Boarders Writing a Novel Thread 4

[Myrddin]

I have a basic structure to how I want to tell it, but I'm still a bit lost as to how to end it, and how to detail it. Malik is both the protagonist and the antagonist; he's seen as evil because he's trying to bring down heaven and the self-imposed "living gods", not to mention his methods, but also as good because he and his party see it as liberating the world from "evil dicators" in order to share the technology with the world. So I guess the reader kind of picks their own side.

To me, this would be the intriguing twist. Have a mortal who believes the gods are good and Malik is evil learn the truth. In essence, you're making "Satan" the hero (or at least the savior who points the way to the truth). Make his/her journey of discovery the same as the reader's. Also, you avoid a "what's come before" type of exposition until the reader is ready (and eager) to hear it.

If Malik is your main character, then it's less intriguing, since he knows everything that has happened and knows the truth in the matter. There's no where for him to go as a character.

Your protagonist needs to change, so the s/he can be either a mortal (worshipper) or an immortal (agent of "good") who completely believes what they're doing is right.

The later reminds me a bit of the movie Underworld, where Selene hunted werewolves because she believed they were "evil" and started the war against the vampires, when in fact her "father" was the one who started the conflict. This is a fun journey to take, as a reader, since your preconceived notions are completely turned around by the end. I loved in Underworld how Lucian went from Head Evil Guy to Tragic Hero.

OR your protagonist can be an agent of change from the beginning, someone who goes to the Nine Kingdoms to sow dissent in anticipation of Malik's invasion.

Of course, these ideas may not be the book you're imagining at all. :) They're more to get you thinking than to tell you how or what to write.

[Prince Who Was Promised]

To me, this would be the intriguing twist. Have a mortal who believes the gods are good and Malik is evil learn the truth. In essence, you're making "Satan" the hero (or at least the savior who points the way to the truth). Make his/her journey of discovery the same as the reader's. Also, you avoid a "what's come before" type of exposition until the reader is ready (and eager) to hear it.

...

Of course, these ideas may not be the book you're imagining at all. :) They're more to get you thinking than to tell you how or what to write.

Actually, that's quite interesting. Having an Androcrat discover the truth about their "gods" (basically that they're genetic engineered humans that like to keep all the technology for themselves) crossed my mind once, but I never really thought about it. Know that I think about it, it might be better to have Malik be a more distant figure for the first (few) part(s) of the story. Maybe I just need to start reading more, but I haven't seen many books where the seemingly typical Dark Lord/Satan figure is revealed to be a sort of "good guy" with just intentions (Mistborn doesn't count, IMO).

I'm still at a loss at how to tie it all up. I could have Malik kill Gabriel (the leader of the Immortals) and then dissapear, leaving nothing but his legacy and a new world. Or I could have Malik and Gabriel end up destroying themselves, leaving humanity to puzzle out how to move forward. I'm just not sure I've come up wit the best ending yet.

[Zoë Sumra]

I'm still at a loss at how to tie it all up. I could have Malik kill Gabriel (the leader of the Immortals) and then dissapear, leaving nothing but his legacy and a new world. Or I could have Malik and Gabriel end up destroying themselves, leaving humanity to puzzle out how to move forward. I'm just not sure I've come up wit the best ending yet.

Don't sweat the ending until you have the rest of the book. Write it with the fun of working out what happens still to come.

I also like the idea of the mortal who thinks Malik is evil becoming less sure of this over the course of the book. It would give late-book emotional uncertainty that could make it really unclear to the readers which way such a mortal main-character is going to swing in the end.

[Prince Who Was Promised]

Don't sweat the ending until you have the rest of the book. Write it with the fun of working out what happens still to come.

I usually like to visualize what I want to happen at the end, so that when writing, I know where I'm going and don't wander aimlessly. I can't really think of another way to do it.

[Starkess]

I'm still at a loss at how to tie it all up. I could have Malik kill Gabriel (the leader of the Immortals) and then dissapear, leaving nothing but his legacy and a new world. Or I could have Malik and Gabriel end up destroying themselves, leaving humanity to puzzle out how to move forward. I'm just not sure I've come up wit the best ending yet.

I like the world-building you are working with so far, although it's a toss-up if I'm more interested in the original Order's story or the later Malik story. If you go for the "slow reveal" with Malik's backstory, perhaps you have material already for a prequel!

As far as the ending, I like the latter (Malik and Gabriel destroy themselves). I'm a big fan of the "humanity/people/group/person realizes they have to rely on themselves and not untouchable authority" trope. It is, of course, entirely up to you, but I thought I'd pitch in my two cents.

[Prince Who Was Promised]

I like the world-building you are working with so far, although it's a toss-up if I'm more interested in the original Order's story or the later Malik story. If you go for the "slow reveal" with Malik's backstory, perhaps you have material already for a prequel!

