Rugby

[ljkeane]

Name an out-half that's better than him. Not counting Jones, Wilkinson (because he's always injured) or Cipriani (because nothng's going to convince me that Cipriani is better than Rog atm).

I'm not saying he's awful, he does what Munster need him to do behind a dominant pack. But the best ten in the Northern Hemisphere is a bit of a leap.

Off the top of my head Jones, Wikinson, Nick Evans, Butch James, Glen Jackson, Nicky Robinson, Brock James and Juan Martin Hernandez (when he comes back) are all better flyhalfs than O'Gara. On top of that in terms of ability Hook, Cipriani, Biggar, Sexton, Flood and Geraghty are better than O'Gara and I'd expect several of them to surpass him at some point soon.

[Maltaran]

A few years ago, I would have agreed with Fireball. Now, though, O'Gara has gotten old.

Edit: And even when he was at his best, I would still argue that he was never as good as Neil Jenkins was.

[Fireball07]

When I said NH, I meant born there, eligible for those countries.

Jones is slightly better, though O'Gara's kicking out of hand is better.

All those other ones you named are from the SH.

Maybe Sexton, Flood and Hook will get better than him in the future, but that's because he's well into his 30s.

[ljkeane]

When I said NH, I meant born there, eligible for those countries.

Jones is slightly better, though O'Gara's kicking out of hand is better.

All those other ones you named are from the SH.

Maybe Sexton, Flood and Hook will get better than him in the future, but that's because he's well into his 30s.

In the Northern Hemisphere would indicate those playing in the Northern Hemisphere to me.

Anyway I'd still take Wilkinson, Jones and and Nicky Robinson ahead of O'Gara and Sexton, Flood, Hook, Cipriani, Biggar and Geraghty all have more ability than O'Gara ever had.

O'Gara is a reasonable kicking flyhalf but he's hardly a great player. He's a defensive liability, his passing isn't great and he rarely plays particularly flat to spark the backline. The absence of a larger number of flyhalfs who are better than him who are eligable for Northern Hemisphere countries is a reflection of the poor standard of recent Northern Hemisphere rugby rather than of O'Gara's abilities.

[Fireball07]

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with you. If Robinson, Sexton, Flood, Geraghty or Biggar were playing for Munster, they wouldn't get on the team. Warwick is a very good player, yet he has to make do with a full-back spot in the Munster team. Over the last 10 years, O'Gara has been the most important player in a successful Irish team.

All those other players are good, but O'Gara hasn't lost all that much recently, and still has the ability to win a game.

[Hereward]

No, O'Gara has been the biggest liability in an Ireland team that, with the other players it had, should have been dominating the 6N and seriously challenging at World Cups. The third Lions Test showcased exactly why they haven't done so. When it really matters and the pressure is on, unless the pack is in total control, O'Gara is a liability.

[Fireball07]

No, O'Gara has been the biggest liability in an Ireland team that, with the other players it had, should have been dominating the 6N and seriously challenging at World Cups. The third Lions Test showcased exactly why they haven't done so. When it really matters and the pressure is on, unless the pack is in total control, O'Gara is a liability.

That's just not true. Ireland don't have all that many top class players, and O'Gara has probably dragged us beyond where we have been. In the last two years, we have been getting more players: Ferris, Heaslip, Fitzgerald, Kearney & Earls are new enough. O'Gara was the most irreplacable player in the team, even moreso than O'Driscoll and Paulie.

[Maltaran]

O'Gara was the most irreplacable player in the team, even moreso than O'Driscoll and Paulie.

That just goes to show how mediocre the rest of the Irish team were, rather than anything exceptional about ROG.

[Fireball07]

That just goes to show how mediocre the rest of the Irish team were, rather than anything exceptional about ROG.

An Irish team that were among the best of the 6N over the last few years. Won the triple crown 3 times.

[Padraig]

That just goes to show how mediocre the rest of the Irish team were, rather than anything exceptional about ROG.

