ghostdance Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Balefont' post='1639211' date='Jan 6 2009, 07.14']:agree: This is sound advice. Cleanse the palate before Bakker.[/quote] Ok, this thread has been very helpful, and has me so intrigued. I am going to the bookstore now and buying whichever is there, and both if they are both there. If they are both there, I'm reading Snow Crash first for a change, but I'm also looking to see what all the Bakker fuss is (both good and bad). This board rocks. I will report back here when I get back from the store... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghostdance Posted January 6, 2009 Author Share Posted January 6, 2009 I got "The Darkness that Comes Before" from the bookstore, and my wife is getting me "Snow Crash" from the library. I'm still interested to hear more opinions- seems I've come upon two authors with loyal followings that don't always overlap- this was not my intent, but I like that a lot. In the bookstore I noticed Stephenson wrote something called" Quicksilver"- this has been on my bookshelf for over a year (my wife picked it up and didn't read it). Anybody like this or should I 100% start with Snow Crash to delve into Stephenson? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. X Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='ghostdance' post='1639557' date='Jan 6 2009, 12.37']In the bookstore I noticed Stephenson wrote something called" Quicksilver"- this has been on my bookshelf for over a year (my wife picked it up and didn't read it). Anybody like this or should I 100% start with Snow Crash to delve into Stephenson?[/quote] Start with [i]Snow Crash[/i]. [i]Quicksilver[/i] is the beginning of Stephenson's three-volume Baroque Cycle which has a word count that boggles the entire mind. Also, [i]Quicksilver[/i] takes a long time to get interesting, while [i]Snow Crash[/i] starts out with one of the greatest opening chapters in SF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 Quicksilver is the first book of the Baroque Cycle trilogy discussed here - the next two are The Confusion and System of the World. Cryptonomicon is loosely tied since many of the family names reoccur, despite the hundreds of years between the two. He also has a new book called Anathem. Just read Snow Crash. The Baroque Cycle is much slower reading and not nearly as fun as Snow Crash, although like I mentioned, it's probably my favorite series/books of all time. The first 100 pages or so, though, is really, really slow going and many people never get through them. Snow Crash is what put Stephenson on the map. It's a classic. AA - Let's just put it like this. There are people who can type "read the movements of my soul" without throwing up a little bit and people who can't. The latter group tends not to like Bakker. ETA: Agree with X that Snow Crash has a fantastic and gripping opening chapter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. X Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Raidne' post='1639578' date='Jan 6 2009, 12.54']ETA: Agree with X that Snow Crash has a fantastic and gripping opening chapter.[/quote] One of the English teachers where I work has an anthology of short fiction which includes the first chapter of [i]Snow Crash[/i] as a standalone. I was very excited when I saw that. Too bad he doesn't actually use it in class. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Other-in-law Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I've read almost everything of Stephenson's except some his very early books, and loved them all. I've tried to read [i]'The Darkness that came Before'[/i] maybe three times now, and I just can't manage to get into it. I have to assume that there is something rewarding there since so many intelligent people recommend it, but I haven't found it yet. Being a big aSoIaF fan, I'm not sure that I buy the assurances that 'if you like Martin, you'll love Bakker' are correct. One difference seems to be humour. Martin and Stephenson mix in a healthy dose of hilarious moments, amid the gruesomeness and tension. I haven't encountered any humour in Bakker at all yet. Does it get better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='mashiara' post='1639380' date='Jan 6 2009, 16.24']I'm finding the Cryptonomicon to be amazingly complex. That doesn't mean I don't like it, quite the contrary. It's brilliant at times.. I'll probably go on to read the Baroque Cycle at some point after I'm done. Maybe I'll even get to reading Snow Crash as well, who knows. I recommended Bakker based on what I thought the OP would like more based on what authors he had read before.[/quote]I didn't mean it was bad, just that it's different. Snow Crash is pure unadulterated fun, is lightweight, fast to read and matches the OP's taste since he has no aversion to SF. Considering the OP mostly liked escapist (for lack of a better term) fantasy, even if Bakker meets the fantasy criteria, I'm really not certain it will match his tastes better than Stephenson. [quote name='Azor Ahai' post='1639389' date='Jan 6 2009, 16.34']I haven't read any of Stephenson's work, so I've no basis for comparison. I'm curious however, because we've drawn very different impressions of Bakker's work, re: book of inflated, poorly realized, clumsily written ideas. Could you expand on this?[/quote]Bakker is very divisive in that he tries to write a fantasy story that goes past escapism and purposefully disturbs the reader to make him question himself. As such, he tries to put many layers of meaning in the text, the writing itself can seem real dry, and the protagonists can be unsympathetic. I myself think that the Prince of Nothing is fantastic and has some of the best characterisation in fantasy, but as you see it isn't the opinion of everyone. SPOILER: for those who have read PoNNo, Khellus is not the hero and you are not supposed to like him We can't really say if you will like it, without knowing more about what (kind of) books you like and which you dislike, as it is the list you gave is short and only contains standard, run of the mill fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Other-in-law' post='1639588' date='Jan 6 2009, 13.03']I've read almost everything of Stephenson's except some his very early books, and loved them all. I've tried to read [i]'The Darkness that came Before'[/i] maybe three times now, and I just can't manage to get into it. I have to assume that there is something rewarding there since so many intelligent people recommend it, but I haven't found it yet. Being a big aSoIaF fan, I'm not sure that I buy the assurances that 'if you like Martin, you'll love Bakker' are correct. One difference seems to be humour. Martin and Stephenson mix in a healthy dose of hilarious moments, amid the gruesomeness and tension. I haven't encountered any humour in Bakker at all yet. Does it get better?[/quote] Well, it certainly doesn't get any funnier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Ent Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Shryke' post='1639606' date='Jan 6 2009, 19.14']Well, it certainly doesn't get any funnier.[/quote] Wait-wait, isn’t there are bawdy jest exchanged between Kelly and Akka at the camp in volume 2? ETA: But maybe PoN [i]would[/i] have been better if Kelly had a witty sidekick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 I can't stand Stephenson, to the point where ill never pick up another one of his books, EVER. i read Snow Crash and Cryptonomicon and donated them both to a local library. LOVE Bakker, on the other hand. So when i say go with Bakker you know im incredibly biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Other-in-law' post='1639588' date='Jan 6 2009, 19.03']One difference seems to be humour. Martin and Stephenson mix in a healthy dose of hilarious moments, amid the gruesomeness and tension. I haven't encountered any humour in Bakker at all yet. Does it get better?[/quote]Humour-wise, not really, as far as I can remember, but I think you would like [i]The Thousandfold Thought[/i] more than the two others still, it's when Khellus becomes human or at least when you notice it (but you don't stop hating him anyway, of course), it's when Akka kicks ass, shit happens, and Cnaïur kicks even more ass, amidst all the plot resolution and new angles on the character's personalities and the world building, magic especially. Still, maybe even less humour than before, it's dark and tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Raidne Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Mr. X' post='1639587' date='Jan 6 2009, 13.01']One of the English teachers where I work has an anthology of short fiction which includes the first chapter of [i]Snow Crash[/i] as a standalone. I was very excited when I saw that. Too bad he doesn't actually use it in class. :([/quote] One of my friends actually [i]was[/i] assigned Snow Crash in his high school literature class as one of two options. Crazy, huh? ETA: Yet another thing that would never in a million years possibly happen with The Darkness that Comes Before. Great title there - because I'd really like to know. Before what? Before a really awesome and entertaining plot? I suspect it's just the Darkness that Comes Before Even Darker Dark Darkness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Raidne' post='1639624' date='Jan 6 2009, 19.23']Yet another thing that would never in a million years possibly happen with The Darkness that Comes Before. Great title there - because I'd really like to know. Before what? Before a really awesome and entertaining plot? I suspect it's just the Darkness that Comes Before Even Darker Dark Darkness.[/quote]Oh, now you're just mean :P It's before the self, the feelings, the present. Khellus uses it all the time to look down his nose on humanity, as he knows what drives them (what comes before) so he knows what they are (what comes after) and how to drive them. The "darkness" who knows, could be him, could be the no-god, could be figurative for the dark times that shaped the whole story (why khellus is there at all) or for the nature of men... I bet Triskele or Happy Ent have a good theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shryke Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Raidne' post='1639624' date='Jan 6 2009, 13.23']One of my friends actually [i]was[/i] assigned Snow Crash in his high school literature class as one of two options. Crazy, huh? ETA: Yet another thing that would never in a million years possibly happen with The Darkness that Comes Before. Great title there - because I'd really like to know. Before what? Before a really awesome and entertaining plot? I suspect it's just the Darkness that Comes Before Even Darker Dark Darkness.[/quote] I suspect you weren't paying attention when reading the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Errant Bard' post='1639645' date='Jan 6 2009, 13.37']The "darkness" who knows, could be him, could be the no-god, could be figurative for the dark times that shaped the whole story (why khellus is there at all) or for the nature of men... I bet Triskele or Happy Ent have a good theory.[/quote] I attributed the Darkness to ignorance and a collective lack of self awareness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 After [i]Snow Crash[/i] (actually, right in the middle of [i]Snow Crash[/i]), Stephenson began the long, arduous journey of crawling towards, and eventually disappearing up, his own rectum. Not that I didn't love [i]Snow Crash[/i] and enjoy [i]Cryptonomicon[/i] (because I did. Conversely, I hated [i]Diamond Age[/i]), but once he got to that gilded turd known as the [i]Baroque Cycle[/i], I gave up. Didn't even bother with [i]Anathem[/i]. So, read [i]Snow Crash[/i] first because it's a break from standard fantasy and a standalone novel. Then read Bakker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Xray the Enforcer' post='1639658' date='Jan 6 2009, 13.45']After [i]Snow Crash[/i] (actually, right in the middle of [i]Snow Crash[/i]), Stephenson began the long, arduous journey of crawling towards, and eventually disappearing up, his own rectum.[/quote] Haha, i totally agree. But that didnt spare either books for me. I didnt like how i felt in his asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errant Bard Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Relic' post='1639654' date='Jan 6 2009, 19.41']I attributed the Darkness to ignorance and a collective lack of self awareness.[/quote]Ah, yes, what shapes the non-dunyain. Simple and effective, nice one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xray the Enforcer Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 [quote name='Relic' post='1639662' date='Jan 6 2009, 13.47']I didnt like how i felt in his asshole.[/quote] :rofl: In context or out, this is priceless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted January 6, 2009 Share Posted January 6, 2009 First, ask yourself this question; What is Best in Life? If your answer is similar to Conan's, then you will love [i]The Prince of Nothing.[/i] Bakker has created a world that's woeful, gruesome, despicable, terrifying, hopeless, and full of evil, conniving, unsympathetic, psychopathic, characters. If you can get over the fact that you don't necessarily have to like anyone, then I think you may enjoy it. Personally, I thought it was brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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