A Thread for Small Questions II

[Lady Blackfish]

The first one, The Hedge Knight, was published in the Legends anthology from 1998. The second one, The Sworn Sword, was published in Legends II from 2003. The latest one, The Mystery Knight, was published just a few months ago in the Warriors anthology edited by GRRM and Gardner Dozois. The first two were also released as graphic novels, both adapted by Mike Miller.

I recommend reading the original stories first, though I love the art in the graphic novels. I'm really overdue for a reread myself, I'd like to do that before getting around to TMK.

[jadedatmidnight]

I love the books and Martin for them, but WOW! After reading a few posts I find that I'm just a rookie. The posts some make are a bit 'gypsy-looking in the ball' to me. I guess I never tried to delve too far into the characters ,or Martin's mindset for that matter, as those here. I DO think Coldhands is Benjen and Jon is the son of Lyanna/Rhaegar...but yeah

[Aubrem]

I'm doing a reread and just got to where it's said that Renly's body goes missing after he's killed. I'd forgotten that. Do we find out why later?

[TrueMetis]

I'm doing a reread and just got to where it's said that Renly's body goes missing after he's killed. I'd forgotten that. Do we find out why later?

Loras takes the body and buries it in a place Renly had shown him. I can't quite remember why.

[Aubrem]

Loras takes the body and buries it in a place Renly had shown him. I can't quite remember why.

ohhhhh, yes. Now I remember. Thanks.

That seems like an odd, unnecessary detail for GRRM to put in there. It doesn't move the story forward. All it does is make clearer Renly and Loras' relationship. I wonder if there's more to it ...

[Ran]

It was a place Renly loved, that's all. It's a detail that provides not just a picture of their relationship, but some characterization for Renly and Loras. Not everything GRRM writes is about the plot. Much of it is about the characters. :)

[A wilding]

Plus having Renly's body disappear added a bit of depth to the plot twist of his ghost turning up to fight in the Battle of the Blackwater.

[-colten-]

The first one, The Hedge Knight, was published in the Legends anthology from 1998. The second one, The Sworn Sword, was published in Legends II from 2003. The latest one, The Mystery Knight, was published just a few months ago in the Warriors anthology edited by GRRM and Gardner Dozois. The first two were also released as graphic novels, both adapted by Mike Miller.

I recommend reading the original stories first, though I love the art in the graphic novels. I'm really overdue for a reread myself, I'd like to do that before getting around to TMK.

would they maybe be in dreamsong? i have both of those.

[Ran]

"The Hedge Knight" is. Not "The Sworn Sword" or the just-published "The Mystery Knight".

[schrecklich]

that's about where i am now. it was a little bit before that. i forget who said it. am i right at all in assuming that catelyn is "alive" again?

Hmm, okay, did you read the epilogue to A Storm of Swords?

The closest thing I can find to something conflating the Hound with "a woman" is the dinner scene when Jaime visits Darry. They're talking about hanging Merrett Frey though, not sacking a town. The town that was sacked by the "Hound" was Saltpans, but I can't find anything in the text that says "a woman" led the attack there.

[A wilding]

And indeed, seeing it was the Bloody Mummers who sacked Saltpans, with Rorge wearing the Hound's helm, it would be unlikely that there would be any reports of women being involved.

[-colten-]

maybe i'm crazy then. i could've sworn someone mentioned a woman. oh well. i think i'm set straight now. i just finished AFFC, since i know everyone really cares haha.

[Errant Bard]

Okay, well, I can't say that I've taken a straw poll, but it was my impression that it was a widely held opinion. Here is a nice presentation of the relevant information. If Littlefinger can scare Sansa into being Alayne, I'd imagine he (along with the Boltons) wouldn't have much trouble scaring Jeyne into being Arya (it's a station in life high above anything she could have hoped for any way).

That link is forgetting the most damning piece yet: Cersei in AFFC:

“In any case,” the queen went on, “Lord Eddard’s younger daughter is with Lord Bolton, and will be wed to his son Ramsay as soon as Moat Cailin has fallen.” So long as the girl played her role well enough to cement their claim to Winterfell, neither of the Boltons would much care that she was actually some steward’s whelp tricked up by Littlefinger.

maybe i'm crazy then. i could've sworn someone mentioned a woman. oh well. i think i'm set straight now. i just finished AFFC, since i know everyone really cares haha.

When Brienne is at Maidenpoole talking to Randyll Tarly after her Cracklaw Point expedition, they talk about how Beric and Lady Stoneheart are hanging their guys and the Hound joined them, maybe, it's probably what's you're thinking of. The only women mentioned in relation with Saltpans where those horribly raped and killed:

“Clegane’s turned outlaw. He rides with Beric Dondarrion now, it would seem. Or not, the tales vary. Show me where they’re hiding, I will gladly slit their bellies open, pull their entrails out, and burn them. We’ve hanged dozens of outlaws, but the leaders still elude us. Clegane, Dondarrion, the red priest, and now this woman Stoneheart . . . how do you propose to find them, when I cannot?”

