Boardwalk Empire

[SwordoftheMorning]

Why is Colismo not wanting to get into bootlegging a problem? Why not just run your operation around him? Why is it necessary to have every boss on board? I mean, if it is such an enormous problem, why wouldn't Colosimo realize he was painting a great big target on the back of his head?

Sounding like DeAngelo Barksdale aren't we ? "We should be able to just do the bizness, without all the bodies"...

Colosimo had to go because he was THE boss in Chicago. Torrio at that time was an underling and Capone was just a soldier. As long as Big Jim was opposed to booze, no Chicago gangster would be able to bootleg. At least on the Italian side. Torrio was also savvy enough to understand that their north side Irish rivals would gain a huge advantage in money, men and guns if they could control booze in the city alone. Colosimo had to die.

[DanteGabriel]

The clean up at the end was a bit unexpected, but it sets things up for things to come. I guess Nucky just has a bit of a soft side for the women.

I suspect the Irish woman is the spitting image of his dead wife.

[Ran]

Kelly MacDonald and Molly Parker look nothing alike, really. It's interesting that they used Molly Parker (Alma from Deadwood), too. According to Terence Winter, we'll have to "wait and see" why they used her. Mo Ryan speculated it's because we'll get flashbacks to before the death of Nucky's wife.

[Tyrellius]

I'm sure they wouldnt use Alma unless we have quite a few flashbacks. Hopefully we'll see more of the relationship between Jimmy and Nucky, as Jimmy has been kissing his ass since he was 12.

Sorta Spoilery IMDB Stuff

Capone and Luciano feature quite heavily in the first few episodes with Lansky being introduced in the last third of the season. Will be cool to see the Young Turks in full swing. Especially when you've got Omar and Jimmy gunning for them! Chalky White character info is extremely sparse, totally fictional or based on someone?

On a side note, Capone (Graham) is drinking in Groucho's tonight and he's well tiny.

[DanteGabriel]

Kelly MacDonald and Molly Parker look nothing alike, really.

Okay, so maybe she sounds like his dead wife, and that's why he commented on her accent. ;)

[Brude]

Why is Colismo not wanting to get into bootlegging a problem? Why not just run your operation around him? Why is it necessary to have every boss on board?

Because he's the boss and what he says, goes. You defy the boss' orders, you're going to get push-back.

I mean, if it is such an enormous problem, why wouldn't Colosimo realize he was painting a great big target on the back of his head?

Because up to this point, that's now how business got done in this world. It's the introduction of bootlegging that brings in the new level of violence, that's a major theme of this show. It's because of the bootlegging that the Capones, the Lucky Lucianos and the Jimmys of the world start to take over, killing off the older, less violent bosses to make their way. It's a new paradigm, and (at least as depicted in this story), the change over comes immediately with Prohibition.

One other thing I wanted to mention. Michael Stuhlbarg is AMAZING as Rothstein. It's hard to believe he's the same guy who starred on the Coens' last movie, "A Serious Man." The characters could not be more different. I also saw him on stage in Hamlet a couple years back, and he was great - it was a radically different interpretation of Hamlet than I've seen in the past. He played him as, well, a nebbishy college student. Somehow it made sense (though I didn't like the final scene, which really fell flat, sadly.)

[delete this account pls]

I (think) this is how it went down;

Colismo (the older Italian gangster from Chicago who loved opera and was whacked at the end) was the big boss in Chicago. Terrio was under him, a lieutennant or something. Capone was Terrio's driver/muscle. When Capone and Jimmy were chatting for the first time, Capone told Jimmy that Colismo wasn't getting into bootlegging. Capone expressed his blatant disbelief and dismay at this, which Jimmy picked up.

So Jimmy and Capone hijack the liquor from Rothstein and Luciano's boys. Terrio buys it, but he probably can't sell it in Chicago without Colismo finding out, so Terrio has Colismo bumped off and presumably becomes boss of Chicago, with a cargo of Canadian Club to fund his takeover.

ETA; oh, it's been pretty thoroughly covered upthread, missed that. D'oh!

[Lord Mord]

So, with the shipment that Nucky was bringing in and was going to pay to Rothstein, what kind of blowback should Nucky expect from its "going astray"? Also, where did Jimmy come up with the money? And is this the first that the gangland has seen of "kicking up" by independent actors? Nucky wasn't expecting it, but I'm not clear if that's just because he doesn't see himself as a gangster, or if it's part of the whole "Prohibition changed everything" meme.

[Ran]

Feasibly, Rothstein and Luciano could blame Nucky. No idea what blowback, if any, will come from it.

Jimmy's money clearly must have come from Terrio, by way of Capone.

I think gangland killings and such were already happening out in Chicago and New York City even before prohibition, but I don't know, it may be a new thing for Atlantic City at this time. Except... his brother and the other cop seemed to have no difficutly murdering Hans Schroeder, so maybe it's not all that new. Or maybe it's the independence, and the inevitability of having to deal with this sort of thing.

[Lord Mord]

Ran,

I think gangland killings and such were already happening out in Chicago and New York City even before prohibition, but I don't know, it may be a new thing for Atlantic City at this time. Except... his brother and the other cop seemed to have no difficutly murdering Hans Schroeder, so maybe it's not all that new. Or maybe it's the independence, and the inevitability of having to deal with this sort of thing.

