Your Right to Bear Arms is Bullsh*t

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

What caliber handgun are you carrying that's going to be effective against a bear? I was under the impression bears had such a thick skin that shooting them with most handguns would do little more than piss them off.

We just have black bears in Arizona, not grizzly's. I carry a .44 magnum (similar to this one) out backpacking.

A friend of mine has a great story about a grizzly routing a whole platoon of armed marines; suffice to say, those things can take a few hits.

Friend of mine claims to have dropped a black bear with one shot from a .30-06.

ETA:

Ohshi- Why didn't I think of flamethrowers earlier? That's brilliant! Now, where can I go stock up on flamethrowers, I wonder...

Make your own, those are legal in most states, believe it or not.

[The_BlauerDragon]

You'll need the ammo for the zombie attack, and lots of it. (Could preparing for the zombie apocalypse be a reasonable excuse for stockpiling ammunition?) Also, get a sword. Machete or katana or something, because remember, blades don't need reloading. You'll be glad you did when the zombies attack.

Funny, I never really thought about the Zombie apocalypse factor... and I never really have had any fear of someone breaking into my house (other than my Uncle Sam and that is not even an immediate concern). After you posted this though, I started doing a little mental inventory. I only have one round of ammunition in my house, it's on the other side of my house from my gun, but I do have a bayonet and loads of bladed weapons. If a zombie breaks down my door to tries and rob me in the middle of the night I can rest assured that no matter where I am at in the house I will have a bayonet, a saber, a machete, or any number of assorted knives, hammers, hatchets, axes, or large sticks within easy reach. So I guess the guns are just there for novelty and show at that point. I still wouldn't trade them for the world, but it's good to know that even without my gun I'm still protected from those thieving zombies. :fence:

[CiaranAnnrach]

We just have black bears in Arizona, not grizzly's. I carry a .44 magnum (similar to this one) out backpacking.

Friend of mine claims to have dropped a black bear with one shot from a .30-06.

ETA:

Make your own, those are legal in most states, believe it or not.

Hmm, was your friends .30-06 a handgun or rifle? And do you remember where he hit the bear?

I've no doubts a handgun can drop a bear with a really good and lucky shot, but I think that'll rely a bit more on luck than I care to rely on. That, and black bears don't have nearly as thick a skin as grizzlies and brown bears, so I'm not sure.

[Lord of Oop North]

Make your own, those are legal in most states, believe it or not.

The igniter from an old kitchen stove is perfect for one .... not that I know first-hand or anything ... :leaving:

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

Hmm, was your friends .30-06 a handgun or rifle? And do you remember where he hit the bear?

Rifle. I've never even heard of someone carrying .30-06 handgun.

He didn't say where he hit it. I assume vital organs, or he could be lying.

I've no doubts a handgun can drop a bear with a really good and lucky shot, but I think that'll rely a bit more on luck than I care to rely on.

I'm pretty certain that no handgun will not drop a bear at all, so I'll figure luck favors the prepared. :)

If a zombie breaks down my door to tries and rob me in the middle of the night I can rest assured that no matter where I am at in the house I will have a bayonet, a saber, a machete, or any number of assorted knives, hammers, hatchets, axes, or large sticks within easy reach.

I keep a poleaxe and broadsword for zombie purposes.

[Greywolf2375]

Rifle. I've never even heard of someone carrying .30-06 handgun.

He didn't say where he hit it. I assume vital organs, or he could be lying.

I'm pretty certain that no handgun will not drop a bear at all, so I'll figure luck favors the prepared. :)

A 30-06 handgun? probably not based on the shell itself - too long for a standard pistol design.

A .454 will stop a bear in its tracks, it's part of the reason why many big game hunters carry them

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

A .454 will stop a bear in its tracks, it's part of the reason why many big game hunters carry them .

Yeah, I wanted a Ruger .454 Alaskan. But then a guy offerd to sell me a new Ruger .44 Redhawk for only 400 bills so I couldn't pass it up.

[Galactus]

If you like. This was your initial assertion:

Your prerogative to procede as you are, but don't mistake it as convincing. It's not that I'm set against your original assertion, incidently, I'm just finding you lazy regarding it. YMMV.

I don't get it. I made an assumption, noting specifically that I didn't look up the stats, Mormont post stats that back me up, you post what looks like the same stats categorized differently?

Is there something I am not getting?

[Galactus]

Anacdotal evidence is anacdotal. I suspect that I would never be the victim of a home invasion, but it doesn't mean I don't have a plan for what to do if I am. I don't expect that my house will catch on fire either, but I have a fire escape plan as well.

And no, my plan doesn't involve me blowing away the intruder Die Hard-style.

Yes, I know, hence my usage of "seem".

[Kelli Fury]

For those of you concerned about shooting bears- you need to shoot them in the head but most bullets will not penetrate the area of the skull between the eyes of a grizzly. That is the thickest part of their skull and bullets tend to glance off or just stick in the bone. Shoot at the side of the head, heart, or in the eye, kids. If you are running from a bear, run downhill if possible, it's the only way it's harder for them to run than you.

[Elrostar]

States are allowed to slap as extreme regulations on guns as they want, but they are not allowed to deregulate below the level set by the federal government, as defined by the commerce clause.