[silentrealm]

I don't recall that passage exactly. It sounds like it was from the end of AFfC after Lem Lemoncloak had taken possession of the Hound's houndshead helm (after Brienne killed its former wearer, Rorge).

Okay, well, I can't say that I've taken a straw poll, but it was my impression that it was a widely held opinion. Here is a nice presentation of the relevant information. If Littlefinger can scare Sansa into being Alayne, I'd imagine he (along with the Boltons) wouldn't have much trouble scaring Jeyne into being Arya (it's a station in life high above anything she could have hoped for any way).

Now I have a question.

Has anyone compiled a list of Night's Watch members confirmed or strongly believed to have supported Aerys during Robert's rebellion and taken the black after Robert's coronation? The only one I know for sure is Ser Alliser Thorne, though I suspect many of the older knights (the most competent Night's Watch members) joined in this way.

after reading that link it does make sense. poor jeyne :(

[-colten-]

That link is forgetting the most damning piece yet: Cersei in AFFC:

“In any case,” the queen went on, “Lord Eddard’s younger daughter is with Lord Bolton, and will be wed to his son Ramsay as soon as Moat Cailin has fallen.” So long as the girl played her role well enough to cement their claim to Winterfell, neither of the Boltons would much care that she was actually some steward’s whelp tricked up by Littlefinger.

When Brienne is at Maidenpoole talking to Randyll Tarly after her Cracklaw Point expedition, they talk about how Beric and Lady Stoneheart are hanging their guys and the Hound joined them, maybe, it's probably what's you're thinking of. The only women mentioned in relation with Saltpans where those horribly raped and killed:

“Clegane’s turned outlaw. He rides with Beric Dondarrion now, it would seem. Or not, the tales vary. Show me where they’re hiding, I will gladly slit their bellies open, pull their entrails out, and burn them. We’ve hanged dozens of outlaws, but the leaders still elude us. Clegane, Dondarrion, the red priest, and now this woman Stoneheart . . . how do you propose to find them, when I cannot?”

that sounds right, yeah.

[schrecklich]

that sounds right, yeah.

I kind of remembered something like your original paraphrasing, colten, but I couldn't find it while looking back through the text. In any case, things are a bit confusing in AFfC regarding the Hound, Stoneheart, etc because Martin is trying to give a sense of the uncertainty and misinformation around the realm at that point in time -- by presenting the reader with uncertainty and misinformation (in the form of characters relating secondhand reports).

[-colten-]

so basically he achieved his goal of confusing me.

[PestilencE]

Several questions:

1) Why is Melisandre so eager to burn Edric Storm? Surely she is aware that not even she can bring a stone dragon to life. Was it a spark of fanaticism or does she have other reasons?

2) Do we actually find out whom Robb has named his heir?

3) Did Ramsay Snow coordinate his earlier actions with his father? I mean, the whole Lady Hornwood story... Reason I'm asking is, I wanted to trace from how far back Roose Bolton planned his betrayal to Robb.

[Ran]

Why is Melisandre so eager to burn Edric Storm? Surely she is aware that not even she can bring a stone dragon to life. Was it a spark of fanaticism or does she have other reasons?

My belief is that she genuinely believes that the sacrifice of royal blood will allow her to bring to life one of the Valyrian-worked stone dragons of Dragonstone. Shireens nightmare seems prescient, in this regard.

Do we actually find out whom Robb has named his heir?

I think it is very strongly implied that he did legitimize Jon and make him his heir. Of course, what value is the legitimacy of a dead king, one attainted a traitor and rebel by those who are now in power?

Did Ramsay Snow coordinate his earlier actions with his father?

I think the exact details were up to Ramsay, but the fact that Roose left such a strong garrison (600 men, compared to the relative handful that the Starks kept) suggests he was preparing for the possibility. Possibly Roose suggested the course of action, re: Lady Hornwood, when she was widowed (and her widowhood may have come, in part, by design -- Roose seems to have placed a number of the staunchest Stark supporters in the most dangerous places at the Green Fork).

[A wilding]

1) Why not? After all, burning three leeches (apparently) killed three kings. But perhaps the plan is not quite what she tells Stannis it is ...

2) It is not spelt out, so there is a theoretical possibility he changed his mind between talking to Catelyn and making the announcement.

3) The extent of coordination is not certain, but there was presumably at least some. Roose did keep open the option of disowning Ramsay and staying on Robb's side right up until his dinner with Jaime in ASoS.