Dollhouse

[Mexal]

[quote name='Jon AS' post='1728650' date='Mar 21 2009, 13.54']I remember that on the commentary to BSG's "wonderful" boxing episode it was mentioned that the actor has some background in kickboxing or some similar martial art, so at least he has a pretty good idea what he's doing. There's still no way he can take out three armed security guards, especially while recovering from a gunshot wound and after being hit with a taser.[/quote]

Probably not but it's entertaining :)

He does look like he knows what he's doing though.

[G'Kar]

I was about to give up on Dollhouse, but this episode saved the show for me. I thought it was incredible, both story and performance wise. There is something gratifying about Helo wrenching Rollo Lambkin's arm out of its socket just for shits and giggles. And the way he took down all those bodyguards was bad ass. I'm actually really looking foward to next week's episode.

[EHK for Darwin]

[quote name='G'Kar' post='1728670' date='Mar 21 2009, 14.17']I was about to give up on Dollhouse, but this episode saved the show for me. I thought it was incredible, both story and performance wise. There is something gratifying about Helo wrenching Rollo Lambkin's arm out of its socket just for shits and giggles. And the way he took down all those bodyguards was bad ass. I'm actually really looking foward to next week's episode.[/quote]

I'd have to agree. Strong episode overall. Interesting reveals. And I was pretty damned impressed with the fight choreography throughout. Yeah it stretches things a bit making Helo the ultimate badass, but it makes for good fights.

[kungtotte]

[quote name='Brude' post='1728543' date='Mar 21 2009, 17.39']I don't understand peoples' disappointment, I thought that episode was absolutely incredible. Though I liked the show before, I was finally like, "ah, now we're getting into the meat of the story here." It's exactly the kind of episode I was expecting to come along but it managed to do it in a way I wasn't expecting.[/quote]
It took them too long to get into what's actually interesting (main story arc), which isn't an indictment of this episode but rather of the show as a whole. A doll is being raped regularly by her handler and it gets 5 minutes of airtime and then it's all over with? Oh except that this plot-twist is used to reveal that everyfuckingbody except Helo is a [s]cylon[/s] doll. And with his fighting prowess, I'm not entirely convinced [i]he's[/i] not a doll either. Maybe we're seeing two Dollhouses warring with each other?

Dollhouse leaves me quite underwhelmed thus far.

[Sheep the Evicted]

This is what i was waiting for. I only watched two dollhouse episodes so far and been extremely unimpressed each time but i read the reviews on this thread waiting for people to agree that things are finally getting into gear.

Dusku will never be a great actress but she wasn't so bad this time. The bodyguard fights made me roll my eyes and the kitchen fight was visually very creative - it made me laugh. I mean its obvious Dusku isn't that athletic and they where trying everything they could to cut in a replacement to do the really slick moves - say one thing for Summer Glau, say she knows how to kick convincingly.

But the sleeper fight was excellent. I really like that boss lady and her evil sense of humour now.

That was the best thing about this episode - the humour - it was present and it was witty and it felt very Wheadonite.

So yeah i liked it.

[Dirk Llama]

[quote name='The Sandy Llama' post='1712952' date='Mar 9 2009, 00.34']In episode two, Ballard believes that Crestejo contracted the Dollhouse to rescue his daughter. We get an expository line that he 'swears he didn't' and that's the end of it. I just can't suspend my disbelief to that shit. Why doesn't Ballard pursue that angle (subpoena his financial records, see if he did spend a significant chunk of change around the time of the kidnapping and where that money went, or, you know, some other shit any investigator would do?) or something similar with other former clients? Not a single one of the John's in the history of the Dollhouse could be leaned upon and legally compelled to reveal it's location or how one goes about setting up a meet/greet with Adelle DeWitt? What about the people who needed the midwife? How exactly are the weekly stream of clients getting in the door? I realize he's one dude, but the show clearly wants us to believe he's competent.[/quote]

It's weird that, in this episode, the show owned my criticisms from a few weeks back (Patton's character also more effectively addressed the [i]Why?[/i] of dollhouse patronage). I appreciate that Joss was thinking of a viewer like me when he was writing it last year. The network fucking around with the episode order is unfortunate, because this episode would have played better (for me) as a viewer if it had come sooner. Or, maybe that's just a function of the previous few episodes being significantly flawed in some way, mostly by being generally shitty and uncompelling. Narratively, it might have played better for things to work out perfectly (and to have been more action-y and blatantly viewer grabbing) with Echo's imprinting in episodes 2-5, rather than have a couple episodes where both the weekly action goes to shit and her imprinting gets fucked up. To sort of create a vibe of ruthless, corporate efficiency. Doesn't matter. If the show gets a second season (and, more), I'll just skip those episodes on re-watch. Or, fast forward through the 'engagement' scenes.

