U.S. Politics IV

[VigoTheCarpathian]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1700907' date='Feb 26 2009, 07.49']Yes, the less-publicized but no less important Boston Teabag Party seems to have largely been forgotten. :P[/quote]

Is that the one where everyone dipped their scrotums into Boston harbor? Or was it the one where the founding fathers duct-taped Benedict Arnold to the locker room floor during gym class?

And let us not forget the rallying cry of the American Revolution "Taxation: We'll Allow it, but no Gay Fornication"

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Coming out of lurk mode to post [url="http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=6960824&page=1"]this[/url] stupid bullshit.
The Obama administration will seek to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004 during the Bush administration, Attorney General Eric Holder said today.

[quote]"As President Obama indicated during the campaign, there are just a few gun-related changes that we would like to make, and among them would be to reinstitute the ban on the sale of assault weapons," Holder told reporters.

Holder said that putting the ban back in place would not only be a positive move by the United States, it would help cut down on the flow of guns going across the border into Mexico, which is struggling with heavy violence among drug cartels along the border.

"I think that will have a positive impact in Mexico, at a minimum." Holder said at a news conference on the arrest of more than 700 people in a drug enforcement crackdown on Mexican drug cartels operating in the U.S.

Mexican government officials have complained that the availability of sophisticated guns from the United States have emboldened drug traffickers to fight over access routes into the U.S.[/quote]


1. The gun ban was a terrible and unconstitutional idea in the first place, and did nothing to cut down on crime.

2. Why the fuck should we curtail the constitutionally guaranteed freedoms of Americans based on a very tenuous connection to Mexican crime (I suppose that the helicopters and tanks that the cartels use are also coming from the US, along with all their foot soldiers, spare me.)

3. One step closer....

[Annelise]

[quote name='MojoJojo' post='1700813' date='Feb 26 2009, 09.03']You would think though, that a guy that is the governor of a state hit by one of the worst natural disasters in US history would not single out a part of the stimulus package that prepares the country for natural disasters.[/quote]

I would have thought there'd be something better, too. That said, I actually think it would have been okay if it had been someone other than the Gov. of LA speaking and even talking about Katrina in his speech. That just begs for commentary like .. yours, which from what I saw, was echoed a lot yesterday in the post speech/es coverage.

[Annelise]

[quote name='Tormund Midgetsbane' post='1700915' date='Feb 26 2009, 11.01']1. The gun ban was a terrible and unconstitutional idea in the first place, and did nothing to cut down on crime.[/quote]

Sounds like a case for SCOTUS, although they did leave the door open for reasonable firearms regulation in that DC handgun ruling, IIRC. I actually think SCOTUS will let it stand, myself.

[DanteGabriel]

Moderate (read as: willing to work with the President) GOP senators bite back against Steele's dumb-ass comments about running more conservative candidates against them in the primaries:

[quote name='TPM story']Senator Olympia Snowe (R-ME), a pro-stimulus Republican who will be up for re-election in 2012, told Roll Call that she approached Steele about his comments and asked him bluntly: "You didn't really mean that, did you?" She said that Steele has agreed to set up a meeting with the three pro-stimulus GOPers to discuss this.

Snowe pointed out that the loss of GOP moderates, and the view that they don't belong in the party, has contributed to the party's overall decrease. "When we were in the majority, there were more of us. Now that we're in the minority, there are less of us," Snowe explained, also adding: "If that's what they want to be, well that's their choice."[/quote]
[url="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/02/gop-senators-blast-steele-over-talk-of-primary-challenges.php?ref=fpjr2"]http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/02...s.php?ref=fpjr2[/url]

Also, Louisiana Senator David "Bill Clinton is morally unfit to lead, but don't mind me and the fact that my name shows up like a rash all over the DC madam's call logs" Vitter is going to be challenged in the primaries by a Republican Christian activist... and porn star Stormy Daniels.

[url="http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/02/vitter-facing-possible-circus-primary-christian-right-activist-and-porn-star.php?ref=fp2?ref=dc1"]http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/02...ref=fp2?ref=dc1[/url]

[Shryke]

Hehe, Snowe is the perfect candidate to talk back. She really doesn't need the GOP to get elected. AFAIK her approval ratings are REALLY REALLY high.

[Swordfish]

So let me understand what I'm seeing here.

locking us into a several trillion dollar deficit for the foreseeable future is being passed off as ushering in a new era of responsibility, and people are actually nodding along and lapping this up? Seriously?

it's like some kind of sick joke.

i would love to see someone break down the math on this proposal. it seems to me that the money isn't ever going to be there no matter how you slice it, even with the tax raises for the evil, dirty, greedy, heartless rich people.

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1701152' date='Feb 26 2009, 14.59']So let me understand what I'm seeing here.

locking us into a several trillion dollar deficit for the foreseeable future is being passed off as ushering in a new era of responsibility, and people are actually nodding along and lapping this up? Seriously?

it's like some kind of sick joke.

i would love to see someone break down the math on this proposal. it seems to me that the money isn't ever going to be there no matter how you slice it, even with the tax raises for the evil, dirty, greedy, heartless rich people.[/quote]
It's a fuck of a lot more responsible than the last eight years of criminal tomfoolery.

I mean, I'm not sure you've noticed, but there's an economy cratering around us, and two foreign wars underway, and health care is an ever-expanding problem. Fixing all that won't be cheap.