Hmmm, I never gave a prequel much thought. I'd assume it'd have to start with the brith of the Twleve, and end with the War of Heaven, climaxing with Gabriel supposedly killing Malik.

As far as the ending, I like the latter (Malik and Gabriel destroy themselves). I'm a big fan of the "humanity/people/group/person realizes they have to rely on themselves and not untouchable authority" trope. It is, of course, entirely up to you, but I thought I'd pitch in my two cents.

I'm considering the latter as well. Right now the closet I am to using is Malik killing Gabriel, but Gabriel striking Malik a mortal blow. After both pass away, humanity is left to pick themselves up. Althought it'd be far from peaceful (futuristic technology still running wild, mutant-men and humans having to overcome racial predjudices and work together, etc).

[Zoë Sumra]

Having very "meh" thoughts about writing today. Probably to do with having had an insanely busy weekend with another one coming up; no time to breathe. :( Am trying to find some enthusiasm for my remaining sixty-two pages of red pen... plus the stuff I did badly at the start of the edit phase so have to redo...

[Starkess]

Trucking right along on my re-write. Chapter one down! Having fun adding scenes, just had an interesting idea to add some motivation to one of my characters which I think will add some more depth to the novel.

I also started up a dedicated writing blog, because I don't like mixing it in with my normal bitching on my LJ. Heh. http://nora-writes.blogspot.com/ So far using it as motivational tool and not a procrastination tool, hopefully that stays that way!

Having very "meh" thoughts about writing today. Probably to do with having had an insanely busy weekend with another one coming up; no time to breathe. :( Am trying to find some enthusiasm for my remaining sixty-two pages of red pen... plus the stuff I did badly at the start of the edit phase so have to redo...

:grouphug: I know those days for sure! Good luck

[Ealdorman Halasahr]

I'm finally starting to write on the sequel to my first (as of yet unpublished) novel. And it's going slow but well, thus far. Soon I'll be attacking a scene where my PoV-character ends up in the middle of a fight in a park. Yes, it's still fantasy, and yes, there's still magic involved, though I dare say the good old crossbows will win this time around.

I haven't been all that motivated for quite some time, so I'm actually looking forward to this fall, and the darkness, so I can stay indoors and write, and write, and write, and ...

[SerNotAppearingOnThisBoard]

Corn sucks. I used to be able to look out my bedroom window and see stark bluffs and mountains and stuff. Now it's all corn.

My goals at this point might be nearly impossible to achieve, but damned if I'm not going to try. Seventeen chapters of my epic fantasy piece need revising. My goal: two a week, while also getting as far as I can in my urban/comic fantasy piece. This will all likely be compounded by the fact that I'll be taking an online course starting in September and will hopefully have some kind of a job soon.

After that, NaNoWriMo, for which I have something completely different to work on.

Taking a break at the moment to eat breakfast and compose a blog post about the cultural landscape of the United States and how it related to fantasy writing.

[kuenjato]

I hit a personal milestone last week. A little more than ten years ago I began working on a novel as a relaxing alternative to the 'monster project' of those days. It started quite spontaniously, quickly took shape, and developed into a mini-obession of its own in the matter of a few months. But with further conceptualization also came a certain... responsibility, I suppose, to the project as a whole. Eventually I managed to compose roughly 50% of this piece--a pulpy sci-fi--before putting it on hiatus sometime in 2002. I felt the core idea was strong, perhaps one of my strongest at that time, but I recognized that I didn't have the chops (or, in the very least, the experience) to do it justice.

Last year, while enrolled in a screenwriting class, I developed a script version of the novel, and decided that the time had come to complete the novel. Of course, I didn't actually manage to get back to it until this summer, when I've had a job that requires almost no actual work and thus lots of writing time. After finishing the latest epic-fantasy "beast", I thought returning to this project would be, in essence, a vacation... after all, I'd already hammered out the core plot progression, dialogue and thematic elements in the screenplay. It couldn't be easier to simply transpose it to prose...

So I thought. I also decided to quit smoking, and the two goals corresponded. Thus--the roughly 30,000 required took a solid month and it was a damn struggle every day to start up the next section / the next chapter. I'm not sure why, and chalk it up to any one (or all) of the following reasons:

1) quitting smoking and the resultant mental aggitation / depression;

2) finding that the first half was in my "old" voice (i.e. somewhat overwritten) and the subsequent harsh-and-sometimes-agonizing edits that required;

3) the fact that the project already felt somewhat "done" in my head and going back and re-writing it (even if from screenplay to prose) felt like... well... something redundant. Hadn't I already done this before??

...but I struggled through and finished it last friday. There was almost no relief or even pleasure right after completion, like I usually feel after such a project (the former did emerge a day or so later). Only a vague sense of exhaustion. I think that project had lived too long in the gray matter, and had grown somewhat stagnant. Perhaps it's all tied up in the stress of breaking an addiction, because some of the new material came out really quite well, far better than initial visualization or screeplay approximation.

In some ways it's not done done. I have around 4-5,000 words to add, mostly details I skimmed over in the first draft, and a bit of development for one character. And the last 15k words need to be heavily edited and, in some places, re-written. But the skeleton is there. After 10 years, that is one monkey shrugged off the back. Now I just have to do something about the other half-dozen hanging on... :)

[Zoë Sumra]

Congratulations, kuenjato!

[kuenjato]

Congratulations, kuenjato!

Has anyone else felt that sense of utter fatigue/exhaustion upon finishing a first draft? This was really the first time I've ever experienced a sort of despondant "meh" rather than almost hysterical elation.

(that said, when I eventually go and read it all the way through in the next drafting stage, I'm sure that impression will change..)

Currently working on a set of three fantasy short stories, all inter-related and set within a single city. I've never quite tried this sort of project before and it's rather fun.

[Zoë Sumra]

Has anyone else felt that sense of utter fatigue/exhaustion upon finishing a first draft? This was really the first time I've ever experienced a sort of despondant "meh" rather than almost hysterical elation.

Yes, this is completely normal, however many books you've written, and even after finishing later drafts if you're not lucky. Give yourself some mental space by ignoring it and doing something completely different for a minimum of a week. A fortnight is better.

Currently working on a set of three fantasy short stories, all inter-related and set within a single city. I've never quite tried this sort of project before and it's rather fun.

Ooh, enjoy...

[Myrddin]

Has anyone else felt that sense of utter fatigue/exhaustion upon finishing a first draft?

Absolutely.

I had different feelings during the revision process. I wavered between hate and love through most of the re-reads, with the hate coming at different places in draft 3.

I think the "hate" came from frustration. Writing is hard work, and kind of unrewarding at this point beyond my own enjoyment of the story. When I think of the time I've spent and still spend writing, rewriting, researching, and editing, I could've built a thriving business. :blushing:

Yet, here I go, back to working on book 2. ;)

[Zoë Sumra]

I think the "hate" came from frustration. Writing is hard work, and kind of unrewarding at this point beyond my own enjoyment of the story. When I think of the time I've spent and still spend writing, rewriting, researching, and editing, I could've built a thriving business. :blushing:

Had almost exactly this thought earlier... sigh. Current mental problem is how damned long everything takes - if I get through a page of red pen in less than half an hour I'm doing well, and it'll take longer to type it all up afterwards. Satisfying when I'm not in a funk over it, though.

[kuenjato]

Had almost exactly this thought earlier... sigh. Current mental problem is how damned long everything takes - if I get through a page of red pen in less than half an hour I'm doing well, and it'll take longer to type it all up afterwards. Satisfying when I'm not in a funk over it, though.

I've been editing my first novel (initially written in 1997) in the last couple days. I already went through a monster edit earlier this year, slashing around 12k. Starting again, I've already cut a good 600 words from the first two chapters. And it took a good couple of hours to read/re-read/edit approx. 8k words. Gah. It takes far longer to edit than it does to write. Damned depressing sometimes, even though I'll never ever bother to try and sell it. Still, it's a good exercise. Editing always warms up the brain for a serious session in the imagination.

Finished one of the three short stories today. The last sections are very rough, but that's OK. I initially concieved the idea back in 2004 and have scribbled on it occasionally from then. Two more stories to go, with the opening pages already composed. Following through, though... hopefully won't take anywhere near as long :)

[Zoë Sumra]

Head, meet desk.

I'm about two thirds of the way through the red pen (excepting the part early on I need to redo). Something just isn't hanging together about a couple of the chapters - like they should have more connection than they do, or I should do more with them than I have done. Can I figure out what to do with them? Noooo...

Just; aargh.

[Starkess]

Having a little trouble getting anything done. Also torn between going back to edit my first chapter after some good crits, or moving forward with this draft and doing all my editing in one giant blow when I'm finished. Sigh.

[SerNotAppearingOnThisBoard]

Having a little trouble getting anything done. Also torn between going back to edit my first chapter after some good crits, or moving forward with this draft and doing all my editing in one giant blow when I'm finished. Sigh.

As the guy who posted the crit of your first chapter on the writers' board, may I suggest you move on? I've done a fair few crits for friends and I usually suggest they work on their opening chapters only if it seems like they're struggling to find their writing voice. Your voice, on the other hand, I found to be pretty solid, so when in doubt, make a backup copy and move on. You can always come back to it later and sort out the logic problems. :)

===

On my end of things, I completed revisions on chapters 15 and 16 of the first part of my epic fantasy trilogy. Chapter 17 needs to be trimmed drastically, chapter 18 will be split into two chapters with different POVs, then I need to rewrite two chapters in the 20-somethings to accommodate a change in one character's background, and, assuming I can trim about another 10K words in the process of doing this, I'll be done done DONE (with that).

Urban fantasy piece stands at about 16K words. Going slowly, but damned if I don't find myself chuckling as I write. Good times. :D