Mad Men - Season 4 - SPOILERS Thread

[RedEyedGhost]

That's possible. I don't think so though, because the Jentzen campaign that he came up with strikes me as having been set up to fail. Don's failed to convince clients before, but it's usually a misunderstanding (with Conrad Hilton) or the client changing his mind about an idea (with Patio or Bethlehem Steel). This campaign, on the other hand, was exactly what they said they didn't want. I think Don took the opportunity to draw the line in the sand.

Maybe, but it was a great campaign that gave them what they wanted with the huge 'wink' as Don described it. Don also has at times demonstrated the ability to sell snow to an eskimo, and he may have thought that this campaign was good enough (and that made him overly cocky) to make the Janzen people take a chance.

Either way his reaction was brilliant, and I hope it is what sets the tone for this season.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Maybe, but it was a great campaign that gave them what they wanted with the huge 'wink' as Don described it.

I thought it was a fine ad, but it was very much what they did not want. That was clear from their earlier meeting. The 'wink' is exactly how they wanted to avoid.

[RedEyedGhost]

I thought it was a fine ad, but it was very much what they did not want. That was clear from their earlier meeting. The 'wink' is exactly how they wanted to avoid.

They wanted to avoid becoming a virtual girly magazine and playing in the gutter by making their two pieces smaller and smaller. imo, Don's wink versus leer comment was saying 'we're on the curb, but not in the gutter', the Janzen people want to stay on the porch (it's an awful metaphor, but it's late and I need to sleep).

[Lord Mord]

I am always a little bit floored by the insight I find in these threads, especially on the topic of this show. The layers the writers and producers deliberately, and (I suspect sometimes) unsuspectingly weave in and out of every moment give much fodder, I know, but seriously, the analysis here is always so strong. Bravo!

One example: I like the subtlety of the decision to have Don say nothing in the face of Bert's curt redress. Is it vestigial reflex genuflection to his old boss, or is it an honest, internal re-assessment, or is it something else completely? Maybe even a careful suppression of rage, less because he's a boss than because the firm can't afford to come apart at the seams just now? The answer is that it can be any or all of these and, more importantly, that it doesn't really matter which it is. The response, or lack of response, plays.

If I have any criticism of this episode at all, it is sheerly in their trying to cover so many different stories in a single episode. But it doesn't quite cross that line -- it just dances up near it and occasionally sticks a toe out.

Almost every small moment means something, and I love that. I thought that Joan's quiet bucking up of Don after his verbal lashing was important. I got a weird vibe from her talk with Harry -- as though he's gradually (in the interim) become her least favorite boss at SCDP. Please, for the love of God, just go back to your desk and crow to yourself. Some of us have, you know, work to do. I was struck by the mention of "Lane's dentures." Firstly, to call a pompous, important man like Pryce colloquially by his first name seems a bit strong -- a little out of place, but possibly simply a character trait. And then secondly: Lane wears dentures? I mean, anybody might wear dentures, I get that, but it just doesn't seem like the character, especially the way he's played and the way he's made up, really should be wearing them, or at least that anybody would suspect him to do.

And I definitely don't think Don was playing up for an interview with the WSJ when he bawled out the swimwear people. Oh, sure, the campaign was doomed, but I don't think it's because he wanted it to be. I think he was trying to ride that line between pleasing the client and giving them what they legitimately need, and then when it didn't work out, and they were kind of silly and childlike about it, it was simply the final straw.

I'm suddenly reminded of The West Wing, in which there's a budget crisis and a government shutdown on the heels of the Bartlet administration having only just come back to power. The staff is doing everything they know to make Congress the bad guys in the conflict, but they aren't confident in any of their options and dither. Finally, someone calls in "the big guns," meaning the First Lady, and she goes straight to the President and asks him how long it's going to take him to get his "damn government" running again. He explains the situation and she tells him, "Your staff don't know what you want them to do. Do you know what you want them to do?"

