her wandering from class to class with NO description. Just exposition, ALL TELLING, no showing, etc. And this freaky Edward guy who apparently is going to "sparkle" soon? Fuck.

The emo kids hate Twilight for the record. They think it's bullshit. All the rest of the girls in the middle school love it. Emo 6th graders like it too. I think the only girls who don't like it are the Emo 8th graders. They're kind of rebelling against the system and are able to see it for the shit it truly is.

On the flip side I'm the "coolest" 29 year old male teacher because I'm reading this book. When the girls start gushing over Edward during class or something, I'll start throwing out my own gushing too. It silences things real quick.

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='Balefont' post='1617415' date='Dec 13 2008, 06.35']I finished it yesterday and while I'm totally looking forward to having the time to right up a full 'review' or thesis on the appeal to the fan base, I will take this time to throw this out there: I can totally see why young girls are swooning over the Edward character. A lot of it comes down to sexual tension - safe sexual tension at that.

So you've got all the tension, the romance, the swooning and it's all guilt/shame free making this theme even more of a fantasy than the vampirism.[/quote]

So you're basically in the Keeble school of thought on this.

[quote name='Simon of Steele' post='1617963' date='Dec 13 2008, 19.09']Middle School girls asked me to read the book, so I am trying it out. Man this thing is horrid. I am fifty pages in and so far all I get is her wandering from class to class with NO description. Just exposition, ALL TELLING, no showing, etc. And this freaky Edward guy who apparently is going to "sparkle" soon? Fuck.

On the flip side I'm the "coolest" 29 year old male teacher because I'm reading this book. When the girls start gushing over Edward during class or something, I'll start throwing out my own gushing too. It silences things real quick.[/quote]

I think you reading the first book is a good idea. You can then tell them what a steaming pile of crap the book is and hopefully get them to tone down their excessive devotion. Had you not read the book then they could accuse you of judging a book by it's cover, and they could ignore any criticism you might level. I like that I've read the first book because I can tell my friends and family that the book is shit and they can't accuse me of dismissing it without having tried it. So they have to take my heaping scorn on the book, and making fun of their fandom, and there is nothing they can come back at me with. Because they cannot show me one redeeming feature of the work. It's great!

[Balefont]

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1618090' date='Dec 13 2008, 07.38']So you're basically in the Keeble school of thought on this.[/quote]

As in I don't like it but I understand it? To an extent, yes, and I'm planning on reading the rest of the books to get the full perspective. In the meantime I'm feverishly looking for books and movies for the teen girls I can use in conversation to counter Twilight. On the movie front I have a full arsenal. But I'm having a tough time literature wise trying to find suitable replacements that are easier for the young girl to digest than Jane Austin yet not the repetitive, clunky drivel presented in Twilight. I'm open to any suggestions.

Oh yeah, and in continuance from my earlier posits with respect to "safe sexual tension", we mustn't forget also that the Edward character is a mature '17 year old'. How many 17 year old, or teen boys for that matter, act so 'grown up'? Again, a mature 17 year old boy is another fantasy element of the story. :D

I'm dying to read more about Twimoms tho. That whole scene [i]freaks[/i] me the fuck out. Ew.

[Whitestripe]

[quote name='Balefont' post='1618890' date='Dec 14 2008, 10.37']I'm dying to read more about Twimoms tho. That whole scene [i]freaks[/i] me the fuck out. Ew.[/quote]


Apparently they have their own message board. www.twilightmoms.com
:ack:

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

[quote]As in I don't like it but I understand it? To an extent, yes, and I'm planning on reading the rest of the books to get the full perspective. In the meantime I'm feverishly looking for books and movies for the teen girls I can use in conversation to counter Twilight. On the movie front I have a full arsenal. But I'm having a tough time literature wise trying to find suitable replacements that are easier for the young girl to digest than Jane Austin yet not the repetitive, clunky drivel presented in Twilight. I'm open to any suggestions.[/quote]

Un Lun Dun? *shrug*

[Balefont]

[quote name='Max the Mostly Mediocre' post='1619600' date='Dec 14 2008, 21.07']Un Lun Dun? *shrug*[/quote]

Thanks, Max. I'll give it a shot.

And, er, thanks?, Skunky. I am willing to admit. I am afeared of venturing forth to said domain. < shivers >

ETA: Sweet Jesus, the HORROR! The poster of the very first topic I opened has an avatar which says: "I'm having trouble dealing with the fact that Edward Cullen is a fictional character." o.O

[Fighter]

[url="http://www.journalfen.net/community/sparklefield/5726.html"]http://www.journalfen.net/community/sparklefield/5726.html[/url]

You know you want one.

