MMA 2009 III

[Stego]

I think the heavyweight with the best chance to take out Lesnar is Bobby Lashley. He's the only guy I see able to negate Lesnars strength.

I would really love to see Carwin knock Lesnar's ass out, but I'm afraid it's just not going to happen.

[Ken Stone]

If anyone is interested I started a new thread for a MMA Pick 'um sort of game.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?showtopic=38483

[GSP]

Ed Soares has decided to openly advocate for a Marquardt v. Hendo match up to see who gets a shot at Silva. Not sure I like it when fighter's camps try to influence match ups. Not sure I like champs having any say whatsoever as to who they defend against next. I think Hendo and Marquardt should be thrown at Silva in turn. Both deserve rematches and would pose legitimate threats in doing so. Marquardt in particular is looking super human lately, and Silva would be doing himself a huge disservice to underestimate him.

Silva's great, but as a champ he should be chomping at the bit to make a statement at the expense of whoever the organization chooses to throw at him. Let the organization worry about who's next and just focus on taking them out.

[benderschweiz]

As a Henderson fan I'd like to see him get a title shot, but I'd be just as excited to see him fight Marquardt. They might as well make all of Anderson Silva's fights count from here on out. Also, hope Dana White doesn't pull BS and sit Silva out for a year like he did with Arlovski and Huerta.

I think the two HWs with the best shot at Lesnar would be Carwin and Gonzaga. Both have the power to KO Lesnar and both are elite fighters on the ground as well.

[Oorag]

Kongo would be the best matchup Lesnar could hope for amonst the upper tier HW fighters in the UFC's roster. He's a kickboxer without much knockout power, takedown defense or ground game. The number of seconds he'd spend on his feet would be in the single digits. Lashley rivals Lesnar in size, but he's still smaller, and his wrestling credentials are apparently much lower. I don't think he'll ever have any real advantages over Lesnar.

I would definitely look forward to a Hendo/Marquardt fight as a title eliminator.

As for Arlovki and Huerta getting put on ice, I don't know about Arlovski's deal, but Huerta took time off himself to pursue acting. As far as I know, that's still his ultimate goal. I don't blame guys like Huerta and Cung Le for trying to go Hollywood instead of getting beat up for a living, but it certainly is frustrating as a fight fan.

[benderschweiz]

Kongo would be the best matchup Lesnar could hope for amonst the upper tier HW fighters in the UFC's roster. He's a kickboxer without much knockout power, takedown defense or ground game. The number of seconds he'd spend on his feet would be in the single digits. Lashley rivals Lesnar in size, but he's still smaller, and his wrestling credentials are apparently much lower. I don't think he'll ever have any real advantages over Lesnar.

I would definitely look forward to a Hendo/Marquardt fight as a title eliminator.

As for Arlovki and Huerta getting put on ice, I don't know about Arlovski's deal, but Huerta took time off himself to pursue acting. As far as I know, that's still his ultimate goal. I don't blame guys like Huerta and Cung Le for trying to go Hollywood instead of getting beat up for a living, but it certainly is frustrating as a fight fan.

What happened was Huerte told the UFC brass that he would not resign with the company after his contract was up, because he wants to pursue acting. The UFC then kept Huerta from finishing the last fight on his contract by not scheduling a fight for him in over a year. Huerta had wanted another fight all the way back in the Spring when they were going to have him killed by Sherk. They did the same thing with Arlovski by keeping him from fighting for about a year and then putting him on the undercard for his last fight.

[Ser Barry]

I thought 102 was very entertaining and the main event was special. Not sure where the hate is coming from.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Silva's great, but as a champ he should be chomping at the bit to make a statement at the expense of whoever the organization chooses to throw at him. Let the organization worry about who's next and just focus on taking them out.

Point of fact is that I don't think that, competitively speaking, Silva is overly impressed by either fighter and would probably rather have another fight at LHW while the UFC looks for a fresh contender. It's not as if Silva is looking to duck these guys, he's already beaten both of them easily. But first you'd have to think that Silva is likely to dust either one of them pretty convincingly once again. He's said in the past that Rich Franklin was a tougher opponent for him than either one of them.

Also, and perhaps most importantly for Silva, his first two fights against them weren't much for PPV revenue which he likely gets a percentage of. Fighting them again doesn't help his pocketbook or help his marketability going forward. So it really makes no sense for Silva to be excited by these guys. Yeah ppl probably like the "I'll fight anyone" guys, but for a fighter of Silva's caliber, I trust that fighting anyone isn't the problem, it's getting anyone who can challenge him. Right now that MW isn't in the UFC at the moment.

As a Henderson fan I'd like to see him get a title shot, but I'd be just as excited to see him fight Marquardt. They might as well make all of Anderson Silva's fights count from here on out. Also, hope Dana White doesn't pull BS and sit Silva out for a year like he did with Arlovski and Huerta.