Peggy is in a not entirely dissimilar situation when she tells Don, albeit out of a mostly different kind of motivation, that "everybody is here because of you." She's saying, "You've got to step up and lead." When Jantzen goes all wobbly on him, he suddenly recognizes the critical juncture SCDP has reached. Am I going to show everybody that we still don't know our footing, and have to beg table scraps from everyone who gives us ten minutes -- or am I going to show everyone what it is to really have ownership of a business, to have pride and vision?

There was definitely something both genuine and cagey in the moment when Roger says, "Pete'll calm them down," and Don is taken aback and says, "No -- " as in "He can't do that and undo the new vision for this place before it's even taken off" ... And then he goes into the new tirade and really lays into them. If it was all publicity stunt, as in pre-Journal interview workup, then I don't think it would have had as much personal vitriol behind it. He's finding his businessman voice, and Pete making nice with the bad client threatens not only to undo that progress business-wise, but even personally.

[Rockroi]

I thought it was a fine ad, but it was very much what they did not want. That was clear from their earlier meeting. The 'wink' is exactly how they wanted to avoid.

I think Don gave them what they did not want specifically because what they DID want was crap. Don states it when he described to them what they wanted (two women with a girl playing on a beach, etc). That's the problem with the client here: what they want is terrible. Don can GIVE them what they want OR he can make a good ad, and he chose to make a good ad, give them one chance to "see the light" - a "wink" instead of a tug -and if they could see it, great, they have a client; if not, fuck 'em Don is done with people like that.

That's why I think this episode was Don's coming out party. He REALLY IS Don Draper. Don back in season 2 or even season 3 would have said, "Okay, we'll try again" etc. But now? Three people in the span of 4 days told him how amazing he is; he can have any woman he wants; he made the Mop Glow ad; he IS SCDP! He's DON DRAPER! Who the fuck are you again? Some "peaked" bathing suit company who 1) does not know what it wants ("Do you want woman who are going to buy bikinis to buy a two-piece instead or do you want women who buy two pieces to not buy a bikini?" They had no answer; they had never even considered it.) and 2) does not know what it needs! Enough of that CRAP! You had your chance to like the good idea; you did not see it, so I do not have time for you anymore. That's that. You don't like the wink? Than you are not good enough for the wink! YOU FAIL! GET! OUT!

Now, somebody send in Connie Hilton so I can tell him how stupid his ad campaign about the Moon was.

[Arbor Gold]

I like the observation of one reviewer that Don's most comfortable waiting for Betty and Henry to come home, angry that she's screwing him over. It's the one scene where Don knows the role that he's in, what his rights are, what his responsibilities are.

Don had a great line in that scene:

Henry: Don't worry, this is temporary.

Don: Believe me, everybody thinks this is temporary.

It sounded like Henry was referring to the living situation, but Don was referring to the marriage. Ties in nicely with Henry's mom's impressions of Betty.

[Andrik the Unsmiling]

I was struck by the mention of "Lane's dentures." Firstly, to call a pompous, important man like Pryce colloquially by his first name seems a bit strong -- a little out of place, but possibly simply a character trait. And then secondly: Lane wears dentures? I mean, anybody might wear dentures, I get that, but it just doesn't seem like the character, especially the way he's played and the way he's made up, really should be wearing them, or at least that anybody would suspect him to do.

Random bit of knowledge from a not widely read George Orwell novel ("Coming Up for Air")-- for British folks (at least in the 40's) it was very common to just get dentures at some point between 40 and 50. The protagonist of that particular Orwell story starts out as trying to convince himself that he's not really THAT old despite having just got his. So it may be somewhat of a cultural thing, but at one point, at least in Britain, it was almost more a sign of being middle aged than old.

[Guest Raidne]

Don had a great line in that scene:

Henry: Don't worry, this is temporary.

Don: Believe me, everybody thinks this is temporary.