[Whitestripe]

[quote name='Fighter' post='1619902' date='Dec 15 2008, 13.09'][url="http://www.journalfen.net/community/sparklefield/5726.html"]http://www.journalfen.net/community/sparklefield/5726.html[/url]

You know you want one.[/quote]

Oh shit! I just spat coffee on my keyboard laughing at that bedding set.

Yes, TwiMoms.com is a bit of a horror show, isn't it?

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='Balefont' post='1618890' date='Dec 15 2008, 04.37']Oh yeah, and in continuance from my earlier posits with respect to "safe sexual tension", we mustn't forget also that the Edward character is a mature '17 year old'. How many 17 year old, or teen boys for that matter, act so 'grown up'? Again, a mature 17 year old boy is another fantasy element of the story. :D[/quote]
That really is taking the fantasy to extreme lengths. The guy is a >100 year old vampire masquerading as a 17-year old highskool student. And apart from trying his darndest to not eat her (in order to stay true to the ideals he has been trying to live by for the last 100 years or so) which people seem to construe as allegorical of chastity, there isn't all that much mature about the fellow.

People the allegory is of addiction, not chastity!

I can see the "mature 17 year old" fantasy lasting up to the point where you find out he's an old codger in a young body. Bad enough a 17 year old watching you sleep at night, but a 100 year old dirty old man looking at you and thinking about you as if you were his favourite variety of pie...shivers




[quote name='Lady Whitestripe' post='1620072' date='Dec 16 2008, 09.31'][quote name='Fighter' post='1619902' date='Dec 16 2008, 07.09']
[url="http://www.journalfen.net/community/sparklefield/5726.html"]http://www.journalfen.net/community/sparklefield/5726.html[/url]

You know you want one.[/quote]

Oh shit! I just spat coffee on my keyboard laughing at that bedding set.

Yes, TwiMoms.com is a bit of a horror show, isn't it?
[/quote]

Beautiful. I have to send that to my own little group of twimoms whom I know.

[Nymeria Sand]

The only reason I am reading this is because my daughter is, and I want to know what she's up to. Personally, I think it's trash, but I can see why teens like it so much. I've finished the second book and I'm not impressed.

If I had a nickel for every time Bella described Edward as "beautiful", "a god", "Adonis", etc. ad infintum, I'd be rich. I was like, "Okay, I get it already!"

I can understand why teens like this story, I really can. Maybe it's me, but it reads like a very long fanfiction, and I wonder if Meyer is stuck in some adolescent fantasy of her perfect man. I get the impression that Bella is supposed to be Meyer with Edward as her dream guy. Bad boy indeed. It's a bodice ripper for pre-teens and teens, only no Johanna Lindsey novel was ever this bad.

Her relationship with Jacob is beyond belief. Really, is there anyone in Forks that's not a monster?

In the second book, I wanted to slap Bella silly. She is really playing with Jacob. She's just using him--she doesn't care about him and she has no intention of ever being with him. She knows how he feels about her and yet she's still willing to twist the knife. Her friend Mike had it right. "Girls are cruel."

Even my daughter was ticked at Bella in New Moon. We're having long talks about these books as we go along--I think Edward is controlling and borderline misogynistic, and Jacob is getting there. In the meantime, Bella doesn't even have a mind of her own. She allows Edward's leaving to drive her into such a severe depression that her father was right to worry about putting her in the hospital. It's like the only message here is, "You're not complete without a man. If you don't have one, your life isn't worth living."

To give my daughter some credit, she does realize that this is fiction and that Edward is not a real person. She also realizes that he's the embodiment of what girls [i]think[/i] the perfect man is all about, but that doesn't mean that real life men will ever measure up to that simply because it isn't real. Thank goodness. She's showing some sense. :)

I don't understand what it is about Bella that makes all these guys fall in love with her--which of course is every young girl's fantasy. She has no ambition, no social life, and no personality. Maybe that's what made her ripe to fall in love with Edward in the first place. I think the point Meyer may have been trying to make is that she doesn't truly belong to the human world, but it doesn't come across very well.

Her damsel in distress act got very annoying very quickly. I don't see a single strong female character anywhere--except for maybe Alice. (I really like her!)

Vampire baseball. Vampire baseball?!? I just burst out laughing at that point, it was so absurd. I know the point is to show the human side of the vampires and to set up the whole James thing, but really. Vampire baseball?!

Maybe I'm being too harsh? I can understand why teens like this series and maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective. I just see some things in here that maybe aren't so good for young girls to learn.

I think writing from the first person perspective is one of Meyer's biggest mistakes. Third person omniscient might have come off much better.