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear when I used the expression "kicking up." I meant it in the sense of giving the boss a cut of your action. After giving it some more thought, if there are already other fairly organized gangs in New York and Chicago, I would have to suppose this is already generally the case in the gang culture -- I just was struck by how surprised Nucky was by it.

[Tyrellius]

After giving it some more thought, if there are already other fairly organized gangs in New York and Chicago, I

Yep, Luciano was already a leading member of the Five Points Gang in 1916 (at 19 years of age) and suspected of multiple murders already. Nucky knows not with what he fucks with.

"Why don't you let the adults speak?" :rofl:

[oneeye]

I hope we see more of 'Omar', that was a kind of weak intro for him. And flashbacks to 'Alma'.

By the way the midget boxing was kind of funny too.

I guess it will get complicated for a while, with some internal bickering, New York and Chicago issues and of course the Feds in play already.

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

LC:

I think it's more the former; Nucky at the start of the show is more of a corrupt Jersey pol than a mobster. He did have Schroder murdered, but that can be rationalized as violent street justice and/or protection for a woman that he has a soft spot for. That doesn't mean that (at this point) he'd order a hit on somebody who was just standing in his way like Torrio did.

[Original Ned's Bones]

Agree with Caspen to a point.

Loves:

Costuming

Filming

Setting

Story

Casting, including seeing "A Serious Man" in the series.

Not so much:

Dialogue writing - seemed forced....and a lot of lines seemed a bit cliche. The "We're fucking!!!" scene was supposed to be funny but just seemed forced

Acting - There were times when I was removed from the experience and lines were delivered like actors delivering lines, not living the role.

Liked it enough to come back for more.

[delete this account pls]

LC, it's like what Jimmy said to Nucky - he can't be half a gangster anymore. He was surprised that jimmy kicked up a cut because Nucky isn't a crimeboss, as he see's it. He doesn't run a gang. He's a politician and a'legitimate' businessman with a few illicit practices. If someone is caught cheating in his casino they might be beaten, even killed (doesn't he say that if Rothstein wasn't Rothstein he would have been "found in an alley" or something?) but violence is not an inherent part of his business dealings.

From his perspective, he's not the head of a crew, he's a middleman, a facillitator. I bet there's a lot of everyday crime in Atlantic City that Nucky has no part, whereas a straight up gangster would be damnding a cut regardless of their personal involvement.

[SwordoftheMorning]

ok, wait just a fucking minute. Quality of the show aside, do any of you making comments about how Nucky as a corrupt politico in the early 20th century would have some kind of issue with money being kicked up from an underling read any American history ? You all have it backwards, gangsters learned the art of the kickup FROM the politicians of that day and before. Ever hear of Tammany Hall ? The political machines of Boston, Chicago, Philly ? William Hale "Big Bill" Thompson ? If you are gonna make excuses for the inconsistencies in the writing, at least make them realistic.

The only reason I can see Nucky not wanting a pay-off from Jimmy for the booze heist is fearing the retribution from Rothstein and Luciano. The sentiment that he is not a gangster is correct. He is a greedy as fuck corrupt politician with his hand in every pie he can reach. Jimmy gives him his cut unasked for with the idea that this insures he won't fact retribution for from Nucky and his pet police. Which in reality, could be completely untrue. Time will tell.

[delete this account pls]

ok, wait just a fucking minute. Quality of the show aside, do any of you making comments about how Nucky as a corrupt politico in the early 20th century would have some kind of issue with money being kicked up from an underling read any American history ? You all have it backwards, gangsters learned the art of the kickup FROM the politicians of that day and before. Ever hear of Tammany Hall ? The political machines of Boston, Chicago, Philly ? William Hale "Big Bill" Thompson ? If you are gonna make excuses for the inconsistencies in the writing, at least make them realistic.

Dude, calm down. You didn't like the show, but I don't see why your attacking other people who did.

No, I'm not terribly familiar with the dishonest habits of corrupt regional politicians in early 20th century America. Shocking ignorance from someone born and raised in Australia, I know.

And I don't need to make "excuses" for any inconsistencies because I didn't see any. Every issue you've raised has been more than adequately explained.

[Analu]

Loved the opening episode. Thought it was awesome. Nothing else to add. All the nitpicks seem to have been addressed already.

Except people keep talking about how the actor playing Jimmy was great in this film, that film, etc? I'm ashamed to admit I just knew him as the freshman on "Dawson's Creek" (Damn my sisters for making me watch that show with them! Damn them to hell!)

[delete this account pls]

I'm wondering if Stephen Graham (Capone) is going to be a regular guest star. Anyone know? It seemed obvious that Rothstein and Luciano will pop in and out of the show pretty regularly.

[Brude]

I don't think Nucky didn't want the money, he just seemed surprised to get it, if I'm remembering the scene correctly. He even said to Jimmy, "someone offers to give you $1000, you take it," (or something). When Jimmy gave it to him he just asked what it was for. As he stared at the envelope, Jimmy explained it was his cut, he was surprised, but he promptly slid it into his pocket. He didn't have moral qualms about taking the cash, he was just surprised Jimmy would do such a thing to make it. He was realizing in that moment that Jimmy had listened to his advice and made his own opportunity.

Yeah, he's thinking about the ramifications and how he's going to have to deal with Rothstein and Luciano, but as the saying goes, "the money don't know where it came from," and he'd only be worse off for not taking it.