For the first time, I actively want this show to get renewed, though. This was the first episode of the show that felt lived in and thoroughly written. Maybe Tahmoh was starting to get comfortable in the role, but Ballard really worked. I don't know, I'm actually compelled (another first) to re-watch.

I was kinda pissed about sitting through the first couple episodes of this show, but now it was all worth it. Totally worth it. Good job, Joss, you are sexier than an apricot when you write.

[G'Kar]

[quote name='The Sandy Llama' post='1728880' date='Mar 21 2009, 19.40']I was kinda pissed about sitting through the first couple episodes of this show, but now it was all worth it. Totally worth it. Good job, Joss, you are sexier than an apricot when you write.[/quote]

I agree with you. Most of the episodes so far have ranged from average to bad, but this one actually felt like an episode worth seeing again.

[AverageGuy]

[quote name='Mexal' post='1728586' date='Mar 21 2009, 11.34']Even if we expected some of the main reveals[/quote]
More like all of the reveals. I don't think there was a surprise in this episode. Even "Who raped Sierra?" was pretty obvious from the moment Acker defended Victor.

My main problem with the show is that it feels (to me) like the premise is already played out. This particular episode was okay, but I really only enjoyed the hints about the central plot. I enjoy episodic TV sometimes, but regarding this show, if they don't get even further into the arc soon, it's not going to hold my interest. On top of that, I'm not willing to stick around for "average to bad" just for the rare "good," so we'll see how the next couple episodes compare. To be honest, I think I would've been gone after the second episode if this weren't Whedon.

[Dirk Llama]

[quote name='AverageGuy' post='1728913' date='Mar 21 2009, 20.32']My main problem with the show is that it feels (to me) like the premise is already played out. This particular episode was okay, but I really only enjoyed the hints about the central plot. I enjoy episodic TV sometimes, but regarding this show, if they don't get even further into the arc soon, it's not going to hold my interest. On top of that, I'm not willing to stick around for "average to bad" just for the rare "good," so we'll see how the next couple episodes compare. To be honest, I think I would've been gone after the second episode if this weren't Whedon.[/quote]

Most critics got episode 8 along with this one and the reviews I've read seem to indicate that episode is good, too. So, I'm just going to assume, given that we're getting deep into the season (presumably we're headed for some deeper Alpha/arc stuff) and Whedon marked this episode as a turning point for the quality of the writing... Well, I'm going to assume it's all at least this good for the rest of the season. Could be a shitty one in the group, maybe the one next week, but given the amount of time invested on shittyness... You shouldn't check out when there's potential goodness on the way.

[Sir Thursday]

Count me in the "Awesome" camp. The previous 5 episodes were inconsequential - this is what I will take as the show's premiere. And if they can keep this level up, I'll be one happy man :).

Sir Thursday

[Dinsdale!]

[quote name='kungtotte' post='1728752' date='Mar 21 2009, 16.07']It took them too long to get into what's actually interesting (main story arc), which isn't an indictment of this episode but rather of the show as a whole. A doll is being raped regularly by her handler and it gets 5 minutes of airtime and then it's all over with? Oh except that this plot-twist is used to reveal that everyfuckingbody except Helo is a [s]cylon[/s] doll. And with his fighting prowess, I'm not entirely convinced [i]he's[/i] not a doll either. Maybe we're seeing two Dollhouses warring with each other?[/quote]

If by another dollhouse, you mean Alpha. We already know he's feeding information to Ballard, and that he can deprogram doll's remotely.

[awesome possum]

I just wonder what the third flower's color is, and how it affects the neighbor.

[Brude]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1729319' date='Mar 22 2009, 09.02']I just wonder what the third flower's color is, and how it affects the neighbor.[/quote]
Green, yellow...I'm guessing red.

Was it green or yellow that made her go into kill mode? I'm guessing red shuts her down completely, knocks her out - safety mechanism.

And I don't think Helo's another doll. I think he's got got some serious military training in his background. A lot of those guys go into law enforcement after they get out: Secret Service, FBI, SWAT teams...what have you. Much better and far more noble than going to work for Blackwater (or Xe, or whatever they changed their name to now).

[Fatuous]

[quote name='Brude' post='1729355' date='Mar 22 2009, 10.02']And I don't think Helo's another doll. I think he's got got some serious military training in his background. A lot of those guys go into law enforcement after they get out: Secret Service, FBI, SWAT teams...what have you. Much better and far more noble than going to work for Blackwater (or Xe, or whatever they changed their name to now).[/quote]

So I'm the odd one out on the fighting scenes? I can accept it in the Bourne movies because training and techiniques are part of the character's background, plus they have better choreography, but in Dollhouse, saying it's ok that Ballard has the moves and the skills because it's part of the actor's own experiences is missing the point of story driven narrative.