It sounded like Henry was referring to the living situation, but Don was referring to the marriage. Ties in nicely with Henry's mom's impressions of Betty.

My favorite line also. I have a hard time understanding why "I don't want you to owe him anything" Henry would agree to live in Don's house, so I can only surmise that she's really refused to leave, and the only thing he can do if he wants to live with her is live there. And I guess we can also assume that there's no way Henry could afford the house? Don seemed awfully smug when he suggested it.

Also, is it just me, or isn't it kind of a bad idea to boot your kids out of their traditional family home? It's just like Mad Men to make you think, "yeah, screw Betty," when you hear Don's lawyer talking and then, upon reflection, realize that you're thinking like a complete bastard.

[Rockroi]

Almost every small moment means something, and I love that. I thought that Joan's quiet bucking up of Don after his verbal lashing was important. I got a weird vibe from her talk with Harry -- as though he's gradually (in the interim) become her least favorite boss at SCDP. Please, for the love of God, just go back to your desk and crow to yourself. Some of us have, you know, work to do

I took the opposite view, but I can definitely see where you could be right. My take is that Joan actually likes Harry -- that he is a hard worker, that he rose up, legitimately, through the company; that he is easy to work for, and that she can still tease him. OTOH (and in defense of your idea), Joan DOES have a bad memory of Harry; she briefly worked for Harry in S1 or S2 as his #2, was terrific at the job, and Harry did not even consider keeping her on. Moreover, Harry is still sexist towards Joan (coffee and grapefruit juice), so I can see the tension. At the same time, I thought she was playful, not mean towards him, did not brush him off and- for Joan anyway - seemed genuinely pleased that he sold Jai'Lai.

Random bit of knowledge from a not widely read George Orwell novel ("Coming Up for Air")-- for British folks (at least in the 40's) it was very common to just get dentures at some point between 40 and 50. The protagonist of that particular Orwell story starts out as trying to convince himself that he's not really THAT old despite having just got his. So it may be somewhat of a cultural thing, but at one point, at least in Britain, it was almost more a sign of being middle aged than old.

DAMN YOU ANDRIK! I was going to say that! British people are notorious for having poor teeth, bad dental hygiene etc. And as far as calling him by his first name: its a smaller, and therefore less formal office.

And, for the record, I missed Lane a lot this episode, and I LOVED how even when he had screen time it was basically to walk away.

Henry would agree to live in Don's house, so I can only surmise that she's really refused to leave, and the only thing he can do if he wants to live with her is live there. And I guess we can also assume that there's no way Henry could afford the house? Don seemed awfully smug when he suggested it.

I thought the show crystallized that Betty is refusing to leave the home - whether out of spite or comfort (its unclear) -and that she is willfully being obstinate here. Henry even says that he thinks Don is right. I also got the subtext that a Government employee could probably not afford that house and that Don was being MEGA smug about that.

Also, is it just me, or isn't it kind of a bad idea to boot your kids out of their traditional family home? It's just like Mad Men to make you think, "yeah, screw Betty," when you hear Don's lawyer talking and then, upon reflection, realize that you're thinking like a complete bastard.

Once again, the show has a strange way of reminding the viewers that its 1964; children's comfort and well-being was secondary to their parents. Back then, it was perfectly understandable to make a child move because daddy said so. Here? Same thing. And in Don's defense, he IS paying for everything, and in a traditional divorce, they would have had to sell the house anyway. That's life.

[Rhom]

The "temporary" line was one of my favorites as well. I'm trying to figure out just how new this marriage is. Its been 11 months, and when last we saw Betty she was flying off to Vegas and I think the wait for the divorce was three months IIRC.

Didn't we hear last season that Henry's daughter is friends with Jane? I wonder if she might also be friends with Bethany?

Also, who gives presents to kids for Thanksgiving?!!?

[Blaine]

My BIL's in the advertising business and had the exact same reaction. Said that it's his and every ad-man's wet dream to do what Draper did to those bikini prudes. I can also understand the sentiment to an extent, being in the hospitality business.