That commerce clause gets used an awful lot by a lot of people to justify a lot of things, I know. Conservatives love it just as much as liberals when you get right down to it, though. It's what was used to justify preventing the legalization of pot in California, as I recall. Apparently that affected inter-state commerce as well, in some way. I think in that case it would have been easier to ensure that the crops stayed purely within the state, however, than it really is with guns (and all the parts used to create them). But perhaps it's two sides of the same coin.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Elro,

Not all self described conservatives are real happy about federal regulation of illegal drugs. I've never used (and never want to use) illegal drugs but think its a waste of time and money to enforce laws making those drugs illegal.

[The_BlauerDragon]

What caliber handgun are you carrying that's going to be effective against a bear? I was under the impression bears had such a thick skin that shooting them with most handguns would do little more than piss them off.

That's not to say I'm trying to call you out or anything, I'm just curious if your gun is known to be effective against bears, and if so what caliber/type it is.

The majority of bears in Arizona are quite small (black bears). Barely bigger than the average dog.

Hmm, was your friends .30-06 a handgun or rifle? And do you remember where he hit the bear?

It's only a .30-'06 if it is a rifle. The handgun equivalent would just be a .30 caliber.

[CiaranAnnrach]

Rifle. I've never even heard of someone carrying .30-06 handgun.

Ehh, I'm no gun nut, to be perfectly honest. I've shot before and enjoyed it, but if I'm going to go to the range for shooting then I'm going to go with a longbow. (Same goes if I ever pick up hunting, I'd go with a yew longbow before I went with a rifle.) So, my gun knowledge is lacking, I'm ashamed to admit, especially since I'm from the South.

I knew the higher powered rifles could drop bears. I just didn't think a handgun would be quite up to the task. I apologize if the tone of my posts made it sound like I was dubious it could be done at all, I should have perhaps put greater stress on the handgun limitation.

[Ser Greguh]

A handgun can be useful in scaring away a bear as well. They really don't like the sound, and unless they're actively involved in the act of attacking you, their reaction to a gunshot is more likely than not to run away.

[CiaranAnnrach]

A handgun can be useful in scaring away a bear as well. They really don't like the sound, and unless they're actively involved in the act of attacking you, their reaction to a gunshot is more likely than not to run away.

Yeah, but that'll never happen. Obviously, any American out there who has a handgun only has one because he thinks he is John Wayne, so he's gonna whip it out of his hip holster and put two bullets in each of the bears eyes. Or at least attempt to. And then brag to everyone on the internet (from the hospital) about how he killed a bear with a .22 pistol due to his excellent marksmanship and all around badassery.

After all, isn't that why Americans have guns?

[Swordfish]

Yeah, but that'll never happen. Obviously, any American out there who has a handgun only has one because he thinks he is John Wayne, so he's gonna whip it out of his hip holster and put two bullets in each of the bears eyes. Or at least attempt to. And then brag to everyone on the internet (from the hospital) about how he killed a bear with a .22 pistol due to his excellent marksmanship and all around badassery.

After all, isn't that why Americans have guns?

I only own mine in order to impress the ladiezz.

[Tormund Ukrainesbane]

I only own mine in order to impress the ladiezz.

:rolleyes: All the "ladiezz" I know are terrified of guns. Drives me insane. Mrs. Midgetsbane is convinced that they will go off by themselves if left unmonitored.

[Swordfish]

:rolleyes: All the "ladiezz" I know are terrified of guns. Drives me insane. Mrs. Midgetsbane is convinced that they will go off by themselves if left unmonitored.

We obviously hang out in different social circles.

;)

[Guest Raidne]

The government promises to provide me representation in the event I'm charged with a crime. The government promises a jury trial. A few others I'm forgetting.

ETA: Buuuut you said generally so I should probably shut up now. It's just I've run into people before who offered the argument that health care can't be a right because rights can't be things other people have to do for you. Which is manifestly untrue.

Ah, but those are safeguards that relate to what the government owes you before they take something away from you, namely, your freedom.

As for the latter, yeah, well, under a traditionally American understanding of rights that would be a valid argument, but perhaps not sound as the American understanding of rights may not be at all correct (or even held by many individual Americans...).

You could still make the case for health care by arguing that it's impossible to, say, pursue happiness or have liberty or some such without basic health care, but, IMO, that opens a whole can of worms and it's more valid to tackle the American understanding of "rights" head on.

Ah, cool, I never though to that! (Germany has, in a constitution that was largely drafted by Americans, as far as I know.)

Do you know of an accessible comparison between countries, where the potential rights are enumerated and checked? Like a two-dimensional table with country names for columns, and rights (“Bear armsâ€, “Safetyâ€, “Wear furry costumeâ€) for rows.

Alas, I do not. My sincere apologies. Ours are pretty much those delineated in the first 10 amendments + the due process rights we're entitled to before the government takes away our liberty or property + equal protection under the law + privacy in certain circumstances.

Yep. And you'd be right.

Give me a break. You live in Idaho. The best you can say is that you live in a part of America that is a hopeless backwater. The scary part is that there's a risk that it infects your way of thinking and you will forever be recognizable as a person who is from a hopeless backwards, ignorant part of the country. Chew on that.