Do you have some fantasy of some new conservative snake-oil salesman like Reagan coming onto the scene to tell the country that we can fix all our problems AND not spend money? Maybe Bobby Jindal is the closest thing you've got to that, and good fucking luck with that loser.

[Arthmail]

And how exactly do you expect things to get better with the economy without any action? Do you have a better idea? And i really, really hope you don't say cut taxes.

[The Progressive]

Cutting starwar weapon systems, agro subsidies, corporate welfare and taxing offshore profits should net a nice chunk.

[Swordfish]

[quote name='Arthmail' post='1701197' date='Feb 26 2009, 12.26']And how exactly do you expect things to get better with the economy without any action?[/quote]


because that is what economies do. spending our way out of recession that was basically created by out of control spending seems like an..... odd bit of logic to me.

but that wasn't the point.

I don't see how anyone in their right mind with any perspective at all on how much running these kinds of things is really going to cost us can possibly defend this as a good thing, and the government simply throwing money at our problems certainly doesn't seem like change to me.........

[DanteGabriel]

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1701205' date='Feb 26 2009, 15.31']because that is what economies do. i am unconvinced that spending our way out of recession that was basically created by out of control spending seems like an..... odd bit of logic to me.[/quote]
And I thought it was the fabled Unregulated Free Market that got us into this situation. Not "out of control spending".

[The Progressive]

[quote name='DanteGabriel' post='1701208' date='Feb 26 2009, 12.32']And I thought it was the fabled Unregulated Free Market that got us into this situation. Not "out of control spending".[/quote]

Let's not forget the [url="http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home"]cost of the Iraq war[/url], reaching about 600 billions or so by now ............ which were hidden from the annual budget by not so clever GOP accounting trick.

[TrackerNeil]

I would love to see Steele try to run Snowe and Collins out of office via a primary. Then Democrats can take the seats of otherwise difficult-to-defeat senators in the blue state of Maine. Hello filibuster-proof majority!

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1701205' date='Feb 26 2009, 15.31']I don't see how anyone in their right mind with any perspective at all on how much running these kinds of things is really going to cost us can possibly defend this as a good thing, and the government simply throwing money at our problems certainly doesn't seem like change to me.........[/quote]

Funny...this outrage was noticeably lacking when the GOP was "simply throwing money" at a losing Iraq strategy. I guess, like the Republican Party itself, you finally regained your sense of fiscal sanity, Swordfish, around January 20, 2009.

[Fatuous]

[quote name='Swordfish' post='1701205' date='Feb 26 2009, 15.31']I don't see how anyone in their right mind with any perspective at all on how much running these kinds of things is really going to cost us can possibly defend this as a good thing, and the government simply throwing money at our problems certainly doesn't seem like change to me.........[/quote]

In order to introduce liquidity back into a stagnant economic system, money will have to be spent; This is Real Economics 101 and it is exactly the type of problem that can be solved by throwing money at it. The real question is "How much money?"

"anyone in their right mind with any perspective at all on how much running these kinds of things is really going to cost us" You could have stopped at "anyone"; I wouldn't have thought any less of you.

And if I was a Conservative riffing on Obama's campaign promises, I would have quipped "Obama's making us all penniless. How is that change we can believe in?"

[VarysTheSpider]

[quote name='Fatuous' post='1701249' date='Feb 26 2009, 21.15']In order to introduce liquidity back into a stagnant economic system, money will have to be spent; This is Real Economics 101 and it is exactly the type of problem that can be solved by throwing money at it. The real question is "How much money?"[/quote]
$200 trillion? That's a really big number, way bigger than $700 billion, so it's bound to work. :smoking:

And come on, economics 101? Please. There's nothing in any introductory economics textbook about these types of crises. You'll find discussions in the advanced macro textbooks, where the debate is fierce, with much of the research being published in the last ten years around the time Japan was throwing money at their problem like it was going out of fashion. All they bought for their trobule was stagnation and a mountain of debt. This won't be any different.

Debt cannot make you richer - that's economics 101.

[Shryke]

Economics 101 teaches you just enough to not know wtf your talking about while using big words.

[Annelise]

[quote name='Pax Thien Jolie-Pitt' post='1701201' date='Feb 26 2009, 15.28']Cutting starwar weapon systems, agro subsidies, corporate welfare and taxing offshore profits should net a nice chunk.[/quote]

Yep, it's a start. I'm sure there's going to be some sad faces on both sides of the aisle when they're through. Hell, if the stimulus fails this is still a good thing and it's the perfect moment for it. In better times, it's a bitch for either party to accomplish.

[Shryke]

Also, I think I love Michael Steele. I don't think I've ever seen a politician this easy to make fun of.
[quote]Michael Steele: I love it. (inaudible)...some slum love out to my buddy, gov. Bobby Jindal is doing a friggin' awesome job in his state. He's really turned around on some core principles -- like hey, government ought not be corrupt. The good stuff...the easy stuff.[/quote]
[quote]Curtis Sliwa: When you used the hip-hop vernacular, man, Barack Obama has bling bling in this stimulus package, you got people's attention.
Michael Steele: Absolutely. There's a lot of bling bling -- the bling bling's got bling bling in this package. That's how bad it is.[/quote]
[url="http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0209/Steele_offers_Jindal_slum_love.html?showall"]http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/020...ve.html?showall[/url]


And it goes on.

[Horza]

'Economics 101' is the new 'common sense'