Won't happen with Silva's demands for quick fights. If DW has any hope of re-signing him when his contract comes up, he'll have to keep him as busy as he wants to be. So barring injury Silva will be fighting 3 or 4 times a year for as long as he remains with the UFC.

But on the off chance that DW does "ice" Silva as his contract comes to an end, I have a feeling that that would be just the thing that would send him into the arms of RJJ and whoever will put on a PPV boxing event for them. I guess it depends on how realistically DW thinks it is that Silva will re-sign. As for me, I just want him to do what he wants to do. He's my favorite fighter and as far as I'm concerned he's earned a retirement if that's what he wants. I just hope to train at his school some day (wishful thinking, I know).

[benderschweiz]

Yeah ppl probably like the "I'll fight anyone" guys, but for a fighter of Silva's caliber, I trust that fighting anyone isn't the problem, it's getting anyone who can challenge him. Right now that MW isn't in the UFC at the moment.

I think Dan Henderson is a top 5 LHW as well, so his challenges are running very thin in any division but heavyweight. Really the only interesting and competitive (maybe) fight at LHW would be Rampage. I guess if Shogun pulls an upset that would be a good one too.

[Stego]

I think Dan Henderson is a top 5 LHW as well, so his challenges are running very thin in any division but heavyweight. Really the only interesting and competitive (maybe) fight at LHW would be Rampage. I guess if Shogun pulls an upset that would be a good one too.

Rampage? Rampage got pwned by the guy Silva embarrassed in a few seconds.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Rampage? Rampage got pwned by the guy Silva embarrassed in a few seconds.

Rampage didn't exactly get pwned by Forrest, he lost a weak decision to him. I wanna see weak-sauce Griffin rematch both him and Shogun. He'll lose both fights if/when those happen.

But if what you're saying is that Silva would walk through Rampage, then I agree.

However even if Forrest had embarrased Page, I'd still call it a better matchup for Silva. MMA isn't exactly an this happened so this should happen sport. No sport is really like that but moreso with MMA. Now Page is not easily stopped and has actual KO power,... Forrest couldn't KO a cardboard cutout of an MMA fighter. He's overly aggressive whereas the current Rampage is a more defensive striker, which is one aspect of his game which is improving still. It would be mostly interesting because he'd easily be the most powerful opponent that he's faced. Still think that Silva wins easily, just not as quickly as he made Forrest run.

[Stego]

Why the Shogun love but Forrest hate? Shogun hasn't done anything worth mentioning in years. Forrest is a 'B' fighter and always will be, but Shogun and Rampage were both less than that at that point in their careers. (re: basically now)

Rashad Evans is going to wipe the floor with Rampage. Will you feel different about him when that happens?

I really, truly believe that a lot of Silva's power over others is his swagger. He's supremely confident; fearless. A lot of fighters pretend to be fearless, but Silva actually is. And he's mostly safe at the end of those long arms. I still think a fighter like GSP (not that there are many like him) who hasn't lost the fight before he even steps in the ring, can take out Silva.

[ljkeane]

I still think a fighter like GSP (not that there are many like him) who hasn't lost the fight before he even steps in the ring, can take out Silva.

I don't know, GSP has similar strengths to Henderson. I'd say he's better than Henderson but that's offset by the size difference. I wouldn't feel confident about the prospects of GSP winning against Silva, I think it would would be difficult for him to take down Silva and Silva would do more damage to GSP while the fight was off the ground than GSP would do to Silva when the fight was on the ground.

[Horus Ex Machina]

Why the Shogun love but Forrest hate? Shogun hasn't done anything worth mentioning in years. Forrest is a 'B' fighter and always will be, but Shogun and Rampage were both less than that at that point in their careers. (re: basically now)

Because I don't rate fighters based on simply their record, but what I see and how they fight. How they come about their victories or how they lose is just as important in picking apart a fighter as what fights they win. You cannot say that Forrest Griffin was overly dominant in either of his biggest victories. The Shogun fight replayed with the sound turned down shows that he lost the first round, won the second and the third, the second not so convincingly. You also have to look at the manner that he won. He outworked Shogun, but what else? He didn't show a dominant standup strategy, he kinda did what he always does, throw punches at his opponents head until one gets through. He doesn't move before or after he punches, he has a pretty static head, his high kicks are less telegraphed than when he started, but they aren't well timed or set up well. His ground game is mostly about holding position but if he ever manages a sweep it will be the first time I've seen it from him.

Overall as a fighter, he's pretty predictable. He's not gonna surprise anyone anymore now that ppl are taking him seriously. And I'll grant that they should. But there's nothing that's dynamic about his style. He's not powerful, or fast. He's not especially accurate and he doesn't set up strikes with any type of guile. I laughed at the beginning of the Silva fight when I heard that he'd planned his opening combination and, sure enough, he did it. That isn't technical fighting, that coreographing and it doesn't work in fighting. This isn't football where you can run techniques like you're calling them out of a playbook. You can say his leg kicks are lethal and I won't fault his technique, but this is where what I just said comes into play, he has no guile. Those kicks only really played in one fight, the Rampage fight. It was something that obviously his opponents would key on and attempt to catch. Sure enough Rashad used a caught-kick to set up a takedown, and Silva caught one as well prompting Griffin to almost abandon them entirely. If he had a clue on how to mix up his strikes, he might have been able to go back to them.

