US army murders Reuters journalists and civilians

[awesome possum]

I know marines, and they hate the Hurt Locker. First, it plays into their idea the Army is a bunch of cowards. Second, they enjoy killing people. Honest to god, they love their job. They enlisted to defend their nation, by killing other people.

Well, now that some sociopaths have been represented, I guess the thread is over.

[jurble]

Well, now that some sociopaths have been represented, I guess the thread is over.

But it's not sociopathic behavior.

There's statistics out there, that in previous wars, a large chunk of soldiers intentionally aimed away from their enemies not to kill people. Like as much as 60% in WW 2. The Army and the Marines have brought that nearly down to 0.

Basically, they can interact normally with their friends and family. A sociopath can't do that. Think Dexter, a real sociopath is acting all the time. The idea of our Armed Forces' training is to allow you to kill. And some people enjoy their jobs. Were all Spartans sociopaths? Were all Vikings? Were Celts who rode into battle naked? They were trained as soldiers. And they enjoy their job.

[drl84]

Surprised that no one has said anything about this . . .

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100405/world/afghanistan_unrest_nato_civilians_1

The NATO International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) said in a statement late Sunday that its troops were responsible for the women's deaths in a village near Gardez, the capital of eastern Paktya province, on February 12.

Two newspapers -- the New York Times and Britain's The Times -- said Monday that the foreign troops involved in the shooting were members of US special forces who tried to cover up the deaths by removing bullets from the bodies

[jurble]

Surprised that no one has said anything about this . . .

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100405/world/afghanistan_unrest_nato_civilians_1

Somebody did bring it up.

It's on the first or second page.

edit: Whoa it isn't, I'm discussing this video on my guild forums too. It must've been linked over there.

[drl84]

Somebody did bring it up.

It's on the first or second page.

Saw a lot of stuff about shooting up the Van and stuff about the mentality of soldiers.

Didn't see anything about Soldiers digging out bullets from civilians.

[Shryke]

First, I never sent anyone anywhere, so you can take that line of bullshit and shove it right back where you got it.

*cough*Location:Bloomington, IN*cough*

Your country, run by your government that you elect sure as hell did.

"You" in this case obviously referring to US citizens in general (or British citizens or whoever with Military in the area in question).

So yeah, stop with the idiotic deliberate obtuseness.

Second, can you find me a line anywhere in the Army, Navy, Air Force or Marine rules or code of conduct or any written piece of official literature that says the job of those who enlist is to kill and only kill? Anywhere? Please.

Can you find me the part where killing is not part of the job?

Finally, your implications about my implications are laughable and stupid. You can put that in the same place you returned the line of bullshit.

You mean right next to the post where you said it? "We easily killed people from the relatively safety and distance that our advanced technology provides us"

You act like there's something wrong with killing them from a safe distance. This is called "Common Sense".

Basically, you seem to be getting all pissy that war involves killing people.

You can not like War, that's fine. But once you start one, don't get all upset cause suddenly there's alot of bodies piling up.

[Warg Arry]

Soldiers have to find ways to disconnect from what they have to do. If they assigned meaning to every bullet etc. Or if they saw themselves, brothers, sisters, Mothers, Fathers, partners and their children in the people they are ordered to consider the enemy. ( And I noticed the wording "firing on women and children" > like they aren't being actively used to kill and maim in this war) Then they would be killed very quickly. If not by others then by their own hand.

As it is. When these soldiers are getting home they aren't coping. a lot are suffering with PTSD. their relationships fall apart.

And is it any wonder. When we, who are obviously more civilised and better than them. Constantly enter into rhetoric about their actions, visit their motives and feelings. And pass judgement on them.

When in truth we have not a F*^%ing clue what their lives were like. Because we, being civilised and better than them. get to get up in the morning, get safely to work. Come home to our honeys and babies and go to bed relatively sure we'll be up the next day living our civilised better than them lives.

And Sure it was all covered up then. while the media could feast on a story like this. and political careers could be harmed.. About 20 - 30 years from now we can have those bastards dragged out of the nursing homes frightened and frail dragging their oxygen tanks behind them. prosecute them. Bring "experts" that have analyzed the footage and give evidence about how it makes them murderers over soldiers. and then we can really make them pay.

War has been happening for as long as humanity has been. and we still act surprised at how war works.

Still I suppose we should not be expected to give up compassion and empathy in our every day lives just because there is a war. But there are two sides > and then some..to this.

You just can't know what they need to do to survive and get through it.

[jurble]

Saw a lot of stuff about shooting up the Van and stuff about the mentality of soldiers.