Well, i'd rephrase that. Ireland clearly wasn't mediocre. But they did have no alternatives to O'Gara. So in that way he was irreplaceable but he clearly wasn't our best player. :)

Sexton for Leinster and Humphreys for Ulster finally give us some options but they are still very raw.

[The WaterDancer Knight]

After this first round I think Biarritz, Clermont, Paris and Toulouse are strong candidates for the finals. I was impressed by their games and I expect all fours to finish first of their group. Biarritz won its four of fith victory in arow in Glasgow. As one of its player said, they've been sleeping since two years but now they're awake, they're back, and they're hungry ! :P Paris and Toulouse just killed the game in half and hours by scoring four or five tries. For Perpignan and Brive it seems the best they could expect is to get a best 2nd.

And another good news is Clerc is back at his best level. He scored his 29th and 30th tries in H cup. The first one being magnificent, the perfect try ! With South Africa coming soon, the French team will need him.

[The WaterDancer Knight]

My guess for the next round :

Group 1 :

USA Perpignan Northampton Saints -> Perpignan wins but Northampton get the DB

Munster Benetton Treviso -> Munster wins with the OB

Group 2 :

Gwent Dragons Glasgow Rugby -> I don't know how good or bad is the Gwent Dragons.

Biarritz Olympique Gloucester -> Biarritz wins without the OB and Gloucester doesn't get the BD

Group 3 :

Viadana Leicester Tigers -> Leicester wins with the OB

Ospreys Clermont Auvergne -> Ospreys wins without the OB and Clermont gets the DB

Groupe 4 :

Edimbourg Ulster -> Edimbourg wins without the OB Ulster gets the DB. Or a draw

Bath Rugby Stade Français -> Paris wins no OB or DB gained for either team.

Groupe 5 :

Sale Sharks Cardiff -> Sale must win at home. DB for Cardiff. Or a draw

Harlequins Stade Toulousain -> Toulouse wins with the OB.

Groupe 6 :

London Irish Scarlets -> London wins

CA Brive-Corrèze Leinster -> Leinster wins. Both teams need to win but I can't see Brive doing it.

[Padraig]

After this first round I think Biarritz, Clermont, Paris and Toulouse are strong candidates for the finals.

So you think France are going to do well this year then? ;)

[Fireball07]

Are Paris Stade?

They always start well and they always mess up. I expect Leicester to come ahead of Clermont, Toulouse should win their group alright.

[The WaterDancer Knight]

Are Paris Stade?

Stade Français is one of Paris's team. The other is Racing Metro better known as Racing Club de France.

They always start well and they always mess up. I expect Leicester to come ahead of Clermont, Toulouse should win their group alright.

I think Clermont can win its group this year, if for once they forget to mess up. But if Leicester wins, I expect Clermont to be best second and make it to quarter-finals.

Same thing for Paris. They can win their group but if they don't, they'll score enough points to qualify for the quarter-final.

Toulouse and Biarritz should win their group.

So you think France are going to do well this year then? ;)

Yes. :D

[Hereward]

I'm amused by Newcastle's excuse for losing to an Italian team. Apparently, Newcastle weren't prepared for wet weather rugby. :stunned:

[Padraig]

I'm amused by Newcastle's excuse for losing to an Italian team. Apparently, Newcastle weren't prepared for wet weather rugby. :stunned:

:lol:

[Vestrit]

I'm amused by Newcastle's excuse for losing to an Italian team. Apparently, Newcastle weren't prepared for wet weather rugby. :stunned:

To be fair, it’s a bit more tropical than they’re used to

[Hereward]

I'm not sure being fair to Newcastle is allowed. :unsure:

[ljkeane]

Two good games tonight.

Sale were unexpectadly quite decent against Cardiff, especially Koyaimabole at 8 but having said that an awful yellow card decision had a massive impact on the game. I don't how the hell Perpignan lost to Treviso, they absolutely smashed Northampton up front and they looked pretty decent in the backs as well.