Don't get me wrong, I've had the satisfaction of "firing" a client. But it's always a much calmer scenario. Something along the lines of "we've really loved working with you, but we feel that this business relationship is at odds between what you're looking for and what we offer here at (agency name). So we want to wish you the best of luck, etc." Hell, I've even given them a name and number of a friend at another agency that might be more in line with what they're looking for. That's one of the things I like about this business. We have the right and often the ability to walk away from clients who either can't figure out what they want or who can't let us do our job (selling their product).

But to actually tell one to get the fuck out of the building, during an initial pitch. That would be amazing. :)

Put me in the camp that says Don knew exactly what he was doing before he walked into that room. Everything about his pitch was combative and aggressive. S1 Don would've worked harder to change their frame of reference, to get them on board with the idea of wink before shoving it in their faces quite like that.

No, Don knew this client wasn't going to work from the first meeting, when they showed a complete lack of understanding exactly what woman they were selling their bikinis (ahem two pieces) to. They weren't being "reserved and chaste" to appeal to her, they were doing it for their own sense of modesty.

So Don had already figured out what his angle was going to be for his public persona. He knew they wouldn't like the ad and he made only a tiny effort to get them on his side. Unlike previous clients, Don didn't even bother with the "I'm not here to tell you about Jesus" theatrics. He just shoved it in their face, called them on their prudishness and kicked him out the door.

Why? Because even if they'd gotten the account (and they were up against everyone else in town in a cattle call), it would've been a struggle to make mediocre advertising that pleased them. In the end, Jantzen was worth much more as a story of how SCDP's mavericky CD threw them out the door for not "getting it."

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

Didn't we hear last season that Henry's daughter is friends with Jane? I wonder if she might also be friends with Bethany?

Henry's daughter is friends with Roger's daughter Margaret, if I remember last year's finale correctly, so she wouldn't necessarily know Jane that well.

[Brandon Stark]

Ass-kicking Don is going to make for a fun season.

[Tears of Lys]

Don't get me wrong, I've had the satisfaction of "firing" a client. But it's always a much calmer scenario. Something along the lines of "we've really loved working with you, but we feel that this business relationship is at odds between what you're looking for and what we offer here at (agency name). So we want to wish you the best of luck, etc." Hell, I've even given them a name and number of a friend at another agency that might be more in line with what they're looking for. That's one of the things I like about this business. We have the right and often the ability to walk away from clients who either can't figure out what they want or who can't let us do our job (selling their product).

But to actually tell one to get the fuck out of the building, during an initial pitch. That would be amazing. :)

Put me in the camp that says Don knew exactly what he was doing before he walked into that room. Everything about his pitch was combative and aggressive. S1 Don would've worked harder to change their frame of reference, to get them on board with the idea of wink before shoving it in their faces quite like that.

No, Don knew this client wasn't going to work from the first meeting, when they showed a complete lack of understanding exactly what woman they were selling their bikinis (ahem two pieces) to. They weren't being "reserved and chaste" to appeal to her, they were doing it for their own sense of modesty.

So Don had already figured out what his angle was going to be for his public persona. He knew they wouldn't like the ad and he made only a tiny effort to get them on his side. Unlike previous clients, Don didn't even bother with the "I'm not here to tell you about Jesus" theatrics. He just shoved it in their face, called them on their prudishness and kicked him out the door.

Why? Because even if they'd gotten the account (and they were up against everyone else in town in a cattle call), it would've been a struggle to make mediocre advertising that pleased them. In the end, Jantzen was worth much more as a story of how SCDP's mavericky CD threw them out the door for not "getting it."

That makes a lot of sense. Once again, experience tells (your working in advertising.)