Rashad Evans is going to wipe the floor with Rampage. Will you feel different about him when that happens?

If your definition of "wipe the floor" is the same as your definition of pwning, then it'll probably end up as a split decision, which is how I currently think that a fight between them will end.

I really, truly believe that a lot of Silva's power over others is his swagger. He's supremely confident; fearless. A lot of fighters pretend to be fearless, but Silva actually is. And he's mostly safe at the end of those long arms. I still think a fighter like GSP (not that there are many like him) who hasn't lost the fight before he even steps in the ring, can take out Silva.

His power over them is his skill and technique. That's where his swagger comes from, he knows that he's better than everyone else. Swagger without skill will get you killed since a cocky fighter will think that he can do things that his body and preparation can't back up. I'll grant that his limbs give him an advantage in the standup, but they also aid him on the ground as well. Grappling a taller fighter can pose additional challenges when that fighter is equally skilled.

Can GSP take out Silva? I think he can beat Silva, yes. I said that before. GSP has alot of the same advantages over his opponents that I mentioned with Silva. His technique is superior to that of his opponents. He sets up his takedowns and punches well and his in-fight strategy is flawless. He can change and adjust on the fly bc he doesn't have to over-rely on any one aspect of his game. I think that he shares a number of the same skillsets as Hendo, but he's far better strategically. And his offensive striking is more dynamic, if not as powerful. The biggest X-factor in GSP's favor is the cross section of GSP's takedown ability and Silva's takedown defense. But I'd still put my money on Silva.

[benderschweiz]

Rampage will finish Rashad. He has the size advantage, he's more powerful, and he's the better boxer of the two. What does Rashad even have to offer him? Rashad has been overrated for the KO of Chuck and beating Forrest. In reality he's at the same level as Tito Ortiz and Michael Bisping, which is well below Rampage. Besides Machida, there's no one at LHW with a better shot at Silva than Jackson.

[GSP]

I agree with benderschweiz. Rampage would be one of the bigger risks and challenges to Silva at LHW.

Horus, if Silva truly believes that Marquardt can be overlooked as a threat and isn't really a challenge and that fight materializes, I think I'll throw some money on Nate for the upset. The guy who pulled that Street Fighter shit out on Wilson Govea (sp?) and who ko'd Maia 21 seconds into the first had better be respected by anybody in the division in the other corner. I think it was Bas Rutten I heard once explaining how everything else being equal, the guy getting the rematch has the better chance to win, because he will have learned from the first loss more and be so much more hungry for the win. Silva's a phenom, but I believe Marquardt is coming into his own like nobodies business and will come looking for blood. I also believe he honestly believes he is the man to dethrone Silva, which is a huge factor in many of Silva's fights. Long story short, if there is a Silva/Marquardt II and Silva comes into it unmotivated, I see an upset in the making.

[Stego]

Ok, this is something to write down. Picking undercards is stupid, but I would not mind it on record that I called you Rampage backers out.

Rashad will stop Rampage with little effort.

Can we stop overrating everyone who ever fought in Pride, please? Silva? Great. Machida? Great. Fedor? Great. No one else deserves the word. And Fedor is ducking fights, IMO.

[GSP]

Throw me on record as stating it is unlikely Rashad stops Rampage and not the other way around, and incredibly improbable that he stops Rampage with "little effort". I wish there was a way to throw a little money on the line between board members over issues like this (always keeps things interesting to have some pocket change on the outcomes).

Jackson's a dangerous fighter at lhw, period. Being from Pride doesn't come into it.

[Ser Barry]

Ok, this is something to write down. Picking undercards is stupid, but I would not mind it on record that I called you Rampage backers out.

Rashad will stop Rampage with little effort.

Can we stop overrating everyone who ever fought in Pride, please? Silva? Great. Machida? Great. Fedor? Great. No one else deserves the word. And Fedor is ducking fights, IMO.

I agree with you.

Now we know that Rampage is fucked.

[Stego]

Oh shit, time to rethink, Barry. :P

GSP, the tradition on these boards is the change the other persons name or title until the next event where they have the chance to win it back. I would jump at the chance to change your name to something that was more manly than one adult male sucking the crank of another adult male. (I bet you wear jerseys with others mens' name on them too, huh? :P )

That's me throwing down the gauntlet. Head to head. I pick Rashad to win. You picking it up?

ETA: My shit talking is just that. I have no animosity towards anyone. I am just having a little fun. If it bothers you, lemme know. Not trying to piss any of you wimps off. :P