In the end, if Ballard was a known exwhatever then why would other agents give him such a hard time? "I'll bust your balls because I know you can pull my arm out of its socket. Pull, baby, pull."

Ah, he's a masochist. That explains everything.

[Ser Aardvark]

So where was this episode for...oh the last six episodes or so?

[awesome possum]

[quote name='Fatuous' post='1729364' date='Mar 22 2009, 06.31']So I'm the odd one out on the fighting scenes? I can accept it in the Bourne movies because training and techiniques are part of the character's background, plus they have better choreography, but in Dollhouse, saying it's ok that Ballard has the moves and the skills because it's part of the actor's own experiences is missing the point of story driven narrative.

In the end, if Ballard was a known exwhatever then why would other agents give him such a hard time? "I'll bust your balls because I know you can pull my arm out of its socket. Pull, baby, pull."

Ah, he's a masochist. That explains everything.[/quote]

Yeah, they need some serious 'splaining to do with Ballard and his badassedness. I mean, the guy has a bleeding bullet wound in his stomach, got tazed, but still took down three highly paid bodyguards, then bests a Doll who was souped up with fighting prowess just half a day later? Just doesn't work for me.

[Mexal]

[quote name='Fatuous' post='1729364' date='Mar 22 2009, 10.31']So I'm the odd one out on the fighting scenes? I can accept it in the Bourne movies because training and techiniques are part of the character's background, plus they have better choreography, but in Dollhouse, saying it's ok that Ballard has the moves and the skills because it's part of the actor's own experiences is missing the point of story driven narrative.

In the end, if Ballard was a known exwhatever then why would other agents give him such a hard time? "I'll bust your balls because I know you can pull my arm out of its socket. Pull, baby, pull."

Ah, he's a masochist. That explains everything.[/quote]

I'm sure we'll find out more about his background as the show goes on. As for the other agents, why wouldn't they still give him shit? He's talking about a mysterious dollhouse that they all think doesn't exist. It's not like he's going to go into the room and beat the shit out of 15 agents because they make fun of him.

[quote name='Ser Aardvark']So where was this episode for...oh the last six episodes or so?[/quote]

Honestly, I don't think this episode would have been as good without all the build up. We were lead to this point by the other episodes while being shown certain things dolls could do. Now we understand that there is something more going on. If we were just told something more was going on 3 episodes ago, it might have lessened the suspense.

[Mexal]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1729370' date='Mar 22 2009, 10.39']Yeah, they need some serious 'splaining to do with Ballard and his badassedness. I mean, the guy has a bleeding bullet wound in his stomach, got tazed, but still took down three highly paid bodyguards, then bests a Doll who was souped up with fighting prowess just half a day later? Just doesn't work for me.[/quote]

She was given skills but she's still only 105lbs.

[Sheep the Evicted]

[quote name='awesome possum' post='1729370' date='Mar 22 2009, 14.39']Yeah, they need some serious 'splaining to do with Ballard and his badassedness. I mean, the guy has a bleeding bullet wound in his stomach, got tazed, but still took down three highly paid bodyguards, then bests a Doll who was souped up with fighting prowess just half a day later? Just doesn't work for me.[/quote]

Out of all the plot holes in the the show - the central premise being the biggest one - this is the one that bothers you the most ?

Besides no amount of "training" will ever make someone like Echo a lethal weapon.

[AverageGuy]

[quote name='The Sandy Llama' post='1728925' date='Mar 21 2009, 18.43']You shouldn't check out when there's potential goodness on the way.[/quote]
I know, but that's so often my excuse for staying with a series that I'm not enjoying. I didn't drop [i]Heroes[/i] or [i]BSG[/i] until midway through the third season for each, mainly because I gave that excuse. On top of this, the "profession of the week" concept eventually wearied me back when I used to watch [i]The Pretender[/i] (never did watch [i]Alias[/i]), and the fact that I'm not feeling all that engaged by [i]this[/i] show may be a clue it's just not to my taste. Regardless, I guess I haven't learned my lesson well enough and will catch the next couple episodes; I hope I have a reason to eat my words.

Anyway, was [url="http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/25951789/joss_whedon_goes_where_no_tv_man_has_gone_before"]this interview[/url] posted before?

[quote]Joss Whedon...reveals why working on his triumphant return to the small screen, Dollhouse, has convinced him to abandon TV for good.[/quote]
The article came out over a month ago, but I don't remember anyone talking about it. It doesn't quote Whedon saying he was thinking of abandoning TV, just that he was interested in doing more web content, but does anyone pick up [i]Rolling Stone[/i] who knows if there was more to it offline or if that was its entirety?