Didn't see anything about Soldiers digging out bullets from civilians.

Yeah, I edited my post.

[drl84]

http://www.gq.com/news-politics/politics/201003/few-proud-broken

Story about 3 former Marines who are attempting to cope with PTSD after the fact, as well as the general attitude on mental health within the Marines as being caustic.

And for the record, I think there is a difference between an honest mistake (accidently shooting civilians in a hot zone) vs. covering up said mistake in an arena you already control (phyiscally digging out the bullets and denying it ever happened)

[Shryke]

Surprised that no one has said anything about this . . .

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/100405/world/afghanistan_unrest_nato_civilians_1

Um ... because it has nothing to do with the story this thread is about?

[drl84]

Um ... because it has nothing to do with the story this thread is about?

Same vein of mistakenly killing non combatants and the whole 'cover up' thing. I suppose I could have explained the rational of why I included the link a bit more.

[Relic]

So the pilots are the murderers or the generals that send them or the politicians that order them sent or the corporations that own the politicians?

We are all complicit. You can argue that the pilots are more so, since they are pulling the physical trigger, especially if they enjoy doing so. Actually, i can't excuse those that enjoy it.

Having said that, i know that all this is a microcosm of a much greater issue in our society, so we are in full agreement there.

[Lord Mord]

Ser Possum,

Well, now that some sociopaths have been represented, I guess the thread is over.

Which statement here most typifies the sociopathic response? How are you defining sociopath?

[ThinkerX]

I've known a number of military folks down through the years (bad back kept me out of the Army).

Two thoughts come to mind here:

First is something one of these guys told me right before he was shipped out to one of the war zones of the late 80's or 90's (forget which one - Panama? Yugoslavia? maybe Gulf War I?) Anyhow, his comment was along the lines of 'Now I'll finally get a chance to kill somebody.' That was the goal of his military career - to legally go out and kill somebody. (don't know if he ever got his wish, never saw him again).

In the same vein, I knew a marine who spent time posted at a 'secret' US base in the middle of nowhere. Real, real boring. One day, word comes down they have a civilian plane that has to make an emergency landing at this installation, which the brass goes along with in a ticked off sort of way. He was among the detail sent out to make sure the civilians did not go *anywhere* unless cleared; he and his buddies were just waiting for these people - who'd basically been through a semi-controlled plane crash - to say the slightest wrong thing or make the tiniest wrong move so they could stomp them but good.

The other thought that leaps to mind here is, that from everything I've seen, read, and heard, there are a *lot* of seriously screwed up US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan these days. As in 'psycho killer' screwed up. And it won't be all that much longer before these guys get shipped home, cut loose from the military, and find themselves jobless and unwanted. Imagine what they'll do then.

[jurble]

The other thought that leaps to mind here is, that from everything I've seen, read, and heard, there are a *lot* of seriously screwed up US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan these days. As in 'psycho killer' screwed up. And it won't be all that much longer before these guys get shipped home, cut loose from the military, and find themselves jobless and unwanted. Imagine what they'll do then.

[Stego]

I know marines... they enjoy killing people.

...

You know reservist pukes and children who haven't seen combat yet.

[ThinkerX]

Jurble's you-tube pick got deleted already...which says something in and of itself...

[jurble]

Whaat, it works for me. It's the Ambalamps fight.

[jurble]

...

You know reservist pukes and children who haven't seen combat yet.

One's a Marine in Afghanistan involved in the Helmand offensive, the other served in Iraq and Afghanistan and is in Japan atm.

Pics:

http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/7421/ld81b915fcf30f10262a48ddl4.jpg - The Iraq/Afghan and now in Japan guy

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs464.snc3/25466_363195540599_643580599_5294459_3592424_n.jpg -Guy in Afghanistan

http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/152/l_2500dc326f164243a62b175117f77c15.jpg - Same guy as the one above, he has the giant gun.

[ThinkerX]

You know reservist pukes and children who haven't seen combat yet.

Used to slightly know a few vietnam era vets who were down right scary to be around.

The one that sticks out here I ran into in a pawn shop a couple years ago. He got to chatting with the owner, who happened to mention that so-and-so had dropped by with a 'business deal' (one of the endless low end quasi scams out there, basically). The vets attitude gets scary in a hurry, he says 'Good thing he didn't try that with me, coz I'd have killed him. Ever since 'nam, human life has meant nothing to me.'

Havn't meant all that many returnee's from Iraq and Afghanistan yet, though some (distant) relatives of mine are over there; but again, from everything I read, see, and hear, a lot of these people are getting very seriously screwed up in the head as a result of this experience.