And yes, ass-kicking DD is kick-ass! Makes me want to smack him around. :P

[Brude]

There's another good reason for Don to fire a client like the two-piece people, I think. SCDP is creating it's image in the business right now, Don even says to Betty, "you have to start thinking more about the image of this agency," or some like that. The image the agency puts out is very much wrapped up in what sort of ads they produce for clients and a small agency like SCDP, that is trying to still make its mark and find a way to say to the world, "here we are, this is why we're special!" needs to show that their ads are different than anyone else. It's like when Chiat Day first hit the scene, they had a rep for doing the most forward thinking, hippest ads in the business and it's a big part of why they became a top agency. They could have given these clients what they wanted and been responsible for just some lame-ass, old fashioned ad, or Don could say, "no, that is not what WE do here at SCDP, that is not the kind of company we are." Companies that want staid, old fashioned ads should go to other agencies, but if you want hip and new and edgy, come to us.

He's branding the agency with his work is a big part of what he's doing, I think. Any clients that don't want to hear that are a waste of his time and the company's money/resources.

[Blaine]

Exactly, Brude.

Ad agencies are built on as much myth as they peddle to clients. It's basic positioning and it works. I've worked at agencies that were known to be soft and accommodating and the clients weren't shy at all about trying to change the creative. It was a weird shift going to an agency where the client was charged MORE and expected to have LESS say in it. But that's why they went there. Because this agency was known as the better, more creative boutique option. They got exactly what they wanted. Sometimes I dealt with the exact same clients, but they behaved totally differently.

That said, every great agency is built on some myth like that. Ogilvy was built on David Ogilvy's know-it-all-ness. DDB was built on Bill Bernach's genius and out there approach. Even today, there's practically a cult built around Alex Bogusky - to the point that people have a hard time believing that Cripsin Porter will survive without him no that he's left.

It makes sense. But it's a risky gamble too. You've got to back it up daily or you'll look equally out of touch when you make mistakes.

[Brude]

All this talk just got me thinking about Frog Hammer, the insane ad agency from Season 2 of the show "Slings & Arrows."

Frog Hammer 1

Frog Hammer 2

Frog Hammer 4

I wonder how a firm like that would have gone over back in the Mad Men days...

[Tears of Lys]

You don't like the wink? Than you are not good enough for the wink! YOU FAIL! GET! OUT!

In other words, "No soup for you!"

;)

[Nichole]

I think the smart move is to give Sally more of the storyline, since her position (dealing with a bully for a mother and a frequently absent unreliable father) is filled with dramatic potential.

I've been a fan of the Sally character since the beginning and love the scene with Betty trying to force feed her the sweet potatoes. I'm glad they have decided to give her character more time. Seeing the sixties from the adult's point of view is fascinating, but I also see it from a child's. I was also impressed by how Bobby was able to make a quip and almost smooth over the awkward situation. I'm wondering if they will play up his character more, it would almost seem he has some of his father's ability to make people like him.

Don had a great line in that scene:

Henry: Don't worry, this is temporary.

Don: Believe me, everybody thinks this is temporary.

It sounded like Henry was referring to the living situation, but Don was referring to the marriage. Ties in nicely with Henry's mom's impressions of Betty.

One of my favorite lines as well. I'm wondering how long writers are going to make their marriage last. I'm curious to see how the writers play up his character, whether he will defer to Betty in the relationship, or become controlling.

And I guess we can also assume that there's no way Henry could afford the house? Don seemed awfully smug when he suggested it.

I was wondering this as well. It almost seems that they were hinting at that Betty didn't get quite what she wanted by marrying Henry. I think she saw him as some knight in shining armor to save her from an unhappy life, but who is he really?

Can't wait for next week, them ending with Tobacco Road seemed to be a great way to make you excited to see more.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I was also impressed by how Bobby was able to make a quip and almost smooth over the awkward situation. I'm wondering if they will play up his character more, it would almost seem he has some of his father's ability to make people like him.

True, although growing up in a situation where you feel like you always have to be smoothing over problems caused by your parents is likely to cause Bobby serious problems later on in life.