[quote]That Stephanie Meyers has said that Edward is at least partially based on Mr. Darcy makes me want to hurt her; badly.[/quote]
I'll help you. :) Darcy is Love in a Fictional Format incarnate. He has no equal as far as that goes. For her to even compare the two is blasphemy.

[quote]One of the things that is so frustrating about the book is the authors use of adjectives and adverbs.[/quote]
Absolutely agree. It was really irritating and I wanted to get Meyer a thesaurus.

[Balefont]

[quote name='Nymeria Sand' post='1628853' date='Dec 23 2008, 11.55']In the second book, I wanted to slap Bella silly. She is really playing with Jacob. She's just using him--she doesn't care about him and she has no intention of ever being with him. She knows how he feels about her and yet she's still willing to twist the knife. Her friend Mike had it right. "Girls are cruel."

Even my daughter was ticked at Bella in New Moon. We're having long talks about these books as we go along--I think Edward is controlling and borderline misogynistic, and Jacob is getting there. In the meantime, Bella doesn't even have a mind of her own. She allows Edward's leaving to drive her into such a severe depression that her father was right to worry about putting her in the hospital. It's like the only message here is, "You're not complete without a man. If you don't have one, your life isn't worth living."[/quote]

:agree: Ugh, neighborgirl and I were talking about this tripe yesterday.

[quote]To give my daughter some credit, she does realize that this is fiction and that Edward is not a real person. She also realizes that he's the embodiment of what girls [i]think[/i] the perfect man is all about, but that doesn't mean that real life men will ever measure up to that simply because it isn't real.[/quote]

Yeah, the perfect man = controlling, obsessive, possessive, manipulating, etc. How [i]else[/i] can a girl really [i]know[/i] a man loves her?

I'm glad your daughter has a good head on her shoulders. I fear those girls that seek out these types of relationships and ending up being women stuck in abusive relationships. "It's okay. He does it because he [i]loves [/i]me. He just wants me to be [i]safe[/i]. I guess I'll just have to give up all my other friends except for those he approves of for me. He must really, [i]truly[/i] love me to care about these details of my life. He wants me all to himself. He's a grown up - he knows what I need so I don't have to."

[quote]I don't understand what it is about Bella that makes all these guys fall in love with her--which of course is every young girl's fantasy. She has no ambition, no social life, and no personality. Maybe that's what made her ripe to fall in love with Edward in the first place. I think the point Meyer may have been trying to make is that she doesn't truly belong to the human world, but it doesn't come across very well.

Her damsel in distress act got very annoying very quickly. I don't see a single strong female character anywhere--except for maybe Alice. (I really like her!)[/quote]
I don't really get the mystique of Bella's attraction, either. No redeeming qualities except for a slightly sarcastic sense of humor but that isn't enough to make people around you instantly want to be your friend/boyfriend. I think the character of Bella is attractive to readers because she is so hollow it allows the reader to slip inside her skin as their own (and therefore the reader may experience life vicariously through Bella). On the flip sice, maybe by living vicariously through Bella, young girls can experience what NOT to do.

[quote]Vampire baseball. Vampire baseball?!? I just burst out laughing at that point, it was so absurd. I know the point is to show the human side of the vampires and to set up the whole James thing, but really. Vampire baseball?![/quote]

Yeah, you should see the movie version of it. I laughed till I cried.

[quote]Maybe I'm being too harsh? I can understand why teens like this series and maybe I'm looking at it from the wrong perspective. I just see some things in here that maybe aren't so good for young girls to learn.[/quote]

Too harsh? No way. So far, I think it glorifies an unhealthy relationship(s). Maybe we should look at this as a opportunity to have an open dialogue with our daughters, cousins, students, nieces, etc. about the pitfalls such relationships and discuss the warning signs on how to avoid them from getting too far. There are too many young women out there that desire the feeling of getting swept off their feet that they're willing to settle for anyone that can make them feel that way - even if its at the expense of everything else.

[quote]I think writing from the first person perspective is one of Meyer's biggest mistakes. Third person omniscient might have come off much better.

I'll help you. :) Darcy is Love in a Fictional Format incarnate. He has no equal as far as that goes. For her to even compare the two is blasphemy.[/quote]

:agree: The first person enhances the creepy factor to author-wank-session.

[quote]It was really irritating and I wanted to [b]get Meyer a thesaurus[/b].[/quote]

That was the one good thing about the second book: Barely any Edward = less "marble-like skin", "crooked smile, "narrowed eyes"

[Shryke]

Agreed Balefront. Probably the main reason I find the series so offensive. The type of relationship it idealises are the kind that almost always turn violent to one degree or another. And even when it doesn't, it's just generally unhealthy for both parties.