Metal Thread III: Lone Wolf and Metal

[WhiteHaven]

Well, I was listening to Melodic Death Metal for a long time but I really have to say that I did not listen to Metal since..well something like two years. Dunno why. So I guess I will just try your recs Xray :)

Thank you. I will come back to post s.th here after listening to those fellas.

[Durckad]

Another very obvious choice (again from the progressive metal subgenre) is Queensryche. Their concept album Operation: Mindcrime is heavily political. It has the added benefit of being totally awesome. Both the previous album Rage for Order and the subsequent Empire have political/sociopolitical overtones as well, but aren't as strong musically. (Mormont disagrees with my assessment of RfO, which he considers superior to O:M.)

Rage for Order is the shit. Maybe not as awesome as Operation: Mindcrime, but not much nothing is.

Machine Head's The Blackening is pretty political and is also quite good.

[Tsavong Lah]

I know I'm a little late to join the chorus, but Disturbed really sucks. I listened to them when I was a rebellious 16-year old kid (I thought I was being edgy and dangerous and that Disturbed was the heaviest thing ever). In hindsight the things I was attracted to at the time were the most juvenile parts of it, which honestly is a large portion of their sound. I won't tell you that you suck, but I will pull out the classic "your favorite band sucks".

Political metal? There is a lot of stuff, all over the political spectrum and varying in how overt the politics are. As has been mentioned, progressive metal is a hotbed for it. Dream Theater has some really great songs like "The Great Debate" and "Sacrificed Sons". As for a cheesy Power Metal band, you could check out Nostradameus. They have super-cheesy songs like Fight that are none too subtle. Thrash also gets political, but a lot of it is framed more as societal issues, which, imo, are all actually political.

[MercenaryChef]

I know I'm a little late to join the chorus, but Disturbed really sucks. I listened to them when I was a rebellious 16-year old kid (I thought I was being edgy and dangerous and that Disturbed was the heaviest thing ever). In hindsight the things I was attracted to at the time were the most juvenile parts of it, which honestly is a large portion of their sound. I won't tell you that you suck, but I will pull out the classic "your favorite band sucks".

i am not a fan of this disturbed.

however, why cannot someone like something just because they like it?

i recall being a young roguish metalhead in days gone by. and i mean in a time before it was divided into a million subgenres and the goal was to know more obscure bands than your peers. we were metalheads and we were outcasts. we were losers. we were the guys no cool girl would possibly fuck. and we liked it that way. but, we liked it together, that small group of us. somewhere, somehow along the way metal has been co-opted by all manners of pretentious asshole wanker douches who use their brilliance of subgenre a or b to lord over others. when in fact did this happen? it did not happen during the era of maiden and priest. it did not happen when slayer and metallica rules supreme. it is something new. i miss the old days of metal when one metalhead could just gesture to the megadeth or deicide t-shirt you were wearing and flash the horns. you would give the thumbs up to him and a distant brotherhood would be formed. instead now, some arsehole prick will stop and tell you how the last three deicide albums were shit, the transitions awful, suggest a million death bands from mongolia who are 'so brutal and so underground' and then be on his merry pretentious way. no thank you.

but, i guess i am just old.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Rage for Order is the shit. Maybe not as awesome as Operation: Mindcrime, but not much nothing is.

It's kind of like arguing with yourself which awesome single malt whisky is better, Laphroaig or Caol Ila? In the end, it's all pretty awesome. :)

i recall being a young roguish metalhead in days gone by. and i mean in a time before it was divided into a million subgenres and the goal was to know more obscure bands than your peers.

There has always been a certain slice of the underground (just like every other underground music movement that ever existed) that behaves this way. I knew people in the 80s who'd scoff at anyone who liked Metallica because they were "sellouts." You as a young metalhead without benefit of the internet might not have cared or paid any attention to these things, but that doesn't mean that they didn't exist. So yeah, you're old. I'm even older than you are. And we're both old enough to ignore the idiots and enjoy what we enjoy. :cheers:

In any case, I'm happy to let people listen to whatever the hell they want to so long as they're not making me listen to it, too.

ETA: And because I am that kind of asshole, I just looked for death metal bands from Mongolia on Metal Archives. There is one. (A second is described as funeral doom/death metal, but that's a far cry from Deicide.) I will listen to it on the way to work today and a review will be forthcoming. :P

[Xray the Enforcer]

Thrash also gets political, but a lot of it is framed more as societal issues, which, imo, are all actually political.

I'm going to let the resident thrash experts weigh in on that style. (As an aside, I have been listening to Watchtower -- Control and Resistance -- lately. Damn, but that album is great!) I agree that societal issues are political, which is why I asked for clarification from WhiteHaven on what he meant by "political." Even further than that, things that we wouldn't necessarily consider to be political issues in the States or UK -- pagan or anti-Christian lyrics, for example -- take on distinct political overtones when being produced or performed in a country like Poland, which actively enforces blasphemy laws. In that sense, every band from Poland who expresses anti-Christian or theistic Satanist opinions is engaging in a form of political protest.

[Yagathai]

every band from Poland who expresses anti-Christian or theistic Satanist opinions is engaging in a form of political protest.

Hippies.

[Space Bandito]

It depends if you want to stay in Metal or branch out into hardcore/punk etc.

For "Political Metal" the outward messages are limited. Suicidal Tendencies, Megadeth. :dunno: For Nevermore I own this Godless Endeavor. It is kind of Meh. I would probably classify Primordial as having some nationalism tones. I guess it depends how you classify political.

Rammstien often criticize social issues or goverment. They just do so in German. That is all I can think of in the metal genre.

[Tsavong Lah]

i am not a fan of this disturbed.

however, why cannot someone like something just because they like it?

i recall being a young roguish metalhead in days gone by. and i mean in a time before it was divided into a million subgenres and the goal was to know more obscure bands than your peers. we were metalheads and we were outcasts. we were losers. we were the guys no cool girl would possibly fuck. and we liked it that way. but, we liked it together, that small group of us. somewhere, somehow along the way metal has been co-opted by all manners of pretentious asshole wanker douches who use their brilliance of subgenre a or b to lord over others. when in fact did this happen? it did not happen during the era of maiden and priest. it did not happen when slayer and metallica rules supreme. it is something new. i miss the old days of metal when one metalhead could just gesture to the megadeth or deicide t-shirt you were wearing and flash the horns. you would give the thumbs up to him and a distant brotherhood would be formed. instead now, some arsehole prick will stop and tell you how the last three deicide albums were shit, the transitions awful, suggest a million death bands from mongolia who are 'so brutal and so underground' and then be on his merry pretentious way. no thank you.

but, i guess i am just old.

I just want to be clear, the "your favorite band sucks" line was meant to be taken tongue-in-cheek. Bands like Disturbed were a gateway for me into metal, so I have to respect the fact that their existence probably means a larger fanbase eventually for bands that I like (which gives the band an incentive to keep going).

The constant effort put forth to find the most obscure and brutal bands does get a little ridiculous. At lots of metal forums you get berated for saying you like the new album by any band that is even somewhat well known. There philosophy is that a well-known band can't make good albums, and only the albums they released before they were well known are any good. Good music only comes from obscure bands that I've never even heard of, and I feel that I'm pretty well versed in metal. I hate those places. Pretty much the only online metal discussion I ever have is right here in this board, because there is a lot more respect for each other. Sure, occasionally we might straight up say that something sucks, but rarely in a rude way or just dismissing it out of hand.

I personally get a thrill whenever I meet someone wearing a metal shirt (even if it is a band I don't really like that much) and will strike up a conversation. I can't say I'd do that with someone wearing a Disturbed shirt, though, as I wouldn't think someone wearing that shirt would also listen to stuff I enjoy. I'd be afraid that they'd want to talk about Slipknot.

[Weak With The Dawn]

I would probably classify Primordial as having some nationalism tones. I guess it depends how you classify political.

I could see calling Primordial political, but it's more retroactive. Alan (Nemtheanga, w/e) is certainly outspoken and passionate politically but his music generally focuses on the long ago plights of the Irish instead of present day events.

I'd be curious about a Primordial album channeling that mans rage towards the current Irish political agenda, considering how scary he gets when singing about the past, I imagine it would be quite intense.

[Space Bandito]

Its kind of the same with "Christian" Metal. Many bands get classified such simply because in an interview someone divulged that they liked Jesus. The definitions can get kind of loose.

[Weak With The Dawn]

Its kind of the same with "Christian" Metal. Many bands get classified such simply because in an interview someone divulged that they liked Jesus. The definitions can get kind of loose.

Yeah it does get a little odd. Calling something Christian because a band member happens to BE Christian is equivalent to calling Gorgoroth "Teacher Metal" or "Kindergarten Metal" because of King's profession, or "Gay Metal/Sundress Metal" because of Ghaal (no I have not seen this done...yet).

Labels are thrown around pretty easily in the Metal world, it gets overwhelming sometimes.

[Morrigan]

Never heard of Christian metal being considered like that. Nobody has ever called Gamma Ray christian metal; it's bands like Extol, Mortification, Tourniquet, Believer and so on that are called "Christian metal".

Incidentally, they all suck too. :D

[Black Wizard]

As I Lay Dying are openly Christian. They don't sing about Jesus or any Biblical craps so I wouldn't call them Christian metal.

[Morrigan]

Well, that's fair. I'd hesitate in calling them metal at all. :P

[Xray the Enforcer]

My only experience with Christian metal was when I was ambushed by a Stryper video on MTV, way back in the day. Even as a pre-teen, I knew it was shit. :lol:

Mongolian Death Metal

Ayasiin Salhi -- Coffin Town Under The Moon

Well, they are no Deicide. This isn't to say it's bad, it just isn't great. AS play perfectly serviceable if uninspired old school death metal, mainly mid-fast tempo songs with some heavy riffs and harsh vocals and the occasional solo. The first two real tracks (the album has a short intro) sound alike, which is a shitty way to start your album. Every now and then, a cool riff or bass line will emerge from the murk and you think "oh hey, maybe this'll really rock," and then the music will descend into mediocrity again. So, rest easy MC. The next time someone tries to diss your tastes with the superiority of Mongolian death metal, you can tell them to fuck off because you know that it sucks. ;)

[Black Wizard]

Well, that's fair. I'd hesitate in calling them metal at all. :P

Have you ever listened to them at all?

[Yagathai]

Have you ever listened to them at all?

Yeah, that's helpful.

I don't about Morrigan, but I have listened to them at all, and I have to say that while some of their stuff is definitely (mediocre) metal, some of it is pretty solidly crap nu-metalcore. They're less metal than, say, Killswitch Engage or Trivium, and those guys can be borderline themselves.

[lessthanluke]

I like As I Lay Dying and have seen them twice :lol:

[Black Wizard]

Just because you think a band is crap doesn't mean they're not metal. Yes, Killswitch Engage, As I Lay Dying and Trivium are all Metalcore bands but they are Metal bands. Their influences are Metal, they play Metal and they sound Metal. (Killswitch verge over lyrically a lot though.) Saying that these bands aren't Metal is elitist and ignorant. I am aware that most of their fans are scene-kids but that doesn't